wet sails
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chrissy - 27 Dec 2003 04:55 GMT The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about to do Rey).
One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home with a wet sail'.
I'd always thought this meant making a late (but rapid) run from behind to threaten victory. But apparently, boats don't travel all that well with wet sails. (What I know about boats could be written on a postage stamp with a felt tip pen, so I'm ready to stand corrected here.)
If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be used as it currently is?
cheers
Chrissy
Christopher Johnson - 27 Dec 2003 05:13 GMT
> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being > plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be > used as it currently is? See the middle of the following page:
http://www.anu.edu.au/ANDC/Ozwords/June2002/Mailbag.html
Also:
http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html
 Signature Christopher
(Change 3032 to 3232 to reply by private e-mail)
chrissy - 27 Dec 2003 22:49 GMT > > > The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html Thanks Christopher, for affirming that I have the meaning approximately correct. I'm still wondering about why that particular phrase is used to convey the idea.
cheers
Chrissy
Armond Perretta - 27 Dec 2003 23:04 GMT >> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home >> with a wet sail'. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html I have been losing sailboat races for quite some time. In those rare instances where a loss failed to occur, I have never heard the captioned phrase used in connection with a come-from-behind performance, at least not in the US. In fact I have not heard the phrase at all in Leftpondia, and I listen carefully enough.
I say this taking into account the habit of some sailors to engage in alcohol-enhanced post-race explanations of what would have occurred on the course if the other participants had been as capable as the sailor providing the analysis.
The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be familiar with this phrase.
 Signature Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
John Dean - 28 Dec 2003 00:18 GMT >>> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home >>> with a wet sail'. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be > familiar with this phrase. http://www.history.rochester.edu/Scientific_American/vol1/vol1n007/p1c1.htm
Lost Time never regained. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- [WRITTEN ON HEARING A PERSON REMARK THAT HE INTENDED "TO KETCH UP LOST TIME WITH A WET SAIL."] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----
When sailors, heedless of their duty, sleep, Neglecting every favorable gale, They'll find it hard their after-course to keep, With a wet sail.
There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which all should watch with carefulness to hail; Once miss'd, it scarcely can be caught again, With a wet sail.
And yet who wishes cautiously to live, Fixing no hopes on phantoms which may fail, Will not a chase to every object give With a wet sail.
The swiftest do not always first arrive, In war the strongest do not aye prevail; The keep the golden means, nor ceaseless drive With a wet sail.
Think not to eagerness alone is given The happy mind which nothing can assail; He's on the wrong track who would enter heaven With a wet sail.
=====
Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us) http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html
<< The log records at least hourly adjustments to the sails, still seeking any and every advantage. At dawn on the 19th, four British ships still were in sight, but at least twelve miles distant. Not satisfied, Hull had his crew begin wetting the sails with sea water brought aboard with fire pumps. Constitution sped on, and at 8:15 the British were seen to give up, change course to the north, and, Hull thought, probably return to their cruising station off New York. >>
And in the US Civil War:
http://www.usigs.org/library/books/ma/Marblehead1880/Marblehead015.htm
<< The men were constantly employed in wetting the sails, and as the wind filled them, and the speed of the ship increased, the stratagem had the desired effect. >> -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply
meirman - 28 Dec 2003 02:01 GMT In alt.english.usage on Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:18:08 -0000 "John Dean" <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> posted:
>Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been >known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an >aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us) >http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html It may be that the air goes through dry sails, at a slower rate than if there were no sail there at all, but enough to lessen the effect of the sail.
I noted this month week that the Wright brothers used a very tight woven cloth for their wings, many threads per inch, that isn't made anymore and took some time to get recreated. Perhaps they needed a tight weave to keep the air from going through the cloth.
I think we have all noticed that air doesn't go through wet cloth, without substantial propelsion.
(OTOH, when it rained, as it did on the anniversary of the first flight, the rain increases the weight of the plane (something that doesn't matter as much with boats), and it changes the shape of the wing to a less efficient shape (that's the major problem with ice on the wing with a modern plane.) So it's not surprising the plane wouldn't fly well on a wet day.
