Did I say what I meant to in this email?

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TimeTraveller - 22 Dec 2006 05:18 GMT

Hi, all

This is perhaps not the proper forum to ask this question, but you're
all very much into the language and its meanings, so I thought I'd take
a chance. Apologies if it's inappropriate.

Background:
I'm looking for a free-lance illustrator to illustrate a fiction book
I'm writing. Audience is for teens, 12-16. I want the illustrator to
create original work for me, consisting of teens wearing scuba gear,
etc.
My ad stated that I would want 10 illustrations, 5 illustrating action
from the book, 5 just 'generic' fish and things.

A woman emailed me that she was interested, and sent me a few gifs of
her work. But they were of women standing around, not in scuba gear,
etc. They were also not that well-proportioned so I wanted to give her
a test to see if she could do better, and specifically a test in the
area of scuba diving.

So, I searched the web for an appropriate sample picture, and came
across one that had a female swimmer, but with her back to the viewer.
I did not want to use this picture in the book, I did not want to use
the re-vamped picture in the book, all I wanted was for the woman to
redo the picture [have the woman face front, and alter shape of
shoulders and chest to show that this was so] to show me that that was
the type of thing she could do. It was a test, nothing more.

I sent her the email below, and she went ballistic on me. Accused me of
wanting her to "cheat" by modifying clip art instead of drawing
something freehand.

I don't think that's what I implied in my email.

So, if you guys don't mind reading the following, what do *you* think
I'm asking the woman to do?

The message:

Hi,

I'm sending you a GIF of a female diver. As you can
see she is facing away from the viewer, looking out at
a ship.

I found this by doing a Google search on the web.

This is the way I would want the human figures in the
book to appear - relatively realistic. But of course,
looking out of the book instead of with their heads
turned!

Can you - very quick and simple - rearrange this
drawing so that the girl facing me? As a facial model
use a young Mary Kate or Ashley - of if you know of a
girl between 15-16 use her....

This is going to be a test I'm sending everybody. Lots
of people are able to do cartoons that look great -
but I'm not looking for cartoons, I'm looking for
realistic...

Reply to this Message

Tony Cooper - 22 Dec 2006 05:56 GMT

>I sent her the email below, and she went ballistic on me. Accused me of
>wanting her to "cheat" by modifying clip art instead of drawing
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Can you - very quick and simple - rearrange this
>drawing

There's your problem. You asked her to rearrange *this* drawing.
What you meant was "Please submit a sketch in a similar style".

Don't worry about it, though. You don't want to get involved with
someone who will "go ballistic" on you. She should have responded "Do
you want me to draw something similar or modify this art?" If she
isn't the type to ask for clarification of instructions she's not sure
about, she isn't someone you want to work with.

You might word your instructions something like this:
*********************************
I'll be asking for drawings of a female scuba diver. I've enclosed a
GIF that is similar to the style I have in mind. I'd like a rendering
that is more realistic than cartoonish.

The figure should be young - about 15 or 16 - with the fresh features
of a Mary Kate or Ashley Olsen. (Web-searchable if you are not
familiar with these names)
*********************************
I wouldn't get specific with the instructions regarding the
positioning of the figure. You're looking for someone who can take
basic instructions and run with them. If they can't figure out that
your figure is facing away, and you want a certain face type, then the
person isn't going to be easy to work with.

I wouldn't ask for a quick and simple attempt. Let them decide how
much effort they want to put in it. That will give you more
indication of their interest and ability.

Last, what you might specify is what type of illustration will be
used; pen and ink, water color, ink and wash, etc.

BTW...as a scuba diver myself, I have to ask how you can expect to see
the diver's face when the diver is wearing a mask and regulator? Or,
is your GIF of a diver out of the water?

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Reply to this Message

TimeTraveller - 22 Dec 2006 06:37 GMT

Hi, Tony

Thanks much for the advice. All good, and which I will implement in
future.

>>Or, is your GIF of a diver out of the water?

Yes, it was out of the water.

How are you at drawing? ; )

Reply to this Message

TimeTraveller - 23 Dec 2006 15:40 GMT

Just as a follow-up, for anyone interested in the sad state of American
education.

I had emailed the ballistic woman and told her that her rude reaction
had cost her the job.

Got an email from her today in which she gave me a one line apology (it
was the "Irish" in her), and then three paragraphs in which she offered
to send me more samples of her work, revealing that she couldn't grasp
the concept of a 'test' illustration of someone in scuba gear, which I
had tried to get across to her - twice - as all important.

