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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004"A few lenghts of MDF"?
Hi there! Again, I have trouble with a phrase in a british book. This is a book of self-help, and the chapter talks about how women sometimes give men a chance because they believe that, although he is not exactly everything they want, there is room for improvement. The sentence is: (quote) The social attraction element has been taken care of: either we think you already look right or we guess you might scrub up well with a little patience and a few lenghts of MDF. (unquote) I get the general meaning, but I would like to know exactly what MDF stands for. The meanings I found in acronym dictionaries don't seem to apply here. Thanks a lot!  SignatureElsa T. S. Vieira > Hi there! > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks a lot! Google is your friend in such situations. Put [mdf faq] in and VIOLA: http://www.lungster.com/l/speakers/mdffaq/mdf.html (It's a staple of British DIY, hence the 'joke' in your quote) -- John Dean Oxford De-frag to reply On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote -snip- > (quote) > The social attraction element has been taken care of: either we > think you already look right or we guess you might scrub up well > with a little patience and a few lenghts of MDF. > (unquote) > I get the general meaning, but I would like to know exactly what > MDF stands for. The meanings I found in acronym dictionaries don't > seem to apply here. Medium Density Fibreboard; it's (over)used in home improvements. SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) > On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Medium Density Fibreboard; it's (over)used in home improvements. I recall hearing it called multi-directional fibreboard (maybe multiple) on the Changing Rooms TV program. I haven't gone to a lumberyard here to find out if the same initialism is used or identifiable to the salesmen there. On 08 Jan 2004, Pat Durkin wrote >> On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote >> -snip- >>> I get the general meaning, but I would like to know exactly what >>> MDF stands for. The meanings I found in acronym dictionaries >>> don't seem to apply here. >> Medium Density Fibreboard; it's (over)used in home improvements. > I recall hearing it called multi-directional fibreboard (maybe > multiple) on the Changing Rooms TV program. I think they've got that wrong -- at least for its Rightpondian use. (I've only ever known it as "medium-density" in architectural/building circles, and that's also the definition given in the current edition of Collins. I've never come across LDF or HDF, but it wouldn't surprise me if they exist.) > I haven't gone to a lumberyard here to find out if the same > initialism is used or identifiable to the salesmen there. I'd be curious to know if it is, and if so what they think it stands for! SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) > On 08 Jan 2004, Pat Durkin wrote > >> On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I'd be curious to know if it is, and if so what they think it stands > for! "Fiberboard The term fiberboard includes hardboard, medium-density fiberboard (MDF), and insulation board. Several things differentiate fiberboard from particleboard, most notably the physical configuration of the comminuted material (Fig. 10–9). Because wood is fibrous by nature, fiberboard exploits the inherent strength of wood to a greater extent than does particleboard." This is from the MDF FAQ link provided by John Dean, specifically from a publication of the Forest Products Lab here in Madison, WI. Can't get more US than that, huh? (A few years ago the Lab was almost totally destroyed by fire because some lab assistant forgot to watch one of the testing ovens over a weekend. It is a Federally and State financed lab loosely affiliated with UW.) The chapter goes on to describe HDF and MDF, with a brief description of LDF and its use for insulation. The topic gets very detailed, including wet and dry processes of manufacture. On 08 Jan 2004, Pat Durkin wrote -snip technical stuff on types of fibreboard- > The chapter goes on to describe HDF and MDF, with a brief > description of LDF and its use for insulation. The topic gets > very detailed, including wet and dry processes of manufacture. Thanks for that. (Although it's left me with an image of coke-bottle- glassed hobbyists discussing the relative merits of wet and dry manufacturing techniques of fibreboard. People you wouldn't want to get stuck with in a pub, basically...) SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) > I've never come across LDF or HDF, but it wouldn't surprise > me if they exist. I think what we call "hardboard" is also known as LDF. About 30 years ago, a schoolfriend had a huge model railway layout that occupied most of the floor area of his bedroom. It was built on a roughly waist-height timber frame covered with a soft board about 1/2 to 3/4 thick, as I recall, which he called "fibreboard". This stuff was straw-coloured; certainly lower in density than hardboard or MDF; and shed whiskery fibres everywhere when rubbed, cut, or drilled. It may (or may not) have been the same stuff I used to hear referred to as "insulation board". Cheers, Daniel. >> I've never come across LDF or HDF, but it wouldn't surprise >> me if they exist. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >cut, or drilled. It may (or may not) have been the same stuff I >used to hear referred to as "insulation board". I had a similar layout (in the garage). The relics still exist. The material was called softboard. It had the benefit that small nails, pins, and suchlike could be pushed into it without the need for a hammer. Being soft and flexible it had a degree of self-healing. SignaturePeter Duncanson UK (posting from a.e.u) In alt.english.usage on Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:54:25 GMT Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> posted: >> I've never come across LDF or HDF, but it wouldn't surprise >> me if they exist. > >I think what we call "hardboard" is also known as LDF. Not HDF? Especially since below you hint that softboard is LDF. >About 30 years ago, a schoolfriend had a huge model railway layout >that occupied most of the floor area of his bedroom. It was built [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Cheers, > Daniel. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > >I think what we call "hardboard" is also known as LDF. > > Not HDF? No, the density of material in hardboard is clearly lower than that of MDF, and (despite the name) hardboard is much less hard than MDF. I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm right about hardboard being a kind of fibreboard at all, though, it's really a kind of heavy-duty cardboard and not especially fibrous (not more so than cardboard, anyway). The material I used to hear called just "fibreboard" (which I've also heard called "Softboard") is lower still in density than hardboard, but is noticeably fibrous. Cheers, Daniel. In alt.english.usage on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:04:23 GMT Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> posted: >> >I think what we call "hardboard" is also known as LDF. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >of MDF, and (despite the name) hardboard is much less hard than >MDF. I'm beginning to wonder whether I'm right about hardboard Where does Masonite come into all of this? It's very hard, but I don't actually know if it is fiberboard at all. And I guess I've never used or known how to use "hardboard". >being a kind of fibreboard at all, though, it's really a kind of >heavy-duty cardboard and not especially fibrous (not more so than >cardboard, anyway). That's the way I feel about Masonite. :) >The material I used to hear called just "fibreboard" (which I've >also heard called "Softboard") is lower still in density than >hardboard, but is noticeably fibrous. I wish I had one of the new Building Materials Modems. Then you could send me some and I'd see exactly what you mean. >Cheers, > Daniel. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years On 12 Jan 2004, meirman wrote > In alt.english.usage on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:04:23 GMT Daniel James ><wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> posted: >>>> I think what we call "hardboard" is also known as LDF. >>> Not HDF? >> No, the density of material in hardboard is clearly lower than >> that of MDF, and (despite the name) hardboard is much less hard [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Where does Masonite come into all of this? It's very hard, but I > don't actually know if it is fiberboard at all. > And I guess I've never used or known how to use "hardboard". Masonite -- I'm pretty certain -- is the leftpondian term for what's called "hardboard" in the UK. (They certainly look the same, and I've not heard the term "Masonite" since I left Canada.) >> being a kind of fibreboard at all, though, it's really a kind of >> heavy-duty cardboard and not especially fibrous (not more so than >> cardboard, anyway). > > That's the way I feel about Masonite. :) It's the construcction of the stuff that convinces me it's the same material -- layered rather than fibrous. SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) In alt.english.usage on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:48:57 GMT Harvey Van Sickle <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> posted: >On 12 Jan 2004, meirman wrote >> In alt.english.usage on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 18:04:23 GMT Daniel James [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >called "hardboard" in the UK. (They certainly look the same, and I've >not heard the term "Masonite" since I left Canada.) Well Masonite (R) is something I would call hardboard, because it's very hard, imo, and also high density fibreboard (if it is fibreboard) because it is very heavy for something that thin. (about an eight of an inch of a little more, 3mm+. It comes in 4x8 foot sheets, but I think it is too strong to use for most indoor wall paneling (not pretty either). I'm not sure what people use it for. (IIRC, it's the one that used to show a big man standing on two layers of Masonite across two saw horses, to show how strong it is.) >>> being a kind of fibreboard at all, though, it's really a kind of >>> heavy-duty cardboard and not especially fibrous (not more so than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It's the construcction of the stuff that convinces me it's the same >material -- layered rather than fibrous. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > Well Masonite (R) is something I would call hardboard, because it's > very hard, ... > > (IIRC, it's the one that used to show a big man standing on two layers > of Masonite across two saw horses, to show how strong it is.) Then it's not what I'd call hardboard - you couldn't stand on ten layers of that! Cheers, Daniel. >> Well Masonite (R) is something I would call hardboard, because it's >> very hard, ... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Then it's not what I'd call hardboard - you couldn't stand on ten > layers of that! It may be what we know as plyboard, or something we just don't have. m. On 15 Jan 2004, Daniel James wrote >> Well Masonite (R) is something I would call hardboard, because >> it's very hard, ... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Then it's not what I'd call hardboard - you couldn't stand on ten > layers of that! What we called "Masonite" when I lived in Canada was identical to what is sold in the UK as "hardboard" -- brown stuff; very smooth on one side; rough on the other side (square-patterned indents); made of something like a strong paper, but layered so that it's 3 or 4 mm thick. Maybe there's something else sold under the name -- or maybe we misapplied the term -- but that's certainly what we called "Masonite" in the 1960s and 1970s. SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) > What we called "Masonite" when I lived in Canada was identical to what > is sold in the UK as "hardboard" -- brown stuff; very smooth on one > side; rough on the other side (square-patterned indents); made of > something like a strong paper, but layered so that it's 3 or 4 mm > thick. Canadian usage 1960 to date seems to be: Masonite = usually thin sheets (a tenth of inch) of dark brown compressed cellulose fibre Particle board = similar but 1/2 inch to 15/16 inch thick, formerly dark brown, nowadays light buff. Hardboard may have been used for both; and Particle board seems nowadays also used to name Aspenite and similar building construction panels in which you can see the shape of wood fragments up to a couple of inches across. British Medium Density Fibre board seems (in those TV home decoration shows) to be like N.American Particle Board, but possibly finer in texture and stronger. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) In alt.english.usage on Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:16:35 -0500 "Don Phillipson" <nospam@nospam.trytel.com> posted: >> What we called "Masonite" when I lived in Canada was identical to what >> is sold in the UK as "hardboard" -- brown stuff; very smooth on one [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > panels in which you can see the shape of > wood fragments up to a couple of inches across. In the US, this last one is called chipboard, I think. I got a free half sheet of particle board once (while I was looking for outdoor plywood.) and made an outside shelf with it. Painted it with latex stain (whatever that is. It's what we all have to use on our houses.) It lasted about 10 years, although the last 2 it was bending in the center, progressively more. The last 6 months the middle was about 2 feet lower than the ends. >British Medium Density Fibre board seems (in those >TV home decoration shows) to be like >N.American Particle Board, but possibly finer >in texture and stronger. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > >Particle board seems nowadays also used to name > > Aspenite and similar building construction > > panels in which you can see the shape of > > wood fragments up to a couple of inches across. > > In the US, this last one is called chipboard, I think. It sounds like what we call chipboard in the UK, too, though most chipboard one sees here doesn't have quite such large wood "chips" - usually none more than about 1/2". (Never heard the name "Aspenite", BTW.) Cheers, Daniel. In alt.english.usage on Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:18:40 GMT Harvey Van Sickle <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> posted: >On 15 Jan 2004, Daniel James wrote > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >something like a strong paper, but layered so that it's 3 or 4 mm >thick. That's it, exactly! >Maybe there's something else sold under the name -- or maybe we >misapplied the term -- but that's certainly what we called "Masonite" >in the 1960s and 1970s. That's it. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > Where does Masonite come into all of this? I've no idea what Masonite is. I'm vaguely aware of the term (perhaps as a brand name for something else? Gