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Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2008"come round" questions?
Hi, I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". But the meaning of "come round" in that example can't be "visit a place". I think it should be like "go somewhere". Can you explain it to me?  SignatureThanks, Duy Lam Phuong > I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come > round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". > But the meaning of "come round" in that example can't be "visit a > place". I think it should be like "go somewhere". > Can you explain it to me? Your personal intuition must be weighed against the many instances collected by the lexicographers. Each language user has only one vote. If your personal intuition that words ABC ought not to mean DEF is not shared by 90 per cent or more of other users, the lexicographers agree that the majority is right and you are wrong. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come >> round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > more of other users, the lexicographers agree that the > majority is right and you are wrong. I have a friend who says he's "based out of Miami," but it's not true. He's based *in* Miami! SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > >> I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come > >> round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I have a friend who says he's "based out of Miami," but it's not true. > He's based *in* Miami! I've been complaining about that for some time now, too. If he says that he is based out of Miami, then his base should be somewhere other than Miami. Unfortunately, I think this is one we're losing. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >> >> I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come >> >> round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I've been complaining about that for some time now, too. You'll get no help from me. "Based out of Miami" means operating from a Miami location and doing business away from Miami. "Based in Miami" means operating from a Miami location and doing business in Miami. AFAIC >If he says >that he is based out of Miami, then his base should be somewhere other >than Miami. No, that would be "Based outside of Miami". >Unfortunately, I think this is one we're losing. Good. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> I have a friend who says he's "based out of Miami," but it's not true. >>> He's based *in* Miami! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > means operating from a Miami location and doing business in Miami. > AFAIC I think that ought to be "working out of Miami". He's based *in* Miami, wherever he works. >>>> I have a friend who says he's "based out of Miami," but it's not true. >>>> He's based *in* Miami! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I think that ought to be "working out of Miami". He's based *in* Miami, >wherever he works. I don't disagree, but that's a change in wording. I was commenting on the "based in"/"based out of" usage only. We can improve almost anything by changing words. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Hi, > > I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come > round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for > lunch?". > But the meaning of "come round" in that example can't be "visit a place". No, it's an example of the first possibility, not the second, i.e. visiting a person, not a place. > I think it should be like "go somewhere". It means "come to my house", or conceivably "come to the place where I usually have lunch", not just "somewhere". > Can you explain it to me? Signatureathel > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > place". I think it should be like "go somewhere". > Can you explain it to me? There's an implied 'to my home' in the example. >Hi, > >I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come >round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". It should really be "come 'round". Round is a regional pronunciation for around. >But the meaning of "come round" in that example can't be "visit a >place". Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place has to be involved. I think it should be like "go somewhere". You come to my house. I go to your house. Your mother tells you to go to my house. It has to do with point of view. When you see someone approaching, he is coming. When you see someone getting farther away, he is going. >Can you explain it to me? If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) > It should really be "come 'round". Round is a regional pronunciation > for around. A very large region. SignatureRob Bannister > Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by > necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place > has to be involved. A tricky word, that "visit". In my language you can't visit anyone by phone. Is it possible to say, in AmE, "I can't visit you, but I'll phone you."? In AusE those are disjoint alternatives. SignaturePeter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org For an e-mail address, see my web page. >> Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by >> necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Is it possible to say, in AmE, "I can't visit you, but I'll phone > you."? In AusE those are disjoint alternatives. In my AmE, yes, quite easily. "I can't come to see you, so I'll phone you." On the other hand, we do visit by phone as well, as in "Bert phoned me yesterday and we visited for almost three hours." In that sense, though, it's been my experience that there's a strong connotation, almost a requirement, that the conversation be rambling, covering a number of disconnected topics, regardless of its length. That connotation shows up in statements like "I can't talk now, I've got to get the dog from the kennel, But if you call back tomorrow around three, we can visit." But, on the other other hand, I wouldn't say "I visited her by phone," but rather "I visited with her by phone." [...] >I wouldn't say "I visited her by phone," but rather "I visited with her by >phone." In my old-fashioned BrE we can't "visit with" someone, nor even "visit someone by phone". But apparently the AmE expression is infiltrating our language: our new vicar says every week "We welcome all of you who are new here or who are visiting