><< The log records at least hourly adjustments to the sails, still seeking >any and every advantage. At dawn on the 19th, four British ships still were [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >filled them, and the speed of the ship increased, the stratagem had the >desired effect. >> s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years
John Dean - 28 Dec 2003 13:40 GMT > In alt.english.usage on Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:18:08 -0000 "John Dean" > <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> posted: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I think we have all noticed that air doesn't go through wet cloth, > without substantial propelsion. That makes sense, but, as you note below, a*very* wet piece of cloth makes things worse. There's obviously a break-even point.
> (OTOH, when it rained, as it did on the anniversary of the first > flight, the rain increases the weight of the plane (something that > doesn't matter as much with boats), and it changes the shape of the > wing to a less efficient shape (that's the major problem with ice on > the wing with a modern plane.) So it's not surprising the plane > wouldn't fly well on a wet day. -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply
Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:48 GMT > ... a*very* wet piece of > cloth makes things worse. There's obviously a break-even point. Wet sails (specifically wet cotton sails) are going to be heavier than dry sails. This puts more weight aloft, which is never a good thing.
 Signature Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
Dr Robin Bignall - 28 Dec 2003 14:52 GMT >Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been >known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an >aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us) >http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html It's just a guess, because I forgot my physics more years ago than you've had hot dinners, and have never done any sailing, but maybe wetting them makes them more controllable and stops them from flapping around, thus enabling the boat to stay exactly on course and reduce time-wasting tacking.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT > Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind > has been known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and > whether we need an aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us) > http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html This practice is no longer significant since cotton sails are no longer seen, save for a few replicas or the few remaining ships and boats of historic interest. A few years back I bumped into the USS "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, and it's possible she was fitted with cotton sails. I cannot recall.
Today's "sailcloth" is almost entirely based on synthetic materials, and exotic ones at that. There could possibly be some interest in a.u.e regarding the use of "sailcloth" to describe such materials, but I will not tarry here. With synthetics, and in particular with some of the more exotic aramid materials, sails become essentially laminated plastics and "wetting" the sails has no effect. These products are of little interest to average sailors because they are very expensive and are impractical from the standpoint of durability.
 Signature Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
John Dean - 29 Dec 2003 00:41 GMT > A few years back I bumped into the USS > "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, 'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness? Anyway, our latest version of the Guerriere is almost ready. What with our Turbo thrust, surface to surface missiles and Cloaking device, we're pretty confident we stand a chance this time.
BTW, I have resisted for long enough. (Look away NOW Laura)
Laura, you shouldn't still be reading ...
Last Chance Saloon for Perfessor Spira ...
All together now :
Wet Sails in the Sunset Way out on the Sea ....
-- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply
Dr Robin Bignall - 29 Dec 2003 02:01 GMT >> A few years back I bumped into the USS >> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, > >'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness? Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
M. J. Powell - 29 Dec 2003 12:18 GMT >>> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, >> >>'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness? > >Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia. Then they send you to HMS Nottingham....
Mike
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Armond Perretta - 29 Dec 2003 15:39 GMT >>> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia. I sometimes like "bumped into" and even "park the boat" when describing certain nautical situations or encounters. I suspect it's reverse snobbery or perhaps an altered form of straight-ahead snobbery. Not really sure about this.
In response to Robin, it happens that a few years back a well-known racing sailor actually _did_ bump into Australia on one leg of a single-handed round-the-world event. He fell asleep and the yacht proceeded under autopilot and self-steering onto the coast of the southwest part of Australia.
I have not heard that a military tribunal of any sort was called up to look into this.
 Signature Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
Robert Bannister - 30 Dec 2003 00:17 GMT >>> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, >> >>'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness? > > Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia. That English captain wasn't to know, but we have made it easier for Australian sailors: the naval bases in Perth and Sydney are both called Garden Island, so that in the event of a 3000 km navigation error, they can say they were in the right place.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Laura F Spira - 29 Dec 2003 07:16 GMT >> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Wet Sails in the Sunset > Way out on the Sea .... Thank you for your forbearance and concern, Mr D, but the subject line did it immediately. Not a bad tune to be troubled by, AFAIC.