I have ended up going with an Indian (as opposed to Native American)
who showed a better grasp of English than did the woman. She was either
doing an ee cummings thing, or simply didn't know what capital letters
are for, nor paragraph breaks, nor periods. (All her sentences were
broken up by three dots.) Or maybe she did know but didn't think it was
necessary to use them in a business communication.

Reply to this Message

Tony Cooper - 23 Dec 2006 17:00 GMT

>I have ended up going with an Indian (as opposed to Native American)
>who showed a better grasp of English than did the woman. She was either
>doing an ee cummings thing, or simply didn't know what capital letters
>are for, nor paragraph breaks, nor periods. (All her sentences were
>broken up by three dots.) Or maybe she did know but didn't think it was
>necessary to use them in a business communication.

What is the relevance of "an Indian" here? Is it your assumption that
a person with a name like Chitra Chopra, for example, was educated in
India? Or that Chitra Chopra, if educated in the United States or the
UK, will have been a better student than a non-Indian?

Does the "she" in your second sentence refer to the Indian or "the
woman"? E.E. Cummings spelled his name with the leading "e"s and the
"c" capitalized. An "ee cummings thing" would be written as "an EE
Cummings thing". The things that Edward Estlin wrote did not use
conventional capitalization and punctuation.

Where were you educated?

Signature

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Reply to this Message

mm - 31 Dec 2006 00:48 GMT

BTW, I'm not saying you should hire her. My point was that she should
not be allowed to think, with no denial being made, that you were
trying to steal, since you weren't. It degrades society just as much
when a person thinks another is committing crimes as it does when the
person commits crimes himself. Except for serious crimes, the actual
crime can be less important than that people know about them.
Consciously or unconsciously many people will think, Well, he does it
and he gets away with it, and he benefits from it.

Actually, I don't know enough about the rules of art to know whether
what she thought you wanted to do was stealing or not. But it doesnt'
much matter, since it's not even what you wanted to do.

>Just as a follow-up, for anyone interested in the sad state of American
>education.
>
>I had emailed the ballistic woman and told her that her rude reaction
>had cost her the job.

You only get one shot at criticizing a criminal. If she had been
rigth about what you wanted to do, and if she is rightthat that is
immoral or illegal, then though her reaction was probably rude, it was
warranted. People should not stand silently by giving or appearing to
give tacit approval while others commit crimes. It just encourages
them.

And polite language is usually blown off or not even noticed as
criticism by criminals and sinners who have convinced themselves that
"there's nothing wrong with this" or "everyone does it", or "I'm short
of money so I have a special need, so it's all right" etc. One needs
to be stark, clear, explicit, and beyond reinterpretation with such
people, or they dismiss the remarks with "whatever".

>Got an email from her today in which she gave me a one line apology (it
>was the "Irish" in her), and then three paragraphs in which she offered
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>broken up by three dots.) Or maybe she did know but didn't think it was
>necessary to use them in a business communication.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Reply to this Message

mm - 31 Dec 2006 00:38 GMT

>Hi, all
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>a test to see if she could do better, and specifically a test in the
>area of scuba diving.

START

>So, I searched the web for an appropriate sample picture, and came
>across one that had a female swimmer, but with her back to the viewer.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>shoulders and chest to show that this was so] to show me that that was
>the type of thing she could do. It was a test, nothing more.

END

>I sent her the email below, and she went ballistic on me. Accused me of
>wanting her to "cheat" by modifying clip art instead of drawing
>something freehand.
>
>I don't think that's what I implied in my email.

I read the email and I think it is neither implied nor contradicted.

A better test for us would have been to print the email first, with no
comment, and then ask us questions about what we thought it meant.
(and then tell us what you meant and ask more questions.)

By telling us first what you meant, you put us in the same situation
that you are in, knowing what you meant before reading the email. The
artist you wrote to is NOT in that position. She knows ONLY what she
reads in the email.

The remedy is to send her your original post to this group (which I
have quoted here) which explains your goals. I believe you (because
why would you post here if you were lying?) and she may well believe
you (I would in her shoes), but she certainly won't know your actual
goals unless you tell her, so she will continue to think you
dishonest.

Any emails you send to others should include the text you put here

P*M becuase it has been so long.

>So, if you guys don't mind reading the following, what do *you* think
>I'm asking the woman to do?
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>but I'm not looking for cartoons, I'm looking for
>realistic...

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Reply to this Message

Discussion Groups / English Usage / December 2006

Did I say what I meant to in this email?