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GONE PHISHING

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Fred Goodwin, CMA - 13 Nov 2006 19:07 GMT
GONE PHISHING

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing

Opinion
James J. Kilpatrick
Sun Nov 12, 8:25 PM ET

One of the many glories of the English language is that it grows even
faster than crabgrass. As a prime example, take the verb "to phish."
Take it away. Take it far away!

One learns from Google that "to phish," clumsily defined, is "the act
of sending an e-mail to a user falsely claiming to be an established
legitimate enterprise in an attempt to scam the user into surrendering
private information that will be used for identity theft."
Unbelievably, Google reports 622,000 hits on this phatuous coinage.

For example, in March 2005, The New York Times reported: "On E-Bay,
E-Mail Phishers Find a Well-Stocked Pond." A month later, U.S. Law Week
reported from Virginia that Gov. Mark Warner had signed a bill to
prohibit phishing, i.e., "using a computer to fraudulently gather
information of another." This past April, USA Today reported that
professional phishers have moved from preying upon big phish to plying
their wily arts upon little phish. It is phutile to complain. Stop
phussing!

And apropos of fussing: A clipping comes to hand from the Waco (Texas)
Tribune-Herald about Rep. Bob Barr. When he learned that the U.S. Army
was recognizing Wicca as a religion on a par with Judaism and
Christianity, "he went into the hissiest of fits." The Dictionary of
American Regional English dates "hissy" from the 1930s and "hissy-fit"
from 1976, with citations ranging from Virginia to Texas. For the
record, Google has recorded 765,000 cites for "hissy" and its
derivatives. Also, for the record, the tirade of a brazen woman is a
hussy-hissy.

A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a clipping
from The Times about a woman who confessed to an aversion to doctors:
"Thank goodness," she said, "the NHS is too skint for home visits." Too
skint? Only three of my dictionaries ever heard of it, but Google has
recorded 1,400,000 cites. One who is skint is "poor, broke, hard up,
out of funds, in the red, on the rocks." My ear picks up a faint echo
of "skinny, skin-flint, skin and bones." Maybe "skint" is a cousin to
"scant." I would leave this one in London.

In her recently published memoir, "Garlic and Sapphires," Ruth Reichl
recounts an unwelcome incident in the life of a restaurant critic. She
accepted an invitation from an admiring reader to join him for dinner
at the famed Lespinasse in New York. The food was wonderful, but her
boorish host was not: He engaged in "some unwelcome knee frottage."

Contrary to instant surmise, it turns out that "frottage" is only a
semi-dirty word. The noun's first definition, disarmingly, is "the
technique of creating a design or image by rubbing over an object
placed under a paper." The second definition -- the one that defines
the incident at Lespinasse -- is "the act of obtaining sexual
stimulation by rubbing against a person or object." The gurus of Google
have tallied 263,000 hits on "frottage," but they cannot say which of
the two definitions drew the majority vote.

(I had begun work on a limerick in which the fifth and final line would
rhyme "frottage" with "cuisine not meant for a cottage" and
"Lespinasse's incomparable pottage," when a Voice of Experience cried,
"Look it up!" Sure enough, "frottage" is pronounced "frah-tazh." At
Lespinasse, it could not be otherwise.)

Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a line
attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his competitors
"are not going to bogart me," i.e., they were not going to steal his
stuff. To my surprise, the verb dates from 1966, a decade after the
actor's death. Since then, "to bogart" has racked up 4,810,000 Googles.
That's impressive, but that's how time goes by.
nancy13g@verizon.net - 13 Nov 2006 19:35 GMT
> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a line
> attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his competitors
> "are not going to bogart me," i.e., they were not going to steal his
> stuff. To my surprise, the verb dates from 1966, a decade after the
> actor's death. Since then, "to bogart" has racked up 4,810,000 Googles.
> That's impressive, but that's how time goes by.

The author thereby proves that (a) he doesn't know how to use Google
properly, (b) he still doesn't know what "bogart" means, and (c) he's
never seen "Easy Rider".

