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Punctuation question

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BillB - 31 Oct 2006 10:30 GMT
Hi,

I'm hoping the experts here can settle a dispute. Is the following sentence
correctly punctuated? If not, please tell me the correct punctuation.
Thanks!

John is full of sh.t, anyway, so why even respond?
Robert Lieblich - 31 Oct 2006 12:21 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> John is full of sh.t, anyway, so why even respond?

It's not incorrect, but it would be equally correct with the first
comma omitted, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people defended the
omission of both commas.

English punctuation is nowhere near as settled as people think it is.

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Bob Lieblich
More than a little unsettled himself

UC - 31 Oct 2006 15:01 GMT
> > Hi,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Bob Lieblich
> More than a little unsettled himself

I would probably punctuate it thus:

John is full of sh.t anyway, so why even respond?
georgeh@ankerstein.org - 31 Oct 2006 15:05 GMT
> > > Hi,
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> John is full of sh.t anyway, so why even respond?

I would leave "anyway" out of the sentence.  It adds nothing
to the sentence, other than complications.  But, yes, you have
presented the correct punctuation.

GFH
Bob Cunningham - 31 Oct 2006 15:26 GMT
[...]

> English punctuation is nowhere near as settled as people think it is.

Better make that "some people".
Adrian Bailey - 31 Oct 2006 21:11 GMT
> > Hi,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> comma omitted, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people defended the
> omission of both commas.

What he said.

Adrian
Eric Walker - 31 Oct 2006 21:51 GMT
> Is the following sentence correctly punctuated?
>
>"John is full of sh.t, anyway, so why even respond?"

Very often, at least with punctuation, "correct" does not mean "not in
overt error" but "truly presenting the intended thought"; thus, whether
that sentence is "correctly" punctuated depends on what it is supposed
to convey.

As it stands, the comma pair sets off the phrase "anyway" as a
parenthetical comment--almost the equivalent of writing " John is full
of sh.t (anyway) so why even respond?"

While that does meet the first test for parenthetical material--can the
material be dropped without rendering the sentence ungrammatical or
meaningless?--it leaves one wondering whyever that "anyway" is being
isolated.

Thay "anyway" is plainly a so-called "sentence adverb" modifying the
clause "John is full of sh.t": think of the sentence as reduced to
"John is full of sh.t[,] anyway."  We would want a comma only if there
is some reason to set off the adverb as wanting quite a special
emphasis, as "He acted, promptly" would be distinguished from the much
more common "He acted promptly."

Setting off "anyway" in that manner in the subject sentence seems
neither sensible nor idiomatic, even if not "incorrect" in a technical
sense.  A casting that seems much more likely to represent the intended
thought would be:

"John is full of sh.t anyway, so why even respond?"
BillB - 31 Oct 2006 22:18 GMT
>> Is the following sentence correctly punctuated?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> "John is full of sh.t anyway, so why even respond?"

I was taking your position exactly (although you said it much better than I
ever could). What worries me is that I have posted this on three usage
forums and several people have said the first comma should be there. I can't
for the life of me figure out why.
Eric Walker - 31 Oct 2006 22:52 GMT
[...]

> I was taking your position exactly (although you said it much better than I
> ever could). What worries me is that I have posted this on three usage
> forums and several people have said the first comma should be there. I can't
> for the life of me figure out why.

Dr. Johnson once famously explained to an inquiring lady his
mis-definition of the word _pastern_: "Ignorance, Madam, pure
ignorance."
 
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