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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006What is the word for the stick & handkerchief carried over a vagrant's shoulder?
What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot handkerchief to? I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick, held over one shoulder, is actually called? What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the stick? What is that handkerchief called? Do these two things they tote about have names? Thanks, Nancy > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Do these two things they tote about have names? Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, either.  SignatureMike. > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, > either. I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe not so much the stick but the belongings anyway. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag> > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I think this is what Australians in particular call a "swag". Maybe not > so much the stick but the belongings anyway. In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience that day, that was swag, too). > In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days > mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to > celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of > esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience > that day, that was swag, too). "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by vendors or sponsors of the convention. -=Eric >> In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days >> mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >vendors or sponsors of the convention. And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by > >vendors or sponsors of the convention. > > And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the > children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags. Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand, nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy". -=Eric > > >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by > > >vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand, > nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy". It's _very_ recent in all but the criminal sense. >>>>"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >>>>vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It's _very_ recent in all but the criminal sense. Not sure what you mean by very recent. OED cites examples of swag meaning of bunches of flowers or fruit to the late 18th century (same for the criminal sense) and the Australian swag to the 19th. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > >>>>"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by > >>>>vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > meaning of bunches of flowers or fruit to the late 18th century (same > for the criminal sense) and the Australian swag to the 19th. What have we been talking about? We have been talking about the extension from 'proceeds of criminal activity' to 'free gift you get for just showing up'. What does that have to do with either bunches of flowers or fruit, or the Australian swag? >> >>>>"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >> >>>>vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >extension from 'proceeds of criminal activity' to 'free gift you get >for just showing up'. "Swag" is certainly a term for the proceeds of criminal activity, but it's perfectly acceptable to use the term to describe non-criminal activity if there is no intent to falsely portray the proceeds as criminally obtained. Halloween candy can be described as "swag", "loot" or "booty" just as you can say "The little buggers held me up for a fistful of candy" without meaning "buggers" in that other sense or "held me up" in the sense of an actual robbery. >What does that have to do with either bunches of flowers or fruit, or >the Australian swag? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>>>>> "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >>>>>>> vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > for a fistful of candy" without meaning "buggers" in that other sense > or "held me up" in the sense of an actual robbery. More recently, "swag", or, for some reason, "shwag", has come to refer to the free loot given to attendees at award ceremonies in the entertainment world and, by extension, at trade shows and the like. > >>>>>>> "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by > >>>>>>> vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > to the free loot given to attendees at award ceremonies in the > entertainment world and, by extension, at trade shows and the like. Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above. -=Eric, who would ordinarily snip them if he weren't proving a point > Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above. Oops, my mistake, it was Peter and I. Sorry 'bout that. -=Eric > > Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above. > > Oops, my mistake, it was Peter and I. Sorry 'bout that. My point, which Tony seems to have missed, is that it's a _recent_ semantic development. >> > Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above. >> >> Oops, my mistake, it was Peter and I. Sorry 'bout that. > >My point, which Tony seems to have missed, is that it's a _recent_ >semantic development. Well, yeah, I suppose I did. Now that I've re-read: "Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee "WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand, "nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy". "It's _very_ recent in all but the criminal sense." I see that you made that point. The only thing left to know is "Why?". Why did you make the point? Of what importance is the point? Does it solve something? Make something clear that was not clear before? Contribute to the understanding of something? What's "_very_ recent", by the way? Tuesday? October, 1998? Did the introduction of use coincide with something that makes the connection _very_ relevant? Tet? Something to do with "Happy Days"? It must be important since it's the subject of a "point", but damned if I can figure out why it's important. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >> > Which is what Tony and I said, lo these many quoted posts above. > >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > It must be important since it's the subject of a "point", but damned > if I can figure out why it's important. A way to figure it out would be to read the last few messages above the one you quoted. October 1998 is a possibility; I'd have put it as "within the last ten years." I was not a "Happy Days" watcher, so whatever triggered that particular synapse is irrelevant. >>>>>>>> "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >>>>>>>> vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >to the free loot given to attendees at award ceremonies in the >entertainment world and, by extension, at trade shows and the like. I wouldn't know. My invitation to the Oscars must have been lost in the mail. I did come home from a trade show with a goodie bag of two ballpoint pens, a 3' tape measure, two koozies, and a letter opener. I don't think the take met the minimum requirement for "swag" even though one of the pens wrote in black, blue, and red. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>More recently, "swag", or, for some reason, "shwag", has come to refer >>to the free loot given to attendees at award ceremonies in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I don't think the take met the minimum requirement for "swag" even > though one of the pens wrote in black, blue, and red. Is it still swag if you have to enter a drawing at the trade show for a chance to get it? (I'd say yes.) If so, I've got you beat running away in the swag department: the IBM ThinkPad that I'm typing this on is a souvenir of LinuxWorld New York 2001. Pretty much Oscar-worthy swag, that. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> >>>>"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >> >>>>vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > What does that have to do with either bunches of flowers or fruit, or > the Australian swag? In centuries past, perhaps before the invention of the getaway car, criminals -- burglers in particular -- are portraied as carrying misappropriated tangible personal property in a bundle or bag or some sort. Could this be a connection? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Eric Schwartz filted: >> >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >> >vendors or sponsors of the convention. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand, >nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy". I got a rock. ....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >Eric Schwartz filted: >>> >"Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >>> >vendors or sponsors of the convention. >>> And, this time of the year in the US, a term to describe what the >>> children bring home in their trick-or-treat bags. >>Hrm, I don't think we ever called it "swag" in eastern Tennessee >>WIWAL. I'm trying to think of what we *did* call it, but offhand, >>nothing leaps to mind. Probably "loot", or simply "candy". >I got a rock. Another word for it is "bindle". Along with this goes another word for the one who steals another's bindle; he is a "bindlestiff". SignatureThis address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 > >Eric Schwartz filted: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > another word for the one who steals another's bindle; > he is a "bindlestiff". I find no evidence of such a meaning. You may be reading it in from the current use of "stiff" as a verb to mean "cheat, swindle". In fact the "stiff" in that compound just means "person". (The term "working stiff" meaning "ordinary working guy" used to be quite common.) So "bindlestiff" just meant a hobo, not a thief. Ross Clark On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com> wrote in message <8764e6h6vn.fsf@localhost.localdomain>: > > In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, and these days > > mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by > vendors or sponsors of the convention. With the folk etymology "Stuff We All Get". SignatureJim Heckman > On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com> > wrote in message <8764e6h6vn.fsf@localhost.localdomain>: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > With the folk etymology "Stuff We All Get". Got one for the phonotactics-violating "shwag"? >> On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com> [...] >>> "Swag" also refers to freebies given to convention attendees by >>> vendors or sponsors of the convention. >> >> With the folk etymology "Stuff We All Get". > > Got one for the phonotactics-violating "shwag"? Sure as shootin'. > > On 26-Oct-2006, Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com> > > wrote in message <8764e6h6vn.fsf@localhost.localdomain>: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Got one for the phonotactics-violating "shwag"? No, but I suppose it could be loosely related to the perhaps recent BrE habit of saying things like "shtreet" for "street" -- I say "perhaps recent" because things have a habit of turning out to be less recent than one thought. Non-criminal "swag", for example: it seems, from Partridge _Hist. Sl._, to have been originally neutral, and perhaps a reference to the bag in which the stuff was carried. I remember that domestic draperies are sometimes arranged in "swags": I believe there's a technical difference between a swag and a flounce or something. The criminal implication seems to have become dominant, but not exclusive: even outside the wonderful world of soft furnishings, late 19-C showmen referred to prizes they offered as "swag" (Partridge). IIUC, the little goodie-bags children now have to be given as a reward for going to somebody's party seem often to be called "swag-bags" in BrE. That matches the US Hallowe'en use somebody mentioned. I fancy that as young adults in the '60s we sometimes referred to presents brought back from holidays as "loot", though not AFAIR "swag". SignatureMike. > > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > > > handkerchief to? > > > Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > > handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > In the US "swag" used to be the fruits of a robbery, What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US? > and these days > mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to > celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of > esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience > that day, that was swag, too). > > > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > > > > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US? I'm not sure we ever had such an institution. A stagecoach might be held up by a "bandit," so maybe that's an equivalent. These days we have "carjackers." > > and these days > > mostly refers to the freebies or "gift bags" that are given to > > celebrities who attend an event, and by further extension, any sort of > > esteemable giveaways (when Oprah gave a car to everyone in her audience > > that day, that was swag, too). >> > > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white >> > > > polka dot [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > What is/was a "highwayman" called in the US? Well, we have had "highway robbery", of course, but it is a rather trite (though not trivial) complaint, primarily made about political corruption. Enron's executives, engaged in it at an astronomical level. I mean, politicians are pikers, compared to that. The term "highwayman" may have been used in the early days, of course. But brigands seem to me to have had their specialties during the era in which we romanticized the trade: bank robbers, stage coach robbers, train robbers. Then there were rustlers and horse thieves. Bandits and outlaws were other terms, before we started calling people "stick-up artists" and "hold-up artists". >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag> Not quite: a swag is very definitely a bedroll as described there. They are much bulkier, as you can see from the thing slung diagonally across this bloke's back: http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/images/SwagFAQ.jpg There might be some clothes and other small belongings inside it, but bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately as in the picture. -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately > as in the picture. "Take your bed and wok":-) >>><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag> >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "Take your bed and wok":-) It's all clear to me now... SignatureMike Wright http://www.raccoonbend.com > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > bulkier things like a billy or frying pan are usually carried separately > as in the picture. I coincidentally learned the word bedroll yestereven for the first time in my life reading Lonesome Dove. They carried it around on their horses. I think I know what it looks like without having to verify it in Google Images. It's sort of like a sushi role or a tootsie role, I'd say. > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > in Google Images. It's sort of like a sushi role or a tootsie role, I'd > say. Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and "Tootsie Roll" that way? >>>>> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the >>>>> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and > "Tootsie Roll" that way? An unwritten rule of this group is that we do not question other participants' sexual preferences. [...] > > I coincidentally learned the word bedroll yestereven for the first time > > in my life reading Lonesome Dove. They carried it around on their [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and > "Tootsie Roll" that way? Shirley he was talking about the role that toes play in squishing the sushi into the blankets. /dps > [...] > > > I coincidentally learned the word bedroll yestereven for the first time [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Shirley he was talking about the role that toes play in squishing the > sushi into the blankets. Dustin Hoffman made sushi? And don't call me Shirley. > > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Having learned the word "bedroll," why would you spell "sushi roll" and > "Tootsie Roll" that way? I thought it would be more likely that there wouldn't be a space or a hyphen and I was too lazy to think about whether or not I should capitilize tootsie and roll. > > > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > hyphen and I was too lazy to think about whether or not I should > capitilize tootsie and roll. You wrote "sushi role" and Tootsie Role," thus spawning a spate of unfortunate puns. > > > > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > > > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > You wrote "sushi role" and Tootsie Role," thus spawning a spate of > unfortunate puns. Oh role and not roll. > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > in Google Images. It's sort of like a sushi role or a tootsie role, I'd > say. Need to be careful with this, and judge from context what's being referred to. Among the non-swaggie classes, a "bedroll" would have been a purpose-made heavy canvas cover, sometimes with a mackintosh lining, and fastened with straps, in which one's bedding was, indeed, rolled for travel. It was an indispensable possession in various outposts of empire and elsewhere back then. SignatureMike. > > > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the > > > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > -- > Mike. I'm pretty sure I read the word oilroll in Lonesome Dove yesterday. Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check the book for the correct word. > I'm pretty sure I read the word oilroll in Lonesome Dove yesterday. > Something about how Lorena backed people's stuff (like clothing) in an > oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check > the book for the correct word. It's probably toilet paper and paper towels. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=oilroll >> > > > In article >> > > > <1161895531.167689.313220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > oilroll. I'll research the word now and if I can't find it, I'll check > the book for the correct word. I am not sure about this, but I think that the "oilroll" (a new term for me) was an oilcloth, which was used as a tarpaulin for a leanto, a slicker (over the head and shoulders in a rainstorm), the base for the bedding on the ground, and to protect and contain bedding, leathers, and other personal items for the horseman (or sailor, etc). It was usually made of a kind of duck or sailcloth embedded with oil (later rubberized) to impede the entry of damp or rain, etc. http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-oilcloth.html Heavier materials could be used to make a floor or wall covering. Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth". > >> > > > In article > >> > > > <1161895531.167689.313220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the > everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth". That's it. It was Dish Boggett who packed extra clothes in the aforemention oilcloth, so he therefore had dry clothes (on page 290). The group camped out to ride out a bad storm, so everybody is packing up now, so I confused who is packing what. [...] > >> Need to be careful with this, and judge from context what's being > >> referred to. Among the non-swaggie classes, a "bedroll" would have [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > made of a kind of duck or sailcloth embedded with oil (later rubberized) > to impede the entry of damp or rain, etc. "Oilskin" in these parts. The cloth was treated with boiled linseed oil, which dries out. Oilskin smocks and overtrousers were standard gear at sea. Barbour make, or made, waxed smocks in a yellowish colour in imitation. > http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-oilcloth.html > > Heavier materials could be used to make a floor or wall covering. > > Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the > everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth". I remember that horrible but practical stuff: always seemed to have flowers printed on it. A sort of plastic film on one side, and cloth on the reverse. It wasn't the same as oilskin, but I suppose its ancestor was: certainly everybody called it "oilcloth". SignatureMike. >>> > > > In article >>> > > > <1161895531.167689.313220@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >Even after the beginning of the vinyl age, with decorator prints, the >everyday tablecloth was still called "oilcloth". FWIW, I remember that well. SignatureCharles Riggs >>I am not sure about this, but I think that the "oilroll" (a new term >>for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > FWIW, I remember that well. I looked in my pantry. Don't have the vinyl-covered stuff any longer. Just a plastic one for just-in-case. "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote... >> > >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the >> > >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > and fastened with straps, in which one's bedding was, indeed, rolled > for travel. That's an fairly good discription of what's called a "swag" among the car-camping classes here in Oz John. >> Good question. But I'm afraid the stick is just a stick, and the >> handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swag> Colloquially known as his 'matilda'; and the stick is not carried over the shoulder, but carried like a walking stick so it's at the ready to dispatch any snake that poses a danger. In hard times, the snake may become dinner. SignatureJohn Savage (my news address is not valid for email) >> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >> handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >handkerchief/kerchief/bandana/piece of cloth has no special name, >either. Bindle? a small bundle of items rolled up inside a blanket and carried over the shoulder or on the back; a bedroll. Not a cloth on a stick, but the word is associated with tramps. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks, > Nancy I think it's called a 'pike'. > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick, > held over one shoulder, is actually called? I think it's called a 'pike'. Yup. See #3 below. > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the > stick? > What is that handkerchief called? Poke? > Do these two things they tote about have names? > Thanks, > Nancy Main Entry:6pike Pronunciation:* Function:noun Inflected Form:-s Etymology:Middle French pique, from piquer to prick, pierce, nettle, pique, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin piccare, from (assumed) piccus woodpecker, from Latin picus * more at PIE 1 : a weapon consisting of a long wooden shaft with a pointed steel head sometimes having a hook or pick on the side and used by the foot soldier until superseded by the bayonet 2 obsolete : PIKEMAN 3 : the sharp-tipped staff on which a flag is carried *carried on a pike 9 feet, 10 inches long including the spear tip W.F.Harris* Also: 5 dialect England : one of various sharp-pointed tools or implements (as a pitchfork) *the windrows are loaded on a wagon by hand with a pike F.D.Smith & Barbara Wilcox* As we all stood and listened, UC sung the following words: > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka > > dot handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > (as a pitchfork) *the windrows are loaded on a wagon by hand with a > pike F.D.Smith & Barbara Wilcox* This is incredible even for you. Your cited dictionary entry does not at any point include the definition you claim it does! It is also considered appropriate to state your source when quoting material written by others. Especially when it's copyrighted. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, UC sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > This is incredible even for you. Your cited dictionary entry does not > at any point include the definition you claim it does! Yes, #3 a sharp-tipped stick on which a flag is carried. I suppose the 'flag' could also be a bag without forcing the issue too far. I'm not an expert, just trying to help. > It is also considered appropriate to state your source when quoting > material written by others. Especially when it's copyrighted. > > -- > A. Gwilliam > To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > pique, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin piccare, from (assumed) piccus > woodpecker, from Latin picus * more at PIE A more plausible explanation of the Romance 'pike'-nouns was given by G.-G. Nicholson in one of the early volumes of _Revue de Linguistique Romaine_ (sorry I don't have the exact reference). N. postulated that Latin <exspi:ca:re> 'to remove (grain) from the ear' became in Vulgar Latin *expicare, whence *pica 'ear of grain' was extracted (in some dialects *picus, and *picca where 'ear of grain' had been Lat. *spicca var. of <spi:ca>), and generalized in the sense 'pointed object'. If your woodpecker-etymology above is followed, each of the Romance lgs. with some variant of this noun must have independently back-formed it from the verb. > [...] >What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Thanks, >Nancy Together, the stick and bundle make a "bindlestiff". I'm not sure whether the component parts have names beyond "stick" and "bundle" SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Together, the stick and bundle make a "bindlestiff". I'm not sure > whether the component parts have names beyond "stick" and "bundle" No, the stick and bundle ('bindle') make a part of the accoutrements of a bindlestiff, who is the entire hobo or tramp himself. >>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >>handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Together, the stick and bundle make a "bindlestiff". I'm not sure >whether the component parts have names beyond "stick" and "bundle" No, the "bindlestiff" is the person with the bindle. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:39:55 GMT, Nancy Pi Squared <weirdlinks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in <news:15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.dlg@40tude.net> in alt.usage.english,alt.english.usage,sci.lang: > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & > white polka dot handkerchief to? > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found > what that stick, held over one shoulder, is actually > called? > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond > ties to the stick? > What is that handkerchief called? > Do these two things they tote about have names? A bundle containing his clothes and possessions is called a 'bindle', whence the term 'bindlestiff' for a tramp who carries such a bundle. Brian > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:39:55 GMT, Nancy Pi Squared > <weirdlinks@sbcglobal.net> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > 'bindle', whence the term 'bindlestiff' for a tramp who > carries such a bundle. I was thinking "boodle"? In our last episode, <15mmac01pmiwu.11q9lf7q4vky3$.dlg@40tude.net>, the lovely and talented Nancy Pi Squared broadcast on alt.usage.english: > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? bindle, hence, bindle-stiff for hobo. > I can google 'till the cows come home but I haven't found what that stick, > held over one shoulder, is actually called? > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the > stick? > What is that handkerchief called? > Do these two things they tote about have names? > Thanks, > Nancy SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner> At the touch of love, everyone becomes a poet. --Plato > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What is that handkerchief called? For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick. > > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm I wish I'd held my peace now! "Bindle" and relatives are wonderful. But OED says merely "US and Canadian slang...A bundle containing clothes and possessions, esp. a bedding-roll carried by a tramp. Hence bindle-man, -stiff, a tramp who carries such a bundle." > In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack > of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick. No stick that I've ever heard of; and there'd be no advantage in carrying a blanket-roll on the end of a stick. The bundle on a stick was strictly fairy-story stuff for me, and I never saw the logic of it. SignatureMike. >>> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >>> handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > carrying a blanket-roll on the end of a stick. The bundle on a stick > was strictly fairy-story stuff for me, and I never saw the logic of it. Over the course of a day it's easier to bear the weight on top of the shoulder than by carrying it in one's hand. Presumably a knapsack (rucksack, backpack) wasn't available or affordable. [...] > > I wish I'd held my peace now! "Bindle" and relatives are wonderful. But > > OED says merely "US and Canadian slang...A bundle containing clothes [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > shoulder than by carrying it in one's hand. Presumably a knapsack > (rucksack, backpack) wasn't available or affordable. With the stick, you still have to use your hand, though I agree it isn't bearing much of the weight. As for swaggies, well, the blanket roll was classically slung on the back with rope, string, or strap. SignatureMike. >> > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >> > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >carrying a blanket-roll on the end of a stick. The bundle on a stick >was strictly fairy-story stuff for me, and I never saw the logic of it. http://www.lausd.k12.ca.us/Belmont_HS/mice/bindle.html SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Harlan Messinger filted: >> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >> handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack >of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick. "Tuckerbag" and "swag" may also be, respectively, the "kit" and "caboodle" one often hears of.... In Japanese, the handkerchief is called "furoshiki", and wrapping up things for carrying is just one of many uses for it....