with us". Fortunately she can't see me wincing in the organ gallery. Alan Jones > [...] >>I wouldn't say "I visited her by phone," but rather "I visited with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are new here or who are visiting with us". Fortunately she can't see > me wincing in the organ gallery. I think that it boils down to AmE having two different "visits". There's the one that means to spend time with someone in a casual way, with no pressing reason other than to enjoy their company and no overiding single topic of conversation. This is the sense in which I visit my friends, or visit with them on the phone. The other is the one that means to attend temporarily, or indicates that one's presence is not intended to be permanent. This is the sense that's used when your vicar refers to people visiting your church, or when someone is described as a visiting professor. This second sense doesn't address the level of formality of the situation, but rather its level of permanence. AmE seems to me to be more prone to dividing a word that way than BrE is. >> [...] >>>I wouldn't say "I visited her by phone," but rather "I visited with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I think that it boils down to AmE having two different "visits". Three, innit? "I have to make a visit". >There's the one that means to spend time with someone in a casual way, with >no pressing reason other than to enjoy their company and no overiding [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >AmE seems to me to be more prone to dividing a word that way than BrE is. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by >>> necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > But, on the other other hand, I wouldn't say "I visited her by > phone," but rather "I visited with her by phone." I'm so glad you explained that. Nobody has ever, AFAIK, previously told us why AmE allows "visit with", which can only mean "visit accompanied by" in OtherE. Now I know you have a separate meaning for "visit", the expression at last makes sense. I also now see that OED has this special US sense of the verb at 8.g. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>> Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied >>>> by necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > for "visit", the expression at last makes sense. I also now see > that OED has this special US sense of the verb at 8.g. I was reprimanded for "visiting" in class, third grade, Los Angeles, 1944-45. "Young man, we don't visit while others are still working!" I remember one of my aunts telling another (Utah, 1947), "Yes, we visited for an hour or more" meaning she had chatted with a person she met in the park. I can't imagine an hour's parkbench chat that didn't encompass diverse subjects. Even Forrest Gump ... SignatureFrank ess San Diego CA USA > Peter Moylan wrote: >>> Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by >>> necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > But, on the other other hand, I wouldn't say "I visited her by > phone," but rather "I visited with her by phone." ... and then there's that "call" thing. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> Why not? It means to come over, to visit. "A place" is implied by >> necessity. It doesn't mean visit by phone but in person, so a place >> has to be involved. > >A tricky word, that "visit". In my language you can't visit anyone by phone. Fortunately, I was saying what "come 'round' doesn't mean, so I didn't have to think much about it. But I think Barbara explained it well. >Is it possible to say, in AmE, "I can't visit you, but I'll phone you."? Yes, and Barbara explains that too. >In AusE those are disjoint alternatives. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > It should really be "come 'round". Round is a regional pronunciation > for around. [...] Not in BrE, at least: it's the standard form. NSOED notes that "round" as a preposition is *perhaps* a shortened form of "around", but doesn't make any such comment on the adverbial use, as in "come round for lunch". It cites E.M.Forster: "After tea..he went round to see Hamidullah". Alan Jones > >>Hi, > >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Alan Jones Yup. I think I've seen only "round" in British-authored books, never "around." Cece, AmE (Texas) >>>Hi, >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >"come round for lunch". It cites E.M.Forster: "After tea..he went round to >see Hamidullah". Very interesting. IIRC this is not the first time here that I've seen rural or southern American expressions that match British ones. Hard to believe them farm folk are speaking the King's English. >Alan Jones If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It should really be "come 'round". Round is a regional > pronunciation for around. You sure about that? The OED seems to think it went the other way. That sense of "around" is cited to 1816, glossed as "in U.S.", with the note Perhaps orig. U.K. (cf. quot. 1816). Now coming back into British use under U.S. influence. The closest sense they have for "round" ("In the neighbourhood or vicinity") is cited to 1785. Both words have older similar adverbial senses dating back to the turn of the fourteenth century. Their first quotation for "come round" in this sense is from 1826. Their first quotation for "come around" isn't until 1902. Google Books pushes the latter back to 1823: Our preachers continue to preach here when they come around. Jesse Lee, _Memoiur of the Rev. Jesse Lee_, 1823 and the former at least to 1797: Bid the polf'rers come round--those can list who can't see John Williams ("Anthony Pasquin"), _The Pin-Basket to the Children of Thespis_, 1797 (There are similar senses that are older.) SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |On a scale of one to ten... 