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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2007I say tins, you say tines, let's call the whole thing offal
Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," the last syllable pronounced like the "tines" of a fork and receiving a smidgen of emphasis just like the middle syllable. As a US native (and not a doctor -- don't even play one on TV), I'd always heard it pronounced "in-TESS-tins" -- Tess as in d'Urbervilles and tins like English English for cans. Is this a rightpondianism making its way over here, or a mispronunciation that sounds as though it ought to be more correct, or what some medical professionals have been saying all along, or...??? Cheers, --Joe > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > mispronunciation that sounds as though it ought to be more correct, or > what some medical professionals have been saying all along, or...??? No more than a USAmerican mispronunciation, as far as I know.  SignatureAlec McKenzie usenet@<surname>.me.uk > > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No more than a USAmerican mispronunciation, as far as I know. Similar to "Eye"-raq, "Eye"-ran, ant-"eye", sem-"eye" ? > > > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > > > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Similar to "Eye"-raq, "Eye"-ran, ant-"eye", sem-"eye" ? Precisely. SignatureAlec McKenzie usenet@<surname>.me.uk >>> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a >>> number of people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Similar to "Eye"-raq, "Eye"-ran, ant-"eye", sem-"eye" ? But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". Also, consider words like BritE "miss-eye-le, which Americans tend to pronounce "missal". The convention is so mixed up that I am hardly annoyed to find that I have been mispronouncing "intestine" (the adjective) wrong all these years, as in "intest-eye-ne rivalries". SOD says the final vowel is just as in the plural noun. I admit to being Canadian. >But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". No (to the first part; I can't answer for the second). Katy >>But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". > >No (to the first part; I can't answer for the second). "Kwah-zi" versus "kway-zye" is another one. SignatureArchie Valparaiso > >>But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". > > > >No (to the first part; I can't answer for the second). > > "Kwah-zi" versus "kway-zye" is another one. Everyone I know is Kwozi. Phil Signature"Home taping is killing big business profits. We left this side blank so you can help." -- Dead Kennedys, written upon the B-side of tapes of /In God We Trust, Inc./. >> But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". > > No (to the first part; I can't answer for the second). Really not? Auntie Disestablishmentarianism (mutatus mutandis)? I think I'll take a nap now. In message <eoge70$2md$1@aioe.org>, CDB <bellemarec@sympatico.ca> writes >>> But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". >> >> No (to the first part; I can't answer for the second). > >Really not? Auntie Disestablishmentarianism (mutatus mutandis)? I >think I'll take a nap now. ================================================ Please allow me to be pedantic for a moment. It's mutatis. Not mutatus. SignatureFrancis Cameron >> [...] (mutatus mutandis)? I think I'll take a nap now. > Please allow me to be pedantic for a moment. It's mutatis. Not > mutatus. You are correct, Sir. I commit typos with admirable frequency; the fact that I didn't catch this one shows I was right to call naptime. Congrats on escaping the Skitt's Law effect (I'm assuming the single spaces were deliberate). In message <eoiej8$gbj$1@aioe.org>, CDB <bellemarec@sympatico.ca> writes >>> [...] (mutatus mutandis)? I think I'll take a nap now. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Congrats on escaping the Skitt's Law effect (I'm assuming the single >spaces were deliberate). ============================================== I admit I am unaware of the phenomenon you describe as the Skitt's Law effect. Would you like to elucidate? ==================================================== SignatureFrancis Cameron >In message <eoiej8$gbj$1@aioe.org>, CDB <bellemarec@sympatico.ca> writes >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >==================================================== "Skitt" is a regular poster in aue. His Law is described at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skitt%27s_Law Skitt's Law is an adage in Internet culture that originated on Usenet. Its precise wording is a matter of debate, but its general intent is that someone who corrects another's grammar or spelling mistake is bound to make such a mistake in the very post that makes the correction. ... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) [...] > I admit I am unaware of the phenomenon you describe as the Skitt's > Law effect. Would you like to elucidate? It's proverbial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skitt's_law . Francis Cameron filted: >In message <eoge70$2md$1@aioe.org>, CDB <bellemarec@sympatico.ca> writes >> >>Really not? Auntie Disestablishmentarianism (mutatus mutandis)? I >>think I'll take a nap now. > >Please allow me to be pedantic for a moment. It's mutatis. Not mutatus. Maybe it changed when you weren't watching....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.] >> Similar to "Eye"-raq, "Eye"-ran, ant-"eye", sem-"eye" ? > > But "ant-eye" is British, no? US "-i", there, is as in "auntie". I wouldn't make that generalization. Many Americans say "ant-eye" for many anti- words. Might be less common today than it once was, but not rare or class-marked enough to warrant comment. SignatureSalvatore Volatile > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Cheers, > --Joe We on right of pond are with you on this one. In tess tins. Chris R >> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of >> people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >We on right of pond are with you on this one. In tess tins. Or possibly "teens", but never "tines". I'm less sure whether it should be intes-tin-al or intest-tine-al. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > mispronunciation that sounds as though it ought to be more correct, or > what some medical professionals have been saying all along, or...??? Nope, the Rightpondian pronunciation is inTESStins or inTESSteens. Medically as well as domestically. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of >> people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Nope, the Rightpondian pronunciation is inTESStins or inTESSteens. >Medically as well as domestically. What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in "intestinal"? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number >>> of people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in > "intestinal"? "inTESStinal". HTH HAND GUT. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in >> "intestinal"? > > "inTESStinal". HTH HAND GUT. Holding his hand on gut? I can't keep track of these initialisms. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >>> What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in >>> "intestinal"? >> >> "inTESStinal". HTH HAND GUT. > > Holding his hand on gut? I can't keep track of these initialisms. Hope This Helps. Have A Nice Day. Gut just because it's quicker than intestine. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>> What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in >>>> "intestinal"? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Hope This Helps. Have A Nice Day. Gut just because it's quicker than > intestine. Ah! Understood, thank you. It follows, I suppose, that UGT is an intestinal disorder. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >>>> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number >>>> of people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >"inTESStinal". HTH HAND GUT. I asked because there are some words where the stress is shifted to another syllable when a suffix is affixed. (As usual when trying to find an example my mind has gone blank.) Thus "intess-TINE-al". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: >On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:08:47 -0000, "Amethyst Deceiver" >>> What is the Rightpondian medical pronounciation of "tinal" in >>> "intestinal"? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Thus "intess-TINE-al". "MISanthrope" --> "miSANthropy" --> "misanTHROPic" --> "miSANthropist" That's always annoyed me, for some reason. SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: >>On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:08:47 -0000, "Amethyst Deceiver" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > That's always annoyed me, for some reason. But how do you say the "o" in "miSANthrope or -y", and is it the same as in "misnTHROPic"? I won't say this is the same problem as with "in TES tinal, in tes TYE nal", but it may be related to where one places the stress. (After that, it may relate to whether the speaker knows the spellings of the words.) Note: I just heard Bill Moyers on media reform. He is a good speaker, and expresses himself well. But I'll swear that, like me, his aging allows patterns learned in his youth to burst out and make him sound near illiterate. I don't know if he heard himself say "heighth", for example. It's the kind of error that he would not make in writing. Indeed, I'd bet it was spelled correctly in his script. > But how do you say the "o" in "miSANthrope or -y", and is it the same > as in "misnTHROPic"? MIZZN throp (emphasis on 1st syllable) Mizzn THROPic (emphasis on 3rd syllable, "O" sund as in "top") Works for me. Mike M In alt.usage.english, Mike M wrote: >> But how do you say the "o" in "miSANthrope or -y", and is it the same >> as in "misnTHROPic"? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Works for me. I differ on the first one: Misanthrope -- thrope as tope Misanthropy, -opist -- throp as thrup[peny bits] Misanthropic -- thropic as tropic SignatureV > I differ on the first one: > > Misanthrope -- thrope as tope I thought that was only a joke pronunciation like "gesture" or "orgy" with hard Gs. SignatureRob Bannister In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: >> I differ on the first one: >> Misanthrope -- thrope as tope > >I thought that was only a joke pronunciation like "gesture" or "orgy" >with hard Gs. Possibly, but the NSOED likes MIZnthrope. I've certainly said MIZnthrop, because I remember being puzzled by my own pronunciation, but MIZnthrope feels more natural. Or it did. I've been saying the word so much that both versions now sound wrong. SignatureV The Vinny Burgoo entity posted thusly: >In alt.usage.english, Robert Bannister wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Or it did. I've been saying the word so much that both versions now >sound wrong. I say the last syllable to rhyme with 'Pope'. I find it strange that y'all say 'Miznthrope', though. I would say 'Miss-n-thrope', stress on the 'miss'. No zed there for me. In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >The Vinny Burgoo entity posted thusly: >>Or it did. I've been saying the word so much that both versions now >>sound wrong. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I find it strange that y'all say 'Miznthrope', though. I would say >'Miss-n-thrope', stress on the 'miss'. No zed there for me. Gawd, it gets worse. I now have absolutely no idea what I normally (i.e. about twice a year) say. SignatureV Lash me to the mizzen, somebody > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > always heard it pronounced "in-TESS-tins" -- Tess as in d'Urbervilles > and tins like English English for cans. I take this mispronunciation as a typical example of pronuncition of a word one has known only from text. GFH > Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of > people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > always heard it pronounced "in-TESS-tins" -- Tess as in d'Urbervilles > and tins like English English for cans. I take this mispronunciation as a typical example of pronuncition of a word one has known only from text. GFH >>Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of >>people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I take this mispronunciation as a typical example of pronuncition of a > word one has known only from text. Which one are you considering to be the mispronunciation? SignatureRob Bannister >> Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of >> people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I take this mispronunciation as a typical example of pronuncition of a > word one has known only from text. It's not a mispronciation, it's a regional pronunciation. There are a lot of them about. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >Recently on USAmerican television and radio, I've noticed a number of >people pronouncing the word for your digestive innards "in-Tes-Tines," [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Cheers, >--Joe ===================================================== The common UK English usage is, as you so rightly say, in-TESS-tins (with the 'i' continuant so short as almost to be absent [tns]). SignatureFrancis Cameron A similar one: genuine. I say jen-you-win, but I have heard jen-you-wine, which irritates the hell out of me. You can hear a soundbite of Gordon Brown doing it just before the TalkSport (UK radio) news bulletins. Mike M >A similar one: genuine. I say jen-you-win, but I have heard >jen-you-wine, which irritates the hell out of me. You can hear a >soundbite of Gordon Brown doing it just before the TalkSport (UK radio) >news bulletins. Just heard on TV: "My car's radiator boiled over." with "radiator" pronounced "rad-ee-ator". I would say it "ray-dee-ator". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>A similar one: genuine. I say jen-you-win, but I have heard >>jen-you-wine, which irritates the hell out of me. You can hear a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Just heard on TV: "My car's radiator boiled over." with "radiator" > pronounced "rad-ee-ator". I would say it "ray-dee-ator". That's rad, man. ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.] >> Just heard on TV: "My car's radiator boiled over." with "radiator" >> pronounced "rad-ee-ator". I would say it "ray-dee-ator". > > That's rad, man. "Rad-eeator" was once the prevalent pronunciation in New York (LCIA) and one that I recall using when I was a child, although I was aware of it being a tomayto/tomahto sort of thing and of the increasing archaicity of "rad-eeator". I never heard anyone say "rad-eeo", but apparently that was once in use too. SignatureSalvatore Volatile > "Rad-eeator" was once the prevalent pronunciation in New York (LCIA) and one > that I recall using when I was a child, although I was aware of it being a > tomayto/tomahto sort of thing and of the increasing archaicity of > "rad-eeator". I recall hearing "rad-eeator". It seems to me that it was said by the kind of person who called an automobile a "ford" and a camera a "kodak". My guess would be that the post-WW2 frequency of mention of "ray-diation" killed the "rad-eeator" pronunciation. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. > >A similar one: genuine. I say jen-you-win, but I have heard > >jen-you-wine, which irritates the hell out of me. I've always heard both, guessing it to be a regional difference. > Just heard on TV: "My car's radiator boiled over." with "radiator" > pronounced "rad-ee-ator". I would say it "ray-dee-ator". I vaguely recall the grandpa on "The Waltons" (hugely popular USAmerican TV show of the early 70s, with a Depression-era Appalachian setting) pronouncing "radio" with "rad" rather than "ray." I've never heard anyone do so in person. Reminds me of an interesting generational, regional, and/or economic-sector quirk: pronouncing "NASA" like "Nassau." Both of the people I knew who favored that pronunciation were involved in aerospace (though neither worked for the agency directly) and would now be well into their 70s. Most people, at least nowadays, would say "Nass-uh." --Joe Ad absurdum per aspera filted: >Reminds me of an interesting generational, regional, and/or >economic-sector quirk: pronouncing "NASA" like "Nassau." Both of the >people I knew who favored that pronunciation were involved in >aerospace (though neither worked for the agency directly) and would >now be well into their 70s. Most people, at least nowadays, would say >"Nass-uh." Perhaps they developed the habit at a time when Gamal Abdel Nasser was more in the spotlight, and not always favorably, than he is today....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Reminds me of an interesting generational, regional, and/or > economic-sector quirk: pronouncing "NASA" like "Nassau." I heard a TV presenter pronounce Nassau like NASA only 2 days ago. I had to really think what place he was talking about. SignatureRob Bannister |
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