Actual results of a more relevant Google search:

"don't bogart" = 61,600

"don't bogart" -joint = 33,300
Evan Kirshenbaum - 13 Nov 2006 20:01 GMT
>> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a
>> line attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> "don't bogart" -joint = 33,300

According to the OED, there are *two* meanings for "bogart".  The one
cited back to 1966 (and up to 1997) has a person as the object and is
defined as "to force, coerce; to bully, intimidate".  The second,
cited to 1968, is the "joint" one.

I had never heard the first.

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Weatherlawyer - 16 Nov 2006 11:15 GMT
> >> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a
> >> line attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> I had never heard the first.

I thought it was a word used in humour for the way that Hollywood
detectives threw cigarettes away in closeups. Such techniques were the
bread and butter of high drama in the 1940's and it was used to
emphasise the value of a joint stub that a rich well to do young
gentleman would not consider wasteful in throwing away.

I think the term was used in Easy Rider or in a song used on its sound
track.
Mark Wallace - 13 Nov 2006 21:49 GMT
>> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a line
>> attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his competitors
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> "don't bogart" -joint = 33,300

My God.  Are you /really/ being smugly prescriptive about a modern idiom?
Don Phillipson - 13 Nov 2006 19:45 GMT
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> recorded 1,400,000 cites. One who is skint is "poor, broke, hard up,
> out of funds, in the red, on the rocks." My ear picks up a faint echo

Skint was current English slang in the 1950s
(and for decades earlier I expect.)

>  . . .  the famed Lespinasse in New York. The food was wonderful, but her
> boorish host was not: He engaged in "some unwelcome knee frottage."
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> have tallied 263,000 hits on "frottage," but they cannot say which of
> the two definitions drew the majority vote.

Perhaps French is known better in Britain, but I
think the criminal code has included frottage for
several decades, most often committed in crowded
underground trains (subways) where proof is hard
to produce later in court . . .

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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Ian Noble - 14 Nov 2006 21:02 GMT
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Skint was current English slang in the 1950s
>(and for decades earlier I expect.)

"Was"?  It still is, as far as I'm aware.

Cheers - Ian
(BrE: Yorks., Notts., Hants.)
Peter Moylan - 15 Nov 2006 02:45 GMT
> Perhaps French is known better in Britain, but I think the criminal
> code has included frottage for several decades, most often committed
> in crowded underground trains (subways) where proof is hard to
> produce later in court . . .

Frottage happens all the time in those trains. The unprovable part is
whether it was deliberate.

Do sardines get sexual pleasure from being squeezed between two other
sardines? Who can tell?

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Mike Lyle - 13 Nov 2006 20:26 GMT
[...]
> A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a clipping
> from The Times about a woman who confessed to an aversion to doctors:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of "skinny, skin-flint, skin and bones." Maybe "skint" is a cousin to
> "scant." I would leave this one in London.
[...]

No, it's a colloquial variant past participle of "skin". I think it
started way back in reference to taking somebody's shirt at cards,
hence the "stoney broke" use.  I'm quite surprised that you haven't
spotted the standard form across the Pond before: OED says it's of US
origin (1862) in the sense of "beat", and gives an 1819 US example in
the "take one's money" sense. In the "beat thoroughly" sense, and more
recently, my son said, after watching a vigorous Parliamentary debate
on TV, "He was skinning him."

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Mike.

Mike Lyle - 13 Nov 2006 20:26 GMT
[...]
> A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a clipping
> from The Times about a woman who confessed to an aversion to doctors:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of "skinny, skin-flint, skin and bones." Maybe "skint" is a cousin to
> "scant." I would leave this one in London.
[...]

No, it's a colloquial variant past participle of "skin". I think it
started way back in reference to taking somebody's shirt at cards,
hence the "stoney broke" use.  I'm quite surprised that you haven't
spotted the standard form across the Pond before: OED says it's of US
origin (1862) in the sense of "beat", and gives an 1819 US example in
the "take one's money" sense. In the "beat thoroughly" sense, and more
recently, my son said, after watching a vigorous Parliamentary debate
on TV, "He was skinning him."

Signature

Mike.

Pierre Jelenc - 13 Nov 2006 21:09 GMT
Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> cites:

> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
> Opinion
> James J. Kilpatrick

What an amazingly ignorant piece of drivel! Here's an individual who is
either over 80 years old and has been in a coma for the past 40, or is
under 10, and has never read anything published outside the US, nor
travelled outside North America.

Pierre
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HVS - 13 Nov 2006 21:17 GMT
On 13 Nov 2006, Pierre Jelenc wrote

> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> cites:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> past 40, or is under 10, and has never read anything published
> outside the US, nor travelled outside North America.

Well put; my feelings exactly.

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Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Robert Lieblich - 13 Nov 2006 21:44 GMT
> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> cites:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> under 10, and has never read anything published outside the US, nor
> travelled outside North America.

I don't know about the coma, but Kilpatrick was born in 1920, which
puts him well on the far side of 80.  He has long fancied himself an
authority on English usage, but he is in fact a prescriptivist snob.
(I do not mean to say that all prescriptivists are snobs. That's
another matter entirely.)  I can't imagine why any publications carry
his column any more.  His views of language appear as ludicrous to
this American as they do to those of you elsewhere.

After Kilpatrick, even Safire is a step up.

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Bob Lieblich
OY!

Mark Wallace - 13 Nov 2006 21:53 GMT
>> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> cites:
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> his column any more.  His views of language appear as ludicrous to
> this American as they do to those of you elsewhere.

Thank phuck for that!
Skitt - 13 Nov 2006 22:09 GMT
>> Fred Goodwin cites:

>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
>>> Opinion
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I don't know about the coma, but Kilpatrick was born in 1920, which
> puts him well on the far side of 80.  

Aw, rats!  You beat me to it, and I didn't notice.

> He has long fancied himself an
> authority on English usage, but he is in fact a prescriptivist snob.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> After Kilpatrick, even Safire is a step up.
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Robert Lieblich - 13 Nov 2006 22:44 GMT
> >> Fred Goodwin cites:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Aw, rats!  You beat me to it, and I didn't notice.

Great minds in harmony.

Kilpatrick's Latvian isn't any better than his English.

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Da Liebss (just back from Chicago)

Jeffrey Turner - 13 Nov 2006 22:54 GMT
>>Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> cites:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> After Kilpatrick, even Safire is a step up.

Safire seems, especially for an old conservative, to be much closer to a
descriptivist and nowhere near so curmudgeonly on neologisms and slang.
He's a big step up.

--Jeff

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show valor; thus an inner dignity is
ascribed to war itself, and even some
philosophers have praised it as an
ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the
pronouncement of the Greek who said,
"War is an evil in as much as it produces
more wicked men than it takes away."
--Immanuel Kant

Skitt - 13 Nov 2006 22:08 GMT
> Fred Goodwin cites:

>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
>> Opinion
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> or is under 10, and has never read anything published outside the US,
> nor travelled outside North America.

Well, he is 86 years old.  I don't know about the coma.
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Pat Durkin - 13 Nov 2006 23:07 GMT
>> Fred Goodwin cites:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Well, he is 86 years old.  I don't know about the coma.

Wasn't he on TV in "Point/Counterpoint" opposite Shana Alexander (or
someone like that)?  Long, long ago.  I think that Crossfire, in all its
incarnations, was about the 4th recreation of P/CP.
Mark Wallace - 14 Nov 2006 00:02 GMT
>>> Fred Goodwin cites:
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucjk/20061113/cm_ucjk/gonephishing
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> someone like that)?  Long, long ago.  I think that Crossfire, in all its
> incarnations, was about the 4th recreation of P/CP.

He was probably raised on Curme.

'Nuff said.
Mark Brader - 16 Nov 2006 05:39 GMT
Pat Durkin:
> Wasn't he [Kilpatrick] on TV in "Point/Counterpoint" opposite Shana
> Alexander (or someone like that)?  Long, long ago.