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |it sucked. Palo Alto, CA 94304 kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>> Hi, >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The closest sense they have for "round" ("In the neighbourhood or > vicinity") is cited to 1785. I may well be inventing subtleties, but I think I can invite anyone I want to come round to dinner, but only someone who lives "just round the corner" to come "around" for dinner. The "around" carries an actual sense of (short) travelling with it while "round" just means "here". To back that up, I can say "I was round at Fred's yesterday", but cannot say *"I was around at Fred's yesterday". I can, however, say both "went round" and "went around" with the senses in my first paragraph. > I may well be inventing subtleties, but I think I can invite anyone I > want to come round to dinner, but only someone who lives "just round the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > say *"I was around at Fred's yesterday". I can, however, say both > "went round" and "went around" with the senses in my first paragraph. My own view is that each "round" is properly a "'round". The only way I can think of for someone to come round to your house is for that person to already be round or overweight. A thin person would have to gain weight to come round. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >> I may well be inventing subtleties, but I think I can invite anyone I >> want to come round to dinner, but only someone who lives "just round the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > person to already be round or overweight. A thin person would have to > gain weight to come round. Sounds like we have a clear pondial difference here then. As I say I can use "round" in a sense where around doesn't work, so for me (and I think in this case I probably am speaking for BrE speakers in general) "round" can't be "'round". "I was around at Bill's" is just wrong to me. "I was round at Bill's" is perfectly natural. >>> I may well be inventing subtleties, but I think I can invite anyone >>> I want to come round to dinner, but only someone who lives "just [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > "I was around at Bill's" is just wrong to me. "I was round at Bill's" > is perfectly natural. I see no difference, except that "round" does indeed feel like a truncation of "around" to me. This doesn't affect my choice of words in speech, but does for writing. What I don't think I can do at all is use "around" to mean "about" meaning "approximately". SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > What I don't think I can do at all is use "around" to mean "about" meaning > "approximately". Then you would never say something like "Come round around three o'clock"? SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >> What I don't think I can do at all is use "around" to mean "about" >> meaning "approximately". > > Then you would never say something like "Come round around three > o'clock"? I might if I was just coming round. SignatureMike. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> What I don't think I can do at all is use "around" to mean "about" >>> meaning "approximately". >> Then you would never say something like "Come round around three >> o'clock"? > > I might if I was just coming round. Was? What do you mean, "if I was"? ;-) SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c >>>> Hi, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > say *"I was around at Fred's yesterday". I can, however, say both > "went round" and "went around" with the senses in my first paragraph. You could hang around with Fred, but you can't hang "round" with him. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > Hi, > > I read the "come round" definition in dictionary and it said: "come > round: to visit sb or a place. Ex: Do you want to come round for lunch?". > But the meaning of "come round" in that example can't be "visit a > place". I think it should be like "go somewhere". Sir. Sir! SIR SIR! Please Sir - he said "sb" sir. >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Please Sir - he said "sb" sir. That should, of course, have read "Miss, Miss" etc. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> Hi, >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >That should, of course, have read "Miss, Miss" etc. I thought sb meant Santa Barbara or San Bernadino. What does it mean? If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) > >>> Hi, > >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > If you are inclined to email me > for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) sb, like st, is used by teachers of English as a foreign language, mostly in Asia. Rather than writing "somebody" or "something" in every sentence, they use, and teach their students to use, sb and st, leading them to believe that native speakers of English do the same thing. It confuses all of us until we figure out what's happened. >> >>> Hi, >> >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >leading them to believe that native speakers of English do the same >thing. It confuses all of us until we figure out what's happened. It's going to take 100 years before this is well known. These people should stop using their own abbreviations if they want to be understood or if they want to look like they write English well. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > If you are inclined to email me > for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) I always thought it was a dictionary tersity, along with s.o. for "some one." SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c > sb, like st, is used by teachers of English as a foreign language, and, more notably in this context, by compilers of dictionaries. ¬R >>>> Hi, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >>That should, of course, have read "Miss, Miss" etc. > I thought sb meant Santa Barbara or San Bernadino. What does it mean? Salty Balls. SignatureLobotomy means never having to say you're sorry -- or anything else. >y mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Salty Balls. ITYM Sandy Beds: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=1244 "The late F Pym, Esq" of around 1870 mentioned on that page must surely have been connected to the late F Pym, Esq, who died a few days ago and was a Thatcherite wet of gentlemanly disposition, and thus tooth-fodder to the snarling Tebbitt and his kind. The latter Pym was said to be connected with the John Pym of the unpleasantness of the mid-17th century: http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/biog/pym.htm SignaturePaul mm filted: >I thought sb meant Santa Barbara or San Bernadino. What does it mean? Sandra Bullock....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Please Sir - he said "sb" sir. Food, glorious food! SignatureMarshall Price of Miami Known to Yahoo as d021317c |
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