More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone. Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult.
 Signature Laura (emulate St. George for email)
John Dean - 29 Dec 2003 13:02 GMT >>> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that > is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult. There are tens of thousands of ring tones all over the Net. Two thoughts - the theme from Coronation St? Or for utter originality, birdsong from the Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds. I myself have the blackbird and, since I rarely have my phone switched on, whenever I hear it I immediately think 'What the f**k's that?' http://rspb.mobileavenue.net/
-- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply
Laura F Spira - 30 Dec 2003 08:58 GMT >>>> A few years back I bumped into the USS >>>>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > There are tens of thousands of ring tones all over the Net. Two thoughts -
> the theme from Coronation St? Or for utter originality, birdsong from the > Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds. I myself have the blackbird and,
> since I rarely have my phone switched on, whenever I hear it I immediately
> think 'What the f**k's that?' > http://rspb.mobileavenue.net/ Thanks for your suggestion. I had it on vibrate all day yesterday and that seemed to work rather well, after my initial worry that there was something alive in my handbag...
I am old enough to remember the advent of the Trimphone which warbled and caused an uncle visiting from the US to exclaim in horror, on hearing it ring, "You own a *boid*?"
Re STS: the film "Touching the Void" contains the very worst experience of STS that can possibly be imagined, involving Boney M. I don't think I shall ever complain about the affliction again. Excellent film. Do see it if you get the chance, but I advise you to wrap up warmly and take a drink with you.
 Signature Laura (emulate St. George for email)
david56 - 31 Dec 2003 09:52 GMT lfspira@brookes.ac.uk spake thus:
> I am old enough to remember the advent of the Trimphone which warbled > and caused an uncle visiting from the US to exclaim in horror, on > hearing it ring, "You own a *boid*?" We had our first Trimphone in our first house in Manchester, about 1982. Outside, a solitary starling learned to emulate the ringing tone, and used to perch on a telegraph pole in the street, confusing all the neighbours who would rush to answer their phones.
 Signature David =====
Laura F Spira - 31 Dec 2003 15:17 GMT > lfspira@brookes.ac.uk spake thus: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tone, and used to perch on a telegraph pole in the street, confusing > all the neighbours who would rush to answer their phones. Our Trimphone was one of the earliest in 1971. It was quite common to hear birds singing exactly the same notes so I always thought the tone had been based on birdsong.
We seem to hear very little birdsong these days. We have wood pigeons, who sit on the chimney so that their very irritating cooing is amplified into the living room, some extremely noisy magpies and a few silently sinister crows.
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Robert Bannister - 30 Dec 2003 00:20 GMT >> Wet Sails in the Sunset >> Way out on the Sea .... > > Thank you for your forbearance and concern, Mr D, but the subject line > did it immediately. Not a bad tune to be troubled by, AFAIC. Hmph! It's still going round and round in my head.
> More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am > having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone. > Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that > is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult. My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or quite long classical pieces that can be quite soothing.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Mike Lyle - 30 Dec 2003 11:19 GMT [...]
> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They all > seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or quite long > classical pieces that can be quite soothing. I use "Matilda" here in UK, where also -- so far -- it's proved unique.
Mike.
mUs1Ka - 30 Dec 2003 13:04 GMT >> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They >> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or >> quite long classical pieces that can be quite soothing. > > I use "Matilda" here in UK, where also -- so far -- it's proved > unique. I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers". m.
Tony Cooper - 30 Dec 2003 14:32 GMT >>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They >>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers". >m. I use the regular ring tone the way the phone came set. I find it's a very distinctive sound in a room full of phone users and all other phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind Mice. It's basic black which makes it easy to spot.
Ayaz Ahmed Khan - 31 Dec 2003 18:22 GMT "Tony Cooper" typed:
>>>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. >>>> They all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind > Mice. It's basic black which makes it easy to spot.
I don't have a mobile phone, but one of my friend from high-school recorded the terrible, screaming sound that comes out from the black smith's shop, and set that sound as his ring-tone. It was quite a unique sound.
 Signature Ayaz Ahmed Khan
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Robert Bannister - 01 Jan 2004 00:11 GMT >>>>My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They >>>>all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind Mice. > It's basic black which makes it easy to spot. But don't you occasionally get confused when the television's on? I certianly confuse TV rings with those of my 'real' phone. NB I don't watch television myself, but my mother often has it on at a high volume.
 Signature Rob Bannister
Dr Robin Bignall - 30 Dec 2003 23:56 GMT >>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They >>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers". I have the theme from the "A-team".
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
chrissy - 31 Dec 2003 05:13 GMT > >>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They > >>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I have the theme from the "A-team". And I've settled for the sound of a galloping and whinnying horse ...
Chrissy
Geoff Butler - 30 Dec 2003 19:21 GMT >More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am >having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone. >Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that >is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult. You may remember the Stylophone, a musical instrument (in the loosest terms of the word 'musical') invented by Rolf Harris some forty years ago. It certainly played notes, but there was a lack of melody, depth, timbre, and pleasure in those notes. It was, however, more pleasurable to listen to than mobile phone ring tones.
I detest hearing the sax riff from "Baker Street" on the stylophone, or "Layla" on the stylophone, or the "1812 Overture" on the stylophone, and I feel inclined to dump the offending phone in a bucket of water without detaching it from the offender's ear.
I'd recommend the one that goes "ring-ring, pause, ring-ring, pause".
 Signature -ler
Matti Lamprhey - 30 Dec 2003 21:01 GMT "Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote...
> >More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am > >having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > timbre, and pleasure in those notes. It was, however, more pleasurable > to listen to than mobile phone ring tones. [...] I had several months between school and university, and the December was spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers department store, aka Allders in Croydon. The best selling item was the Stylophone, I fear, and this may explain my unaccountable aversion to mobile phones all these years later.
Rolf was just the celebrity endorsement, in fact. It was actually invented by a Brit named Brian Jarvis.
Matti
Geoff Butler - 30 Dec 2003 21:57 GMT >"Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote... >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Rolf was just the celebrity endorsement, in fact. It was actually >invented by a Brit named Brian Jarvis. So, Rolf was an accessory to the crime, and the whole thing was a conspiracy.
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Dr Robin Bignall - 31 Dec 2003 00:00 GMT >"Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote... >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers >department store, aka Allders in Croydon. I lived in Wallington 1967 to 73, and often used to shop in Allders. Would that have been during your time?
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
Matti Lamprhey - 31 Dec 2003 12:07 GMT "Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote...
> >I had several months between school and university, and the December > >was spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers > >department store, aka Allders in Croydon. > > > I lived in Wallington 1967 to 73, and often used to shop in Allders. > Would that have been during your time? I lived in Coulsdon until 1970, and worked at Allders in December 1969. So we probably bumped into each other at some point, Robin!
obAUE: Coulsdon was pronounced "Coolsdon" by most people, but "Coalsdon" by some older residents. I don't know if that's died out completely now. Wallington is "Wollington", of course.
Matti
Dr Robin Bignall - 01 Jan 2004 00:46 GMT >"Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote... >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I lived in Coulsdon until 1970, and worked at Allders in December 1969. >So we probably bumped into each other at some point, Robin! Gosh! Just think, one of these days we might meet and each, pointing at the other, might exclaim "It's YOU!"
Then again, we might not. Isn't life a puzzle.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
david56 - 28 Dec 2003 10:32 GMT newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net spake thus:
> >> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home > >> with a wet sail'. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be familiar > with this phrase. I don't recognise the phrase, but I do recognise the practice. As a teenager I spent all my spare time sailing dinghies - teaching and racing. We used to throw water at the sails when the wind was very slight. I'm not entirely sure whey we did this - the behaviour was learned from our elders - but I suppose it was to make the sails hang more heavily and take the wind better.
There are issues around this. Modern synthetic sails do not take on water in the same way as cotton sails, so I guess whatever benefit was gained would no longer work. In very light winds, a dinghy is heeled over hard to leeward to try to assist the boom to pull down on the sail, and the sailors all crowd to the front of the boat to put the bow down - this reduces the surface area in contact with the water and so cuts drag.