Yes, on 60 Minutes in the slot now occupied by Andy Rooney.  Wikipedia
says it was Kilpatrick vs. Nicholas von Hoffman from 1970 to 1974, then
Kilpatrick vs. Alexander until 1979.
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the Omrud - 13 Nov 2006 22:30 GMT
Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:

> A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a clipping
> from The Times about a woman who confessed to an aversion to doctors:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> of "skinny, skin-flint, skin and bones." Maybe "skint" is a cousin to
> "scant." I would leave this one in London.

There it is again.  Sigh.  What's "skint" got to do with London?  
It's perfectly ordinary British English slang, most likely still
current from Cornwall to Shetland and Cromer to Pembroke.

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=====

mike.j.harvey@gmail.com - 14 Nov 2006 08:31 GMT
> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:
>
> > A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a clipping
> > from The Times

> There it is again.  Sigh.  What's "skint" got to do with London?
> It's perfectly ordinary British English slang, most likely still
> current from Cornwall to Shetland and Cromer to Pembroke.

Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
synonymous, don't they?
HVS - 14 Nov 2006 11:17 GMT
On 14 Nov 2006,  wrote

>> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
> synonymous, don't they?

Especially ones like the quoted writer, who exhibits a woeful lack of
knowledge about English and usage.

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Cheers, Harvey

Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Tony Cooper - 14 Nov 2006 13:39 GMT
>> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
>synonymous, don't they?

Well, Americans might say "I'm going to Britain in May" when the trip
is planned just for a visit to London, but that would be the same as a
Brit saying "I'm going to the US in May" when the trip is planned just
for a visit to NYC.

If your meaning is that an American might assume, on meeting someone
who announces they are from Britain, that person is from London, then
I don't think that's the case.

I can't think of a situation where your statement might be true.  
Signature


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Buckwheat Soba - 14 Nov 2006 19:00 GMT
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
>>Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
>>synonymous, don't they?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> who announces they are from Britain, that person is from London, then
> I don't think that's the case.

That flashed me back to, what was it, 1984 perhaps, when my sister was
co-renting a house in the Hamptons, and she invited me to go there one
weekend, when she thought none of the other renters would be present, only
one night some of them showed up, in a car that had Illinois plates.  And
I remember saying "They must be from Chicago", and my sister said,
scoffingly, "I don't *think* so".

My sister was implying, I think, that no one she'd rent a house in the
Hamptons with would be so undesirable as to be from Chicago.  If they were
from Illinois, it had to be from somewhere else (presumably a fine Chicago
suburb like Elk Prairie Grove would do).

That was many years before I actually went to Chicago (or Illinois
period [= BrE "full stop"]).

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Buckwheat Soba

Robert Bannister - 15 Nov 2006 00:09 GMT
>>Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
> synonymous, don't they?

So do many Londoners.

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Rob Bannister

Peter Moylan - 15 Nov 2006 02:38 GMT
>> Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
>> synonymous, don't they?
>>
> So do many Londoners.

Tell me about it. Some Sydneysiders seem to think that they would fall
off the edge of the world if they ventured beyond the outer suburbs of
Sydney.

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Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses.  The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
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Tony Cooper - 15 Nov 2006 03:20 GMT
>>> Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
>>> synonymous, don't they?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>off the edge of the world if they ventured beyond the outer suburbs of
>Sydney.

Hah.  Let me tell you about people from Brooklyn.

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Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Charles Riggs - 22 Nov 2006 11:25 GMT
>> Fred Goodwin, CMA <fgoodwin@yahoo.com> had it:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Some Americans tend to think that "London" and "Britain" are
>synonymous, don't they?

I hope not, but I often hear the Irish conflating England and Britain.
Signature

Charles Riggs

Robert Singers - 14 Nov 2006 09:33 GMT
Between saving the world and having a spot of tea the Omrud said

> There it is again.  Sigh.  What's "skint" got to do with London?  
> It's perfectly ordinary British English slang, most likely still
> current from Cornwall to Shetland and Cromer to Pembroke.

It’s probably more accurate to say current from the Shetlands to the
Antipodes.

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mike.j.harvey@gmail.com - 14 Nov 2006 11:07 GMT
> Between saving the world and having a spot of tea the Omrud said
>
> > There it is again.  Sigh.  What's "skint" got to do with London?
> > It's perfectly ordinary British English slang, most likely still
> > current from Cornwall to Shetland and Cromer to Pembroke.

