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wet sails

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chrissy - 27 Dec 2003 04:55 GMT
The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about
to do Rey).

One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home with a
wet sail'.

I'd always thought this meant making a late (but rapid) run from
behind to threaten victory. But apparently, boats don't travel all
that well with wet sails. (What I know about boats could be written on
a postage stamp with a felt tip pen, so I'm ready to stand corrected
here.)

If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be
used as it currently is?

cheers

Chrissy
Christopher Johnson - 27 Dec 2003 05:13 GMT

> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be
> used as it currently is?

See the middle of the following page:

http://www.anu.edu.au/ANDC/Ozwords/June2002/Mailbag.html

Also:

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html

Signature

Christopher

(Change 3032 to 3232 to reply by private e-mail)

chrissy - 27 Dec 2003 22:49 GMT
>  
> > The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html

Thanks Christopher, for affirming that I have the meaning
approximately correct. I'm still wondering about why that particular
phrase is used to convey the idea.

cheers

Chrissy
Armond Perretta - 27 Dec 2003 23:04 GMT
>> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home
>> with a wet sail'.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/25/messages/975.html

I have been losing sailboat races for quite some time.  In those rare
instances where a loss failed to occur, I have never heard the captioned
phrase used in connection with a come-from-behind performance, at least not
in the US.  In fact I have not heard the phrase at all in Leftpondia, and I
listen carefully enough.

I say this taking into account the habit of some sailors to engage in
alcohol-enhanced post-race explanations of what would have occurred on the
course if  the other participants had been as capable as the sailor
providing the analysis.

The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be familiar
with this phrase.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

John Dean - 28 Dec 2003 00:18 GMT
>>> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home
>>> with a wet sail'.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be
> familiar with this phrase.

http://www.history.rochester.edu/Scientific_American/vol1/vol1n007/p1c1.htm

Lost Time never regained.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
[WRITTEN ON HEARING A PERSON REMARK THAT HE INTENDED "TO KETCH UP LOST TIME
WITH A WET SAIL."]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

When sailors, heedless of their duty, sleep,
Neglecting every favorable gale,
They'll find it hard their after-course to keep,
With a wet sail.

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which all should watch with carefulness to hail;
Once miss'd, it scarcely can be caught again,
With a wet sail.

And yet who wishes cautiously to live,
Fixing no hopes on phantoms which may fail,
Will not a chase to every object give
With a wet sail.

The swiftest do not always first arrive,
In war the strongest do not aye prevail;
The keep the golden means, nor ceaseless drive
With a wet sail.

Think not to eagerness alone is given
The happy mind which nothing can assail;
He's on the wrong track who would enter heaven
With a wet sail.

=====

Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been
known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an
aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us)
http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html

<< The log records at least hourly adjustments to the sails, still seeking
any and every advantage. At dawn on the 19th, four British ships still were
in sight, but at least twelve miles distant. Not satisfied, Hull had his
crew begin wetting the sails with sea water brought aboard with fire pumps.
Constitution sped on, and at 8:15 the British were seen to give up, change
course to the north, and, Hull thought, probably return to their cruising
station off New York. >>

And in the US Civil War:

http://www.usigs.org/library/books/ma/Marblehead1880/Marblehead015.htm

<< The men were constantly employed in wetting the sails, and as the wind
filled them, and the speed of the ship increased, the stratagem had the
desired effect. >>
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
meirman - 28 Dec 2003 02:01 GMT
In alt.english.usage on Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:18:08 -0000 "John Dean"
<john-dean@frag.lineone.net> posted:

>Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been
>known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an
>aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us)
>http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html

It may be that the air goes through dry sails, at a slower rate than
if there were no sail there at all, but enough to lessen the effect of
the sail.

I noted this month week that the Wright brothers used a very tight
woven cloth for their wings, many threads per inch, that isn't made
anymore and took some time to get recreated.  Perhaps they needed a
tight weave to keep the air from going through the cloth.

I think we have all noticed that air doesn't go through wet cloth,
without substantial propelsion.

(OTOH, when it rained, as it did on the anniversary of the first
flight, the rain increases the weight of the plane (something that
doesn't matter as much with boats), and it changes the shape of the
wing to a less efficient shape (that's the major problem with ice on
the wing with a modern plane.)  So it's not surprising the plane
wouldn't fly well on a wet day.

><< The log records at least hourly adjustments to the sails, still seeking
>any and every advantage. At dawn on the 19th, four British ships still were
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>filled them, and the speed of the ship increased, the stratagem had the
>desired effect. >>

s/ meirman    If you are emailing me please  
say if you are posting the same response.

Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
            Indianapolis,   7 years
            Chicago,        6 years
            Brooklyn NY    12 years
            Baltimore      20 years
John Dean - 28 Dec 2003 13:40 GMT
> In alt.english.usage on Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:18:08 -0000 "John Dean"
> <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I think we have all noticed that air doesn't go through wet cloth,
> without substantial propelsion.

That makes sense, but, as you note below, a*very* wet piece of cloth makes
things worse. There's obviously a break-even point.

> (OTOH, when it rained, as it did on the anniversary of the first
> flight, the rain increases the weight of the plane (something that
> doesn't matter as much with boats), and it changes the shape of the
> wing to a less efficient shape (that's the major problem with ice on
> the wing with a modern plane.)  So it's not surprising the plane
> wouldn't fly well on a wet day.

--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:48 GMT
> ... a*very* wet piece of
> cloth makes things worse. There's obviously a break-even point.

Wet sails (specifically wet cotton sails) are going to be heavier than dry
sails.  This puts more weight aloft, which is never a good thing.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Dr Robin Bignall - 28 Dec 2003 14:52 GMT
>Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind has been
>known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and whether we need an
>aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us)
>http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html

It's just a guess, because I forgot my physics more years ago than you've
had hot dinners, and have never done any sailing, but maybe wetting them
makes them more controllable and stops them from flapping around, thus
enabling the boat to stay exactly on course and reduce time-wasting
tacking.

Signature

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT
> Seems the practice of wetting sails to take advantage of the wind
> has been known a while (though I'm not sure how it works and
> whether we need an aerodynamicist or a physicist to tell us)
> http://www3.teleplex.net/timonier/speaks/book04.html

This practice is no longer significant since cotton sails are no longer
seen, save for a few replicas or the few remaining ships and boats of
historic interest.  A few years back I bumped into the USS "Constitution"
actually under sail off Boston Harbor, and it's possible she was fitted with
cotton sails.  I cannot recall.

Today's "sailcloth" is almost entirely based on synthetic materials, and
exotic ones at that.  There could possibly be some interest in a.u.e
regarding the use of "sailcloth" to describe such materials, but I will not
tarry here.  With synthetics, and in particular with some of the more exotic
aramid materials, sails become essentially laminated plastics and "wetting"
the sails has no effect.  These products are of little interest to average
sailors because they are very expensive and are impractical from the
standpoint of durability.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

John Dean - 29 Dec 2003 00:41 GMT
>   A few years back I bumped into the USS
> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,

'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness?
Anyway, our latest version of the Guerriere is almost ready. What with our
Turbo thrust, surface to surface missiles and Cloaking device, we're pretty
confident we stand a chance this time.

BTW, I have resisted for long enough. (Look away NOW Laura)

Laura, you shouldn't still be reading ...

Last Chance Saloon for Perfessor Spira ...

All together now :

Wet Sails in the Sunset
Way out on the Sea ....

--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Dr Robin Bignall - 29 Dec 2003 02:01 GMT
>>   A few years back I bumped into the USS
>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
>
>'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness?

Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia.

Signature

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

M. J. Powell - 29 Dec 2003 12:18 GMT
>>>   A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
>>
>>'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness?
>
>Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia.

Then they send you to HMS Nottingham....

Mike
Signature

M.J.Powell

Armond Perretta - 29 Dec 2003 15:39 GMT
>>>   A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia.

I sometimes like "bumped into" and even "park the boat" when describing
certain nautical situations or encounters.  I suspect it's reverse snobbery
or perhaps an altered form of straight-ahead snobbery.  Not really sure
about this.

In response to Robin, it happens that a few years back a well-known racing
sailor actually _did_ bump into Australia on one leg of a single-handed
round-the-world event.  He fell asleep and the yacht proceeded under
autopilot and self-steering onto the coast of the southwest part of
Australia.

I have not heard that a military tribunal of any sort was called up to look
into this.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Robert Bannister - 30 Dec 2003 00:17 GMT
>>>  A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
>>
>>'Bumped into'! Don't they court martial you for that kind of carelessness?
>
> Only if you inadvertently bump into Australia.

That English captain wasn't to know, but we have made it easier for
Australian sailors: the naval bases in Perth and Sydney are both called
Garden Island, so that in the event of a 3000 km navigation error, they
can say they were in the right place.

Signature

Rob Bannister

Laura F Spira - 29 Dec 2003 07:16 GMT
>>  A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Wet Sails in the Sunset
> Way out on the Sea ....

Thank you for your forbearance and concern, Mr D, but the subject line
did it immediately. Not a bad tune to be troubled by, AFAIC.