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >> What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >> handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >In Australia, a swagman carries his swag (bedroll) and tuckerbag (sack >of food), but I don't know if either is on a stick. There are a variety of terms for the burden: From http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/October_2004/Shiralee.html : drum, swag, bundle, curse, matilda, shiralee, parcel, turkey, donkey, national debt, and bluey. More on matilda: http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/May_99/index.html (Select no. 2.) SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > There are a variety of terms for the burden: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > (Select no. 2.) Thanks for that, Richard. I remember having heard about the German connection before, but hadn't seen it in such a detailed form. There was also a school of thought that it wasn't originally "Matilda", but "mit Hilda". "Auf die Walze gehen mit Hilda"? Rey said he wasn't familiar with anything like that as an idiom, so maybe that puts the kibosh on it, or else it was extremely obscure to begin with. Maybe a Tanundadeutsch original? -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au [...] > More on matilda: > > http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/ozwords/May_99/index.html > > (Select no. 2.) I like the line elsewhere in that issue that reads, "they changed the original p sound to an f, but did they use an F? Not on your nelly!-they used a V and pretended that it made an effish sound" /dps <snip> > For US hobo terminology, see "bindle", "bindle stick", "bindle stiff" at > > http://www.hobonickels.org/alpert04.htm I've also heard "bindle" used to refer to a little piece of paper folded into a sort of envelope, for carrying small quantities of cocaine, methamphetamine, or other such powdery substances. SignatureOdysseus > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > What about the little handkerchief that the same vagabond ties to the > stick? A bindlestiff or bindlepike. > What is that handkerchief called? A bindle. > Do these two things they tote about have names? > Thanks, > Nancy >What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >handkerchief to? Bindlestiff? It's not in my dictionary, but it's the word that comes to mind. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >>handkerchief to? > >Bindlestiff? > >It's not in my dictionary, but it's the word that comes to mind. The man, not the bindle that he carries. From the poem "Bindlestiff" by Edwin Ford Piper: The mesh of leafy branches rustled loud, Into the road slid Bindlestiff. Youve seen The like of the traveller: gaunt humanity In stained and broken coat, with untrimmed hedge 35 Of rusty beard and curling sunburnt hair; His hat, once white, a dull uncertain cone; His leathery hands and cheeks, his bright blue eyes That always see new faces and strange dogs; His mouth that laughs at life and at himself. and another verse that speaks of the bindle: Bindlestiff topped a hillock, against the sky 55 Showed stick and bundle with his extra shoes Jauntily dangling. Bird to bird once more Made low sweet answer; in the wild rose cups The bee found yellow meal; all softly moved The white and purple morning-glory bells 60 As on the gently rustling hedgetop leaves The suns face rested. Bindlestiff was gone. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot >>>handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >The man, not the bindle that he carries. I think my knowledge of it came from "A canticle for Leibowitz". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks, > Nancy I always thought it was that proverbial "knapsack" (on my back). >From The Happy Wanderer: I love to go a-wandering, Along the mountain track, And as I go, I love to sing, My knapsack on my back. TOF [...] > I always thought it was that proverbial "knapsack" (on my back). > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And as I go, I love to sing, > My knapsack on my back. knapsacks (and rucksacks -- ruck is from the German for "back" -- as in anatomy) represent a higher standard of living than hobos usually have. Hobos would tend to have few belongings (most of their clothes are being worn), and few commercial products for carrying them. Hence taking a scrap of fabric (which may also be their blanket or poncho, 2 uses makes the value higher), and tying everything up in it. Without a built-in strap, you either rig something like a gunsling from scraps of rope or a belt, or you hang it from a stick long enough that a light touch with your hand has the leverage to balance the heavier bundle behind (as in the posted picture, although a front view would be nice). A few hobos might have a suitcase salvaged from some dump or garbage bin, but once the handle broke off, it wouldn't be any fun to carry, and even with the handle it would be a pain if you had to walk very far. A hobo who rode the rails might keep it longer than one who was on foot. /dps > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? myth. GFH > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Do these two things they tote about have names? The bundle may be called a bindle. The whole deal with the bindle on a stick may be called a bindlestiff. The online MW says a bindlestiff is a hobo who carries a bindle. But in the book _A Canticle for Liebowitz_, the term bindlestiff is clearly used to denote the bindle-and-stick combination (it was part of the habit of the Liebowitzian monks). Gerry > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Do these two things they tote about have names? > Thanks, Nancy In the Australian song, "Waltzing Matilda," the word "matilda" refers to the bundle carried by a hobo. "Swag" refers to his bedroll. Felicity > What is the stick called that a vagrant ties the red & white polka dot > handkerchief to? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks, > Nancy I forgot it. I just typed in "runaway slave" in Google Images and got "stick-bundle" and then from that, I typed in stick bundle, and on the first page got a cartoon drawing of vagrants carrying their belongings with a cloth tied around a stick and a caption that said "bundle on a stick." I checked up to page 3 and didn't see any other drawings. http://historyproject.ucdavis.edu/khapp.php?Min=66 There might be another word for it? Unless stick-bundle is the word I forgot? |
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