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zugzwang? other than in chess?

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jeremia - 03 Jan 2007 23:35 GMT
It is a german word used when a chess player is...up the creek, no
choice but awful ones.  But is the word ever used in any other game,
any other context?
Hobson's choice might be better understood?
Martin Ambuhl - 04 Jan 2007 07:22 GMT
> It is a german word used when a chess player is...up the creek, no
> choice but awful ones.  But is the word ever used in any other game,
> any other context?
> Hobson's choice might be better understood?

You are confused about both "zugzwang" and "Hobson's choice."

"Zugzwang" does not mean that all choices are bad.  It means that the
compulsion to act is a disadvantage. Such situations are extremely rare:
usually some form of inactivity or transferring the necessity to act
onto another can occur.  Still, the phrase *is* used in studies of
international relations and in military history.

"Hobson's choice" is not between awful ones.  It is the choice between
having whatever (one) thing is offered or taking nothing at all.  The
whole point is that Hobson did not offer a choice between bad horses;
you could take the one he offered or do without.

If "zugzwang" describes a situation, then using "Hobson's choice" would
be an error.  If there exists a way to avoid acting, then "zugzwang" is
wrong.  Further, an apparently bad result in a particular situation can
be part of a winning strategy.  It is for this reason that, for example,
the choice between folding and throwing more money in the pot when
holding a losing poker hand is not a zugzwang situation.  Unlike chess,
where the compulsion to move can create a crippling situation, folding
on these hands is part of a longer-term winning strategy.
Barbara Bailey - 04 Jan 2007 15:32 GMT
>It is a german word used when a chess player is...up the creek, no
>choice but awful ones.  But is the word ever used in any other game,
>any other context?
>Hobson's choice might be better understood?

I've heard it used very rarely in a non-chess context, but in those
cases it was always used by a chess-player and usually to another
chess-player.  "Hobson's choice" isn't a very exact repalcement, since
in zugzwang you have several choices but they all have a bad result;
in a Hobson's choice you have only one choice: take it or leave it,
and it may not have a bad result.  "Lose-lose" or "no-win" might be a
better replacement for "zugzwang."

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jeremia - 05 Jan 2007 23:02 GMT
> >It is a german word used when a chess player is...up the creek, no
> >choice but awful ones.  But is the word ever used in any other game,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> chess-player.  "Hobson's choice" isn't a very exact repalcement, since
> in zugzwang you have several choices but they all have a bad result;

Thank you for two interesting replies...BUT..."repalcement" !!!!  Easy
to do.  Think of a word. ANY word, transpose two letters...search
google...laugh at the thousands of hits.  My favourite is WAHSINGTON
from the case of an elderly chap who counterfeited $1 bills for several
years.(jjr512.com)
 
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