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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004The Quiet American - Questions
Hello, everyone: Re: The Quiet American, by Graham Greene Would appreciate clarifications wrt the CAPITALIZED items: 1. ------- Granger flung his burden on to a chair. Then he noticed Phuong [a Vietnamese lady, Thomas's lover]. ... 'Where did you find here. Didn't know you HAD A WHISTLE in you." ------- Q. Is this: - child's penis, slang [19th century], as found in J. Green's Slang Dictionary; however the novel is placed in 1950s or - Magic Flute, as in Mozart 2. ------- 'I left her, too.' 'Why?' Why indeed? 'We are fools,' I said, 'when we love. I was terrified of losing her. I thought I saw her changing - I don't know if she really was, but I couldn't bear the uncertainty any longer. I ran towards the finish line like a coward runs toward the enemy and wins a medal. I wanted to get DEATH OVER.' ------- Q. Is this: - is DEATH used here similarly to a participle e.g. in : "I wanted to get tramped over" or - does this mean: "I wanted to get over death"? If so, why the inversion, is it better stressed this way? 3. ------- 'Sit down and have another Scotch, Pyle.' 'MUSTN'T drink all your whisky,' he muttered. ------- BTW, Pyle is an American. My understanding of this is "I shouldn't drink all your whisky". If correct, is MUSTN'T in this context obsolete in **2003** American English? Thank you very much for any pointers. Marius Hancu > Hello, everyone: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > or > - Magic Flute, as in Mozart I don't think it's either of these, but it isn't a familiar expression to me. > 2. > ------- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > - does this mean: "I wanted to get over death"? If so, why the > inversion, is it better stressed this way? Again, neither of these. It means 'I wanted to get death over and done with' - that is, he wanted to die quickly and without waiting. > 3. > ------- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > correct, is MUSTN'T in this context obsolete in **2003** American > English? No, it's a perfectly normal usage. 'I mustn't' is 'I must not'. It's stronger than 'I shouldn't', which implies 'but I will'. Non-English speakers are often confused by 'mustn't', as they think it is the negative of 'must', but this is usually said as 'needn't' or 'don't have to'. Instead, 'I mustn't do X' can be thought of as 'I must do not-X'. Sorry, that's not very clear, is it! Danny >Hello, everyone: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >or >- Magic Flute, as in Mozart I don't know, and I cannot get at my copy of the book at this moment as my wife is asleep in the room where it's kept. I'll make a note to check tomorrow, when I can see more context. It would help me to know which chapter it's in. >2. >------- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >- does this mean: "I wanted to get over death"? If so, why the >inversion, is it better stressed this way? Danny answered this one. >3. >------- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >correct, is MUSTN'T in this context obsolete in **2003** American >English? I doubt it. As in British English, it's a contraction of "must not", just as "isn't" is a contraction of "is not".  Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England >>Hello, everyone: >> >>Re: The Quiet American, by Graham Greene >> >>Would appreciate clarifications wrt the CAPITALIZED items: <snip> >>3. >>------- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I doubt it. As in British English, it's a contraction of "must not", just >as "isn't" is a contraction of "is not". "Mustn't" isn't *much* used in the US nowadays, but I think most people would understand it and not consider it strange. It's stronger than "shouldn't"--"I should not" usually means it would be bad form, or a mistake; "I must not" means it's forbidden, or absolutely wrong. Carter Jefferson carterj98@mindspring.com http://carterj.homestead.com/ >>>Hello, everyone: >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >than "shouldn't"--"I should not" usually means it would be bad form, >or a mistake; "I must not" means it's forbidden, or absolutely wrong. Over here, it depends. I think I was about 7 when I first heard, in primary school, "My mother has told me that I must not swear. sh.t, bugger, arsehole, I don't care." <Giggle> With adults, the strength of "I must not" varies with the level of temptation versus the strength of will! BTW, Carter, I have located a dozen or so Greenes in my collection but cannot find "The Quiet American", which annoys me, for I know I had it and I rarely if ever dispose of books that I have bought. Sorry, the local library is shut until the 5th, so I can't tackle your first question. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England > >1. > >------- [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > tomorrow, when I can see more context. It would help me to know which > chapter it's in. First of all, sorry to have mistyped "here" instead of "her". Might be essential to a correct understanding:-)). Thus the para is: >------- >Granger flung his burden on to a chair. Then he noticed Phuong [a >Vietnamese lady, Thomas's lover]. ... 'Where did you find her. Didn't >know you HAD A WHISTLE in you." >------- Chapter 3, 2nd page (p. 34 of 189) Thanks, everyone, and Happy New Year! Marius Hancu > >------- > >Granger flung his burden on to a chair. Then he noticed Phuong [a > >Vietnamese lady, Thomas's lover]. ... 'Where did you find her. Didn't > >know you HAD A WHISTLE in you." > >------- The expression isn't familiar to me, but I think the _Magic Flute_ idea is pertinent; "whistle" is figurative in my reading, suggesting the ability to call -- "whistle up" -- or attract companionship. SignatureOdysseus >Hello, everyone: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >or >- Magic Flute, as in Mozart None of those things. I finally managed to buy the book yesterday and have read it to that point. The whistle is a 'wolf-whistle' - the whistling noise that men on both sides of the pond made during WWII and many years after, and maybe make right to this day, when they see an exceptionally pretty girl. The situation is that Pyle is a young, idealistic American, innocent as a new-born lamb, while the narrator, Fowler, is an older, more experienced Englishman. Phuong is very young, one of those Vietnamese flower ladies who still look 15 when they're twice that age. I have not seen any first names mentioned yet, but if Phuong is Thomas's lover, then Thomas is Fowler, for he was her lover, and Pyle is Joe. Granger is another hard-bitten reporter, and when he comes to the restaurant and sees Phuong with Pyle and Fowler he makes that crack to Pyle "Where did you find her. Didn't know you had a (wolf-) whistle in you", because to Granger and most others, Pyle is too innocent and serious to know what to do with a pretty girl even if he knew how to find and attract one. The fact that she's actually with Fowler would not have made any difference to Granger even if he had known. I suspect that Pyle had already become an irritation to others because of his ways. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England > >1. > >------- [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > sides of the pond made during WWII and many years after, and maybe make > right to this day, when they see an exceptionally pretty girl. I can confirm it's still in practice:-)) I knew 'wolf-whistle', but didn't make the connection. It's indeed very plausible. Thank you very much for the effort put into this, and sorry to have made you buy the book, I initially understood you had it in your library ... I'll keep this in my memory as a very nice experience on AEU. Marius Hancu >> >1. >> >------- [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I knew 'wolf-whistle', but didn't make the connection. It's indeed very >plausible. Remember, Greene was an Englishman, a generation older than me. In the 50s we would in the Midlands say things like: "Him? Oh, there's no good in him!", where 'good' is a noun, meaning "he's no good", and "I passed my driving test today." "Oh? I didn't think you had it in you", with the 'it' meaning 'the capacity to learn to drive and pass the test'. >Thank you very much for the effort put into this, and sorry to have made you >buy the book, Don't be sorry. I read my first Greene, "This Gun for Hire", in my early teens, and the thought of that killer with the hare-lip haunted me for weeks. >I initially understood you had it in your library ... So did I, but I soon realised that I hadn't. I confused the title with that of an old movie "The Quiet Man", quite a different story. >I'll keep this in my >memory as a very nice >experience on AEU. Delighted I could help. I'm thoroughly enjoying the book, and am proving to myself again why I've always thought Greene was one of the finest 20th century authors. taut prose, not a word wasted. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England > I've always thought Greene was one of the finest 20th > century authors. taut prose, not a word wasted. He's also, in my opinion, one of the few great naturals. There's nothing interfering with the story, its flow and the human emotion, nothing in terms of pretense, vocabulary, architecture of the phrase. Simple and essential in the best meaning of the terms. I discovered him with the "The Tenth Man" and I was shocked. Best regards, Marius Hancu >> I've always thought Greene was one of the finest 20th >> century authors. taut prose, not a word wasted. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >nothing in terms of pretense, vocabulary, architecture of the phrase. >Simple and essential in the best meaning of the terms. Totally agree. The early Eric Amblers are good, too. >I discovered him with the "The Tenth Man" and I was shocked. Yet another I haven't read. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England |
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