More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am
having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone.
Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that
is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

John Dean - 29 Dec 2003 13:02 GMT
>>>  A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>> "Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that
> is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult.

There are tens of thousands of ring tones all over the Net. Two thoughts -
the theme from Coronation St? Or for utter originality, birdsong from the
Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds. I myself have the blackbird and,
since I rarely have my phone switched on, whenever I hear it I immediately
think 'What the f**k's that?'
http://rspb.mobileavenue.net/

--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
Laura F Spira - 30 Dec 2003 08:58 GMT
>>>> A few years back I bumped into the USS
>>>>"Constitution" actually under sail off Boston Harbor,
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> There are tens of thousands of ring tones all over the Net. Two
thoughts -
> the theme from Coronation St? Or for utter originality, birdsong from the
> Royal Society for the Prevention of Birds. I myself have the
blackbird and,
> since I rarely have my phone switched on, whenever I hear it I
immediately
> think 'What the f**k's that?'
> http://rspb.mobileavenue.net/

Thanks for your suggestion. I had it on vibrate all day yesterday and
that seemed to work rather well, after my initial worry that there was
something alive in my handbag...

I am old enough to remember the advent of the Trimphone which warbled
and caused an uncle visiting from the US to exclaim in horror, on
hearing it ring, "You own a *boid*?"

Re STS: the film "Touching the Void" contains the very worst experience
of STS that can possibly be imagined, involving Boney M. I don't think I
shall ever complain about the affliction again. Excellent film. Do see
it if you get the chance, but I advise you to wrap up warmly and take a
drink with you.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

david56 - 31 Dec 2003 09:52 GMT
lfspira@brookes.ac.uk spake thus:

> I am old enough to remember the advent of the Trimphone which warbled
> and caused an uncle visiting from the US to exclaim in horror, on
> hearing it ring, "You own a *boid*?"

We had our first Trimphone in our first house in Manchester, about
1982.  Outside, a solitary starling learned to emulate the ringing
tone, and used to perch on a telegraph pole in the street, confusing
all the neighbours who would rush to answer their phones.

Signature

David
=====

Laura F Spira - 31 Dec 2003 15:17 GMT
> lfspira@brookes.ac.uk spake thus:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> tone, and used to perch on a telegraph pole in the street, confusing
> all the neighbours who would rush to answer their phones.

Our Trimphone was one of the earliest in 1971. It was quite common to
hear birds singing exactly the same notes so I always thought the tone
had been based on birdsong.

We seem to hear very little birdsong these days. We have wood pigeons,
who sit on the chimney so that their very irritating cooing is amplified
into the living room, some extremely noisy magpies and a few silently
sinister crows.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Robert Bannister - 30 Dec 2003 00:20 GMT
>> Wet Sails in the Sunset
>> Way out on the Sea ....
>
> Thank you for your forbearance and concern, Mr D, but the subject line
> did it immediately. Not a bad tune to be troubled by, AFAIC.

Hmph! It's still going round and round in my head.

> More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am
> having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone.
> Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that
> is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult.

My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They all
seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or quite long
classical pieces that can be quite soothing.

Signature

Rob Bannister

Mike Lyle - 30 Dec 2003 11:19 GMT
[...]
> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They all
> seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or quite long
> classical pieces that can be quite soothing.

I use "Matilda" here in UK, where also -- so far -- it's proved unique.

Mike.
mUs1Ka - 30 Dec 2003 13:04 GMT
>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They
>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or
>> quite long classical pieces that can be quite soothing.
>
> I use "Matilda" here in UK, where also -- so far -- it's proved
> unique.

I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers".
m.
Tony Cooper - 30 Dec 2003 14:32 GMT
>>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They
>>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers".
>m.

I use the regular ring tone the way the phone came set.  I find it's a
very distinctive sound in a room full of phone users and all other
phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind Mice.
It's basic black which makes it easy to spot.
Ayaz Ahmed Khan - 31 Dec 2003 18:22 GMT
"Tony Cooper" typed:

>>>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia.
>>>> They all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind
> Mice. It's basic black which makes it easy to spot.


I don't have a mobile phone, but one of my friend from high-school
recorded the terrible, screaming sound that comes out from the black
smith's shop, and set that sound as his ring-tone. It was quite a
unique sound.

Signature

Ayaz Ahmed Khan

Yours Forever in,
Cyberspace.

http://adic.netfirms.com/fastce/home.html

Robert Bannister - 01 Jan 2004 00:11 GMT
>>>>My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They
>>>>all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> phones are set to Scheherezade, Looney Tunes, or The Three Blind Mice.
> It's basic black which makes it easy to spot.