Sometimes rendered as 'boracic' in rhyming slang (boracic lint)
Mike Lyle - 14 Nov 2006 18:41 GMT
> > Between saving the world and having a spot of tea the Omrud said
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sometimes rendered as 'boracic' in rhyming slang (boracic lint)

And often -- perhaps usually -- pronounced "brassic". Next time I hear
it, I'll try to find a way of asking if the speaker knows the "boracic"
connection.

Sideways shift: does Mr Baron Cohen know that "poke borack at" is Aus
Sl for "make fun of"? (I was tickled to learn that when interviewed in
Sydney, he insisted on having the questions presented in advance for
his approval, like any gutless Hollywooder: either that was very witty,
or he's reached his sell-by.)

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Mike.

Tester - 14 Nov 2006 18:05 GMT
>One of the many glories of the English language is that it grows even
>faster than crabgrass. As a prime example, take the verb "to phish."
>Take it away. Take it far away!

Many moons ago, people who were playing not very legal games with the
telephone system were called  "phreaks" and their activity was called
"phreaking".

Real hackers called next door via another continent to learn about the
system; "poor students" bought a "blue box" from Steve Wozniak (one
the founders of Apple - he  sold them in the Berkeley dorms) so  they
could make long calls to their girlfriends 2000 km away without paying
long distance charges.

http://www.robson.org/gary/writing/phreaking.html
http://www.webcrunchers.com/crunch/

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Adrian Bailey - 14 Nov 2006 19:41 GMT
> GONE PHISHING
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> faster than crabgrass. As a prime example, take the verb "to phish."
> Take it away. Take it far away!

And they pay this guy money?

Adrian
Peter Moylan - 15 Nov 2006 00:37 GMT
> A reader who recently returned from London has passed along a
> clipping from The Times about a woman who confessed to an aversion to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> up a faint echo of "skinny, skin-flint, skin and bones." Maybe
> "skint" is a cousin to "scant." I would leave this one in London.

Where have you been? "Skint", sometimes spelled "skinned", as about as
rare as a day in Spring. On top of that, it's been used for far too long
to qualify as a neologism.

> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a
> line attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his
> competitors "are not going to bogart me," i.e., they were not going
> to steal his stuff. To my surprise, the verb dates from 1966, a
> decade after the actor's death. Since then, "to bogart" has racked up
> 4,810,000 Googles. That's impressive, but that's how time goes by.

My first reaction to that was to think that Matthews had come up with an
unusual new definition for "bogart", but the very first google hit on
"don't bogart" is an article entitled "How did the word "bogart" come to
mean "steal"?". Apparently this time it's me who failed to notice the
new use of a known verb.

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Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses.  The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
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address could disappear at any time.

Maria - 16 Nov 2006 06:07 GMT
>> Have you met the verb "to bogart"? It turned up in USA Today in a
>> line attributed to TV commentator Chris Matthews. He said his
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> come to mean "steal"?". Apparently this time it's me who failed to
> notice the new use of a known verb.

I did some checking, too.

*M-W online*:
Main Entry: bo·gart
Pronunciation: 'bO-"gärt
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: probably from Humphrey Bogart died 1957 American film actor
1 : BULLY, INTIMIDATE <bogarts his way into the room>
2 : to use or consume without sharing <bogart a joint>
newbie_tw@yahoo.com.tw  wrote:

(I guess I can see how "bogart" came to mean "steal.")

*Encarta* adds another ("dated") definition:
1. transitive verb
monopolize: to take more than a fair share of something (slang dated)

Webster's *New Millennium* Dictionary of English
to selfishly take or keep something; hog
Example: She was drunk and bogarted attention at the block party.
Usage: slang; bogarted, bogarting

To "John Wayne," by the way, means "to act with great force and little
deliberation, esp. in a self-consciously heroic manner: 'He John Wayned
the door, kicking it right next to the lock and sending it crashing
across the bathroom.'"

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Maria

 
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