When racing, throwing water at the sails was frowned upon as the act of collecting water in a bailer could be construed as paddling. You certainly wouldn't collect the water in such a way as to paddle backwards.
 Signature David =====
Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:48 GMT > I don't recognise the phrase, but I do recognise the practice. As a > teenager I spent all my spare time sailing dinghies - teaching and > racing. We used to throw water at the sails when the wind was very > slight. I'm not entirely sure whey we did this - the behaviour was > learned from our elders - but I suppose it was to make the sails > hang more heavily and take the wind better. Intentionally heeling the boat in light air is, as you note below, pretty much a standard tactic. Wetting the sails may be a method to help in such conditions, but I am rather sure that the Race Committee would not be very happy about what is perhaps questionable sportsmanship (also as you note below).
> There are issues around this. Modern synthetic sails do not take on > water in the same way as cotton sails, so I guess whatever benefit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > put the bow down - this reduces the surface area in contact with the > water and so cuts drag. This is not only a dinghy tactic, but is done also in the cruising classes. A bit manic, perhaps, but there _are_ such skippers.
> When racing, throwing water at the sails was frowned upon as the act > of collecting water in a bailer could be construed as paddling. You > certainly wouldn't collect the water in such a way as to paddle > backwards.
 Signature Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.tripod.com
Bob Cunningham - 29 Dec 2003 15:53 GMT > The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being > plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about > to do Rey).
> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home with a > wet sail'.
> I'd always thought this meant making a late (but rapid) run from > behind to threaten victory. But apparently, boats don't travel all > that well with wet sails. (What I know about boats could be written on > a postage stamp with a felt tip pen, so I'm ready to stand corrected > here.)
> If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be > used as it currently is? I don't. But the subject line brings to mind _A Wet Sheet and a Flowing Sea_, a poem that was written by the 19th-century poet Allan Cunningham and that I think is about wet sails.
I've never read the poem, but it's title has always seemed somewhat amusing, suggestive as it is of nocturnal enuresis.
Okay, now I've read the poem (at http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ). I get the impression the poet thought wet sails were good.
Peter Duncanson - 29 Dec 2003 16:03 GMT >> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being >> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ). I get the impression >the poet thought wet sails were good. In sailing terminology a 'sheet' is a rope or chain used for a particular purpose. Merriam-Webster OnLine: Main Entry: 4sheet Function: noun Etymology: Middle English shete, from Old English scEata lower corner of a sail; akin to Old English scyte sheet Date: 13th century 1 : a rope or chain that regulates the angle at which a sail is set in relation to the wind 2 plural : the spaces at either end of an open boat not occupied by thwarts
: foresheets and stern sheets together  Signature Peter Duncanson UK (posting from a.e.u)
Bob Cunningham - 29 Dec 2003 16:39 GMT > >> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being > >> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > 2 plural : the spaces at either end of an open boat not occupied by thwarts > : foresheets and stern sheets together Okay, thank you. But if a sheet (1) is wet, won't a sail be likely to be wet, also?
Mike Lyle - 29 Dec 2003 18:29 GMT [...]
> I don't. But the subject line brings to mind _A Wet Sheet > and a Flowing Sea_, a poem that was written by the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ). I get the impression > the poet thought wet sails were good. From the text provided it seems that only the *sheet* was necessarily wet; and a sheet is a rope, not a sail. The sheet will get wet because it's low down, and you handle it all the time as it controls the sail's attitude.
It occurs to me that when sailing on salt water you might considerably decrease the porosity of old hand-woven sailcloth by soaking it: evaporation would leave salt crystals behind in the weave.
I've read that one of the reasons *America* won the celebrated race was that she had closely-woven sails, as against more openly-woven British ones. But I don't know how much difference that would have made, and it seems a touch unlikely to me.
One good way of getting your sail wet is, I remember from youth, to capsize. After a capsize, it would be a notable feat to scream up from behind to victory: could this idea be behind the early uses of the expression?
Mike.
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