But don't you occasionally get confused when the television's on? I
certianly confuse TV rings with those of my 'real' phone.
NB I don't watch television myself, but my mother often has it on at a
high volume.
Signature

Rob Bannister

Dr Robin Bignall - 30 Dec 2003 23:56 GMT
>>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They
>>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>I use "Thunderbirds" or "The Archers".

I have the theme from the "A-team".

Signature

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

chrissy - 31 Dec 2003 05:13 GMT
> >>> My choice of Waltzing Matilda seems to be unique in Australia. They
> >>> all seem to go for rap, which I have thankfully never heard, or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I have the theme from the "A-team".

And I've settled for the sound of a galloping and whinnying horse ...

Chrissy
Geoff Butler - 30 Dec 2003 19:21 GMT
>More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am
>having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone.
>Finding something unusual enough for me to recognise my own phone that
>is also pleasant to hear seems remarkably difficult.

You may remember the Stylophone, a musical instrument (in the loosest
terms of the word 'musical') invented by Rolf Harris some forty years
ago. It certainly played notes, but there was a lack of melody, depth,
timbre, and pleasure in those notes. It was, however, more pleasurable
to listen to than mobile phone ring tones.

I detest hearing the sax riff from "Baker Street" on the stylophone, or
"Layla" on the stylophone, or the "1812 Overture" on the stylophone, and
I feel inclined to dump the offending phone in a bucket of water without
detaching it from the offender's ear.

I'd recommend the one that goes "ring-ring, pause, ring-ring, pause".

Signature

-ler

Matti Lamprhey - 30 Dec 2003 21:01 GMT
"Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote...

> >More musically problematic, I have acquired a new mobile phone and am
> >having considerable difficulty in selecting an appropriate ring tone.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> timbre, and pleasure in those notes. It was, however, more pleasurable
> to listen to than mobile phone ring tones. [...]

I had several months between school and university, and the December was
spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers
department store, aka Allders in Croydon.  The best selling item was the
Stylophone, I fear, and this may explain my unaccountable aversion to
mobile phones all these years later.

Rolf was just the celebrity endorsement, in fact.  It was actually
invented by a Brit named Brian Jarvis.

Matti
Geoff Butler - 30 Dec 2003 21:57 GMT
>"Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote...
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Rolf was just the celebrity endorsement, in fact.  It was actually
>invented by a Brit named Brian Jarvis.

So, Rolf was an accessory to the crime, and the whole thing was a
conspiracy.

Signature

-ler

Dr Robin Bignall - 31 Dec 2003 00:00 GMT
>"Geoff Butler" <geoff@gbutler.demon.co.uk> wrote...
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers
>department store, aka Allders in Croydon.  

I lived in Wallington 1967 to 73, and often used to shop in Allders. Would
that have been during your time?

Signature

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

Matti Lamprhey - 31 Dec 2003 12:07 GMT
"Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote...

> >I had several months between school and university, and the December
> >was spent in the Electrical Department of the local Grace Brothers
> >department store, aka Allders in Croydon.
> >
> I lived in Wallington 1967 to 73, and often used to shop in Allders.
> Would that have been during your time?

I lived in Coulsdon until 1970, and worked at Allders in December 1969.
So we probably bumped into each other at some point, Robin!

obAUE: Coulsdon was pronounced "Coolsdon" by most people, but "Coalsdon"
by some older residents.  I don't know if that's died out completely
now.  Wallington is "Wollington", of course.

Matti
Dr Robin Bignall - 01 Jan 2004 00:46 GMT
>"Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote...
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>I lived in Coulsdon until 1970, and worked at Allders in December 1969.
>So we probably bumped into each other at some point, Robin!

Gosh! Just think, one of these days we might meet and each, pointing at the
other, might exclaim "It's YOU!"

Then again, we might not. Isn't life a puzzle.

Signature

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

david56 - 28 Dec 2003 10:32 GMT
newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net spake thus:

> >> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home
> >> with a wet sail'.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> The average US sailor, drunk or otherwise, will probably _not_ be familiar
> with this phrase.

I don't recognise the phrase, but I do recognise the practice.  As a
teenager I spent all my spare time sailing dinghies - teaching and
racing.  We used to throw water at the sails when the wind was very
slight.  I'm not entirely sure whey we did this - the behaviour was
learned from our elders - but I suppose it was to make the sails hang
more heavily and take the wind better.

