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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006What's so funny about "Proud to Produce"?
Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? henk.rheber...@dsm.com wrote: > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > agricultural production I don't think so.. > and that one would therefore be wise not to use > the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial > manufacturing? I don't see any problem with it. > Or does this depend on the target audience? Perhaps > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to > use > the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial > manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? No. The verb, "produce", is neutral, referring to the act of manufacture, assembly or natural vegetable or animal growth and reproduction (growing, raising). The noun, "produce", is used to refer to fresh agricultural product (vegetables, just in case one begins to think of manure, which is the end product of digestion). Of course, the result of almost any human endeavor (politics, lying, inventing, writing) is a product. "Produce, produce, produce" (v.) was an urging that I frequently heard as a civil service employee. That meant that we should struggle to complete paperwork, sums, and other data to satisfy the needs of the public (via the particular bureaucrat whose a.s was on the line). Time on the telephone, too long a time on breaks, cut into that product(n.). There are many dictionaries online ( www.m-w.com ) are good sources. The pronunciation and syllable stress are clearly different when shifting from verb to noun. > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use > the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial > manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? I would use a different wording, as "Proud to Produce" sounds awkward, at least to my British ears. "Produce" has a variety of meanings, including agricultural production, but also including the production of semen during sexual intercourse. Although any self-respecting male is rightly proud of the quality and quantity of his production in this sense, the phrase with this possible misinterpretation is not appropriate for your industrial conference. Jokesters, and sometimes the Press, are quick to latch on to these things. As an alternative, I suggest "Pride in Manufacturing". Richard Chambers Leeds UK. > > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > As an alternative, I suggest "Pride in Manufacturing". I agree that this is a nice slogan, but I don't see anything wrong with "Proud to Produce" in itself. > Richard Chambers Leeds UK. >> > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with >> > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >I agree that this is a nice slogan, but I don't see anything wrong with >"Proud to Produce" in itself. The awkwardness of "Proud to Produce" seems to come from the use of the infinitive. For instance, "Proud to Manufacture" also seems awkward. A simple change to "Pride in Production" would sound smoother. ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > >> > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > >> > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > seems awkward. A simple change to "Pride in Production" would > sound smoother. I guess it depends on the context, and what they are trying to emphasize.. UC schreef: > I guess it depends on the context, and what they are trying to > emphasize.. They are trying to emphasize that the manufacturing units of the (chemical) company in question have every reason to be proud of their work because this work has resulted in production processes that are extremely efficient and safe, and as such has greatly contributed to the company's performance, including its financial performance. > The awkwardness of "Proud to Produce" seems to come from the use > of the infinitive. For instance, "Proud to Manufacture" also > seems awkward. And specifically, they seem awkward because these verbs are normally used transitively. "Proud to Produce" wants an object -- proud to produce *what*? > A simple change to "Pride in Production" would sound smoother. Agreed.  SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | It is never good to adapt the design to the software; msb@vex.net | it should be the other way around. --J.A. Durieux >> The awkwardness of "Proud to Produce" seems to come from the use >> of the infinitive. For instance, "Proud to Manufacture" also [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Agreed. If the business is distant from Hollywood so confusion is not likely, changing the emphasis from the outcome to the mover and shaker: "Proud to be Productive" "Proud to be a Producer" "Proud to be in Production" SignatureFrank ess > Mark Brader wrote: >>> The awkwardness of "Proud to Produce" seems to come from the use [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "Proud to be a Producer" > "Proud to be in Production" The more I read the contributions to this thread, the more I rate the original "Proud to Produce" as unsatisfactory. There is the point that David Hatunen made about "produce" being a verb that is used transitively. It needs an object. Then there is the point that Frank ess made above (actually contradicting his conclusion) that "Producer" might be mistaken for a worker in the film industry. That is not all that "produce" might be mistaken for. A magician produces a rabbit from his hat. A farmer produces crops. My own example involving semen, higher up the thread, is another type of production. A breastfeeding mother produces milk for her baby. When you go to the doctor with a cough, the first thing he asks you is whether the cough is productive, i.e. does it bring up catarrh, or is it a dry cough? Smith was not going to pay the fine imposed by the court, and produced the money only when the bailiffs arrived. And a host of other meanings for "produce". The word is insufficiently precise. "Pride in Manufacture", although arguably not quite grammatical, is suitable for a slogan and is what I recommend. Not only is "manufacture" a more precise word than "production", but it has positive connotations. A skilled artisan takes a pride in the *quality* of what he is manufacturing, as well as its quantity. Using the alternative of "production" conveys, at least to me, quantity only. It is non-committal about quality. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. Dick Chambers: > There is the point that David Hatunen made about "produce" being a > verb that is used transitively. Off by one. SignatureMark Brader | "Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember Toronto | the exact instant when I realized that a large part msb@vex.net | of my life... was going to be spent in finding | mistakes in my own programs." -- Maurice Wilkes In the US, "produce" is a noun that means fruits and vegetables in general -- usually in the context of grocery stores -- but in that context I've always heard it pronounced "PRO-duce," with a long O and a strong emphasis on the first syllable. The verb form meaning "to make something" is "pruh-DUCE." > "Produce" has a variety of meanings, including > agricultural production, but also including the production of semen during > sexual intercourse. Now that's one I've never heard in the US, though I suppose that euphemisms and slang terms related to that region of the body and its functions are near infinitely prone to regionalism, age-group and in-group jargon, etc. All in all, to my American ears there's nothing funny or titillating about "Proud to Produce." Crass sloganeering maybe; but my hypothesis is that if it makes you either blush or giggle you Ain't From Around Here. Cheers, --Joe >Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with >agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use >the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial >manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? Just about anything can be "produced" nowadays. I've heard banks advertising their "products". I think by this they mean their customers' accounts. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > Just about anything can be "produced" nowadays. > > I've heard banks advertising their "products". I think by this they > mean their customers' accounts. Rather, the types of accounts customers can sign up for (e.g., checking accounts, savings accounts, money market accounts). A banks products will also typically include certificates of deposit, and various types of loans and mortgages. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Whatever it is that the government 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |does, sensible Americans would prefer Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that the government do it to somebody |else. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Just about anything can be "produced" nowadays. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >products will also typically include certificates of deposit, and >various types of loans and mortgages. Still sounds odd to me. They don't actally "produce" them, so they? I would have thought they were services rather than products, but i suppose it coes with the trend towards calling customers "consumers", which I've heard being used in contexts where they not only consume bank accounts, but also traffic laws. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> Just about anything can be "produced" nowadays. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > being used in contexts where they not only consume bank accounts, but also > traffic laws. It's common in financial services to talk about products. Insurance policies and annuities are products. I expect it's jargon they picked up in the B-School while earning their MBAs. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. > It's common in financial services to talk about products. Insurance > policies and annuities are products. I think they do it because, deep down, they're insecure about the fact that they obviously don't actually create anything. -=Eric > > It's common in financial services to talk about products. Insurance > > policies and annuities are products. > > I think they do it because, deep down, they're insecure about the fact > that they obviously don't actually create anything. I think that's right: and I don't think it a coincidence that the usage seems to have become general as manufacturing industries, and hence the number of those who might deride it, declined. It also disguises the reality that if a financial service has a "product", it's money: customers don't much like being reminded that banks and insurance companies have to make a profit. SignatureMike. Evan Kirshenbaum: >> [Banks' producets are] the types of accounts customers can sign up for >> (e.g., checking accounts, savings accounts, money market accounts)... Steve Hayes: > Still sounds odd to me. They don't actally "produce" them, so they? > > I would have thought they were services rather than products... Well, you might say they "produce" them when they design the particular service. SignatureMark Brader "...out of the dark coffee-stained mugs of Toronto insane programmers throughout the world..." msb@vex.net -- Liam Quin "Or their bosses..." -- Steve Summit > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use > the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial > manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? There is nothing odd about "Proud to Produce," nor is it in any way associated with agriculture. > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use > the slogan "Proud to Produce" for a conference on industrial > manufacturing? Or does this depend on the target audience? I think you have mixed the noun and verb. "Produce", as a noun, is strongly related to agricultural products. And, note that the noun is pronounced PRO-duce while the verb, pro-DUCE. GFH > > Is it true that the verb "produce" is strongly associated with > > agricultural production and that one would therefore be wise not to use [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is strongly related to agricultural products. And, note that the > noun is pronounced PRO-duce while the verb, pro-DUCE. So much problem.... Just change it to 'Pride and Prejudice'. SignatureSolo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com snip 'Proud' by itself. It is often funny to see how much Americans struggle to be proud of something. They are all the time telling each other that they could, would, or should be proud of something. They must have deep-seated inferiority complexes, and be in constant need of reassurance, Jan > snip > 'Proud' by itself. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Jan Why do you say "They"? Do you think you are not speaking directly to us in your Usenet posts? Do you suffer from deep-seated cowardice and tremble in constant fear of confrontation? Never mind. I withdraw my response to your supercilious, mean-spirited troll. SignatureFrank ess > > snip > > 'Proud' by itself. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > us in your Usenet posts? Do you suffer from deep-seated cowardice and > tremble in constant fear of confrontation? You never noticed the phenomenon? Jan |
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