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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007Comma usage for implied subject?
I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of "you." Here is an example: Go one mile to Main Street and turn left at South Street. Continue for two miles and turn at the first gravel road to the right. Should I use comma before "and" in the above sentences? If yes, the sentences would be: Go one mile to Main Street, and turn left at South Street. Continue for two miles, and turn at the first gravel road to the right. PaulF > I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. > There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > PaulF Commas would add nothing to the comprehensibility so leave them out. You might want to decide which way you want your reader to turn at the first gravel road to the right though! >> I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. >> There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >You might want to decide which way you want your reader to turn at the >first gravel road to the right though! I think the whole thing needs to be rewritten. "Go one mile to Main Street," OK, I can do that. "and turn left at South Street." Where'd South Street come from? I was at Main Street. Do I need to turn on Main Street to get to South Street? If so, which way? Or does South Street come after Main Street if I don't turn? Does it come just before Main Street? Or maybe this is one of those weird streets that's MAin Street in one direction from the intersection and South Street in the other direction? "Continue for two miles..." Again, fairly straightforward and unconfusing. "and turn at the first gravel road to the right." Am I going to go two miles before the first gravel road to the right appears? or am I to turn on the first gravel road to the right following the two mile mark, and disregard the other ten that I passed before I had completed two miles? Am I to take the first -gravel road- and turn right on it even though it goes in both directions, or am I to hold out for the first gravel road that only goes to the right? Making some assumptions, they'd be much better directions if they went "Go on one mile; that puts you at the corner of Main Street. One block past Main Street on this road is South Street. Turn left at South Street. Stay on South Street for two miles. Once you've passed the two-mile mark, turn right on the first gravel road you come to."  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I agree that it should be rewritten. It was a poorly constructed example. If the sentence is: "Cross the George Mason Bridge and continue 5.7 miles to the T intersection." Should a comma be placed after Bridge? PaulF >>> I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. >>> There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >Street. Stay on South Street for two miles. Once you've passed the >two-mile mark, turn right on the first gravel road you come to." >I agree that it should be rewritten. It was a poorly constructed >example. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >PaulF I wouldn't. But I tend to not use compound sentences when giving directions if I can possibly avoid it, so I'd break it into two sentences. >>>> I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. >>>> There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >>Street. Stay on South Street for two miles. Once you've passed the >>two-mile mark, turn right on the first gravel road you come to." SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com These kind of directions would not be what my wife would give or follow. Her directions would be: >>>"Go one mile to Main Street," Go to that street where there's a Publix on one corner and a JoAnne's Fabric shop on the other. >>>"and turn left at South Street. Turn left at the Walgreen's >>>"Continue for two miles..." Keep going until you see that vegetable stand that has the good peaches. >>>"and turn at the first gravel road to the right." Turn right at that cream-colored house with the green trim and those horrible red curtains. Watch out for that yellow dog that comes out and chases the car. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >These kind of directions would not be what my wife would give or >follow. Her directions would be: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >horrible red curtains. Watch out for that yellow dog that comes out >and chases the car. Those work too, assumong that you know which veggie stand has the good peaches... I'm rather sensitive about the directions I get, ever since the episode involving "the third stoplight," the Mobile River delta, weird clothes, and a car with a half-empty gas tank at dusk. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >I agree that it should be rewritten. It was a poorly constructed > example. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > PaulF If you think of you sentence as a list, you only have two items. The comma is optional. However, since you already have the word "and," it is certainly sufficient. SignatureYours, Dan S. Temporary sig pending inspiration: - If I did all the things that will "only" take {X} minutes per day, it would take three days to do them all.> > >>>> I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>Street. Stay on South Street for two miles. Once you've passed the >>two-mile mark, turn right on the first gravel road you come to." > I agree that it should be rewritten. It was a poorly constructed > example. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Should a comma be placed after Bridge? No, because it is a simple sentence with a compound predicate of two parts. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse halves of the user name for my e-address > > I agree that it should be rewritten. It was a poorly constructed > > example. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No, because it is a simple sentence with a compound predicate of two > parts. Exactly. Because it's an imperative sentence, it has no expressed subject -- only the predicate, which is compound. Compound predicates joined by "and" do not require a comma preceding "and". Although particular examples of compound predicate may be so prolix that a comma before "and" would help the reader, this is hardly one of them. I still cling to the notion that a coordinating conjunction joining two independent cloauses should, with some very infrequent exceptions, be preceded by a comma. I bear with stoicism (or respond with rants to) the slings and arrows that this position attracts. SignatureBob Lieblich One gold star for Bill McCray >I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. >There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >PaulF My personal preference is .. Go one mile to Main Street. Turn left at South Street. Continue for two miles and turn at the first gravel road to the right. SignatureFrancis Cameron And lo, Paul Ferguson <Paul@PaulFerguson.us> emerged from the ether and spake thus: > I have some sentences that are navigation instructions to the reader. > There are composed of multiple clauses with an implied subject of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > PaulF I have always gone by the general rule that fewer commas are better. After writing a long paragraph, I often re-read it to find that I have used far too many commas; more commas than necessary to maintain the meaning. I typically eliminate a comma if reading the sentence without it seems to have no additional meaning or useful nuance. I realize that's a somewhat vague description, but it's only as vague as English usage... In your examples, I don't feel that commas are necessary for comprehension. Why are you grouping "go one mile to Main Street" with "turn left at South Street," but then starting a new sentence for "Continue for two miles...?" If it had been phrased, "On Main Street, turn left onto South Street after one mile," you wouldn't be able to split that up without rephrasing it, however, as written, perhaps it should be three sentences. SignatureAaron http://www.fisheyegallery.com http://www.singleservingphoto.com >I have always gone by the general rule that fewer commas are better. I tend to agree with you. Punctuation was invented in the Punctual Region of Madedonia. Still, most punctuation is produced there, and in recent years much of the profit they make in the export of punctuation has gone to the struggle to achieve independance for Macedonia. Unfortunately, in practice that means the armed struggle. So remember, part of every dollar spent for the import of punctuation goes to buy weapons elsewhere in the world. The same thing for Arabic numerals, and we can see where that has led. >After writing a long paragraph, I often re-read it to find that I have >used far too many commas; more commas than necessary to maintain the >meaning. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) [ ... ] > Punctuation was invented in the Punctual > Region of Madedonia. Still, most punctuation is produced there, I think that would read much better as "Most punctuation is still produced there." > and in recent years much of the profit they make in the export of > punctuation has gone to the struggle to achieve independance Where do we go to purchase spelling? > for Macedonia. Hey, are we suddenly talking about a real place? I thought "Madedonia" ([sic]; see above) was a clever neologism. Surely it's not just another mispelling. > Unfortunately, in practice that means the armed struggle. Bring 'em on. Semicolons at forty paces. > So remember, part of every dollar spent for the import of punctuation > goes to buy weapons elsewhere in the world. I produce my own hand-tailored commas and hyphens. There's great need of both. I charge less than half of what you'd have to pay Madedonia (or Macedonia; whatever). I also have some second-hand product in other lines, such as dashes and question marks. And I invest the proceeds in important things like paying my ISP so I can post such blather as this. > The same thing for Arabic numerals, and we can see where that has led. If the Romans had had better numerals, we'd all be speaking Latin. So why don't we all[1] speak Arabic? > After writing a long paragraph, I often re-read it to find that I have > used far too many commas; more commas than necessary to maintain the > meaning. Had you reread that one (short though it is), you'd have discovered an unnecessary hyphen and a semicolon that should be something else, preferably a dash, maybe a colon. In my general experience, far more meaning is lost or confused through omission of needed punctuation than vice versa. That's one reason I peddle those commas and hyphens. Business ought to be brisker. [1] No, I'm not going to tell you who "all" is. SignatureBob Lieblich Two for one sale on em dashes currently in progress >> So remember, part of every dollar spent for the import of punctuation >> goes to buy weapons elsewhere in the world. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > proceeds in important things like paying my ISP so I can post such > blather as this. You can get conflict-free or "bloodless" punctuation from Ruritania. SignatureLeila: "What if he's innocent?" Agent Rogersz: "No one is innocent." "Adam Funk" <a24061@yahoo.com> wrote > >> So remember, part of every dollar spent for the import of punctuation > >> goes to buy weapons elsewhere in the world. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You can get conflict-free or "bloodless" punctuation from Ruritania. Assuming, of course, that you don't mind children working 18 hour shifts, six days a week, with no federal holidays. --oTTo-- >"Adam Funk" <a24061@yahoo.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> You can get conflict-free or "bloodless" punctuation from Ruritania. Thank you. That's good to hear. I'll look into it. >Assuming, of course, that you don't mind children working >18 hour shifts, six days a week, with no federal holidays. Well, that's because Ruritania is not a federation, but they may have national holidays. I did a google search and it seems the RDP, Ruritan Democratic Party won last year's elections and there have been new laws passed to limit child labor. It's good to see rural people making progress. >--oTTo-- If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) ]Go one mile to Main Street and turn left at ]South Street. Continue for two miles and ]turn at the first gravel road to the right. "Go one mile to Main Street"You are going _to_ Main Street? What street are you on now? Once you reach Main, how can you possibly turn left at South Street? Did you mean to say, "Go one mile _on_ Main Street to South Street"? Very confusing directions! CH >]Go one mile to Main Street and turn left at >]South Street. Continue for two miles and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Very confusing directions! Yes. But there are ways in which the directions can make sense: 1. Main Street is a continuation of the street you are currently on: the name changes. 2. When you reach Main Street there is only one direction you can go: not straight ahead, left but not right (or vice versa). SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) |
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