There are issues around this.  Modern synthetic sails do not take on
water in the same way as cotton sails, so I guess whatever benefit
was gained would no longer work.  In very light winds, a dinghy is
heeled over hard to leeward to try to assist the boom to pull down on
the sail, and the sailors all crowd to the front of the boat to put
the bow down - this reduces the surface area in contact with the
water and so cuts drag.

When racing, throwing water at the sails was frowned upon as the act
of collecting water in a bailer could be construed as paddling.  You
certainly wouldn't collect the water in such a way as to paddle
backwards.

Signature

David
=====

Armond Perretta - 28 Dec 2003 22:48 GMT
> I don't recognise the phrase, but I do recognise the practice.  As a
> teenager I spent all my spare time sailing dinghies - teaching and
> racing.  We used to throw water at the sails when the wind was very
> slight.  I'm not entirely sure whey we did this - the behaviour was
> learned from our elders - but I suppose it was to make the sails
> hang more heavily and take the wind better.

Intentionally heeling the boat in light air is, as you note below, pretty
much a standard tactic.  Wetting the sails may be a method to help in such
conditions, but I am rather sure that the Race Committee would not be very
happy about what is perhaps questionable sportsmanship (also as you note
below).

> There are issues around this.  Modern synthetic sails do not take on
> water in the same way as cotton sails, so I guess whatever benefit
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> put the bow down - this reduces the surface area in contact with the
> water and so cuts drag.

This is not only a dinghy tactic, but is done also in the cruising classes.
A bit manic, perhaps, but there _are_ such skippers.

> When racing, throwing water at the sails was frowned upon as the act
> of collecting water in a bailer could be construed as paddling.  You
> certainly wouldn't collect the water in such a way as to paddle
> backwards.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Bob Cunningham - 29 Dec 2003 15:53 GMT
> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about
> to do Rey).

> One term that I always thought I'd understood was 'coming home with a
> wet sail'.

> I'd always thought this meant making a late (but rapid) run from
> behind to threaten victory. But apparently, boats don't travel all
> that well with wet sails. (What I know about boats could be written on
> a postage stamp with a felt tip pen, so I'm ready to stand corrected
> here.)

> If this is so, does anyone know how or why this metaphor came to be
> used as it currently is?

I don't.  But the subject line brings to mind _A Wet Sheet
and a Flowing Sea_, a poem that was written by the
19th-century poet Allan Cunningham and that I think is about
wet sails.

I've never read the poem, but it's title has always seemed
somewhat amusing, suggestive as it is of nocturnal enuresis.

Okay, now I've read the poem (at
http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ).  I get the impression
the poet thought wet sails were good.
Peter Duncanson - 29 Dec 2003 16:03 GMT
>> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
>> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ).  I get the impression
>the poet thought wet sails were good.

In sailing terminology a 'sheet' is a rope or chain used for a particular
purpose.
Merriam-Webster OnLine:
Main Entry: 4sheet
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English shete, from Old English scEata lower corner of a
sail; akin to Old English scyte sheet
Date: 13th century
1 : a rope or chain that regulates the angle at which a sail is set in
relation to the wind
2 plural : the spaces at either end of an open boat not occupied by thwarts
: foresheets and stern sheets together
Signature

Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from a.e.u)

Bob Cunningham - 29 Dec 2003 16:39 GMT
> >> The Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race is on at the moment, and we are being
> >> plied with all sorts of boating metaphors. (Sorry for what I'm about
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> 2 plural : the spaces at either end of an open boat not occupied by thwarts
> : foresheets and stern sheets together

Okay, thank you.  But if a sheet (1) is wet, won't a sail be
likely to be wet, also?
Mike Lyle - 29 Dec 2003 18:29 GMT
[...]
> I don't.  But the subject line brings to mind _A Wet Sheet
> and a Flowing Sea_, a poem that was written by the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> http://www.bartleby.com/41/464.html ).  I get the impression
> the poet thought wet sails were good.

From the text provided it seems that only the *sheet* was necessarily
wet; and a sheet is a rope, not a sail. The sheet will get wet because
it's low down, and you handle it all the time as it controls the
sail's attitude.

It occurs to me that when sailing on salt water you might considerably
decrease the porosity of old hand-woven sailcloth by soaking it:
evaporation would leave salt crystals behind in the weave.

I've read that one of the reasons *America* won the celebrated race
was that she had closely-woven sails, as against more openly-woven
British ones. But I don't know how much difference that would have
made, and it seems a touch unlikely to me.

One good way of getting your sail wet is, I remember from youth, to
capsize. After a capsize, it would be a notable feat to scream up from
behind to victory: could this idea be behind the early uses of the
expression?

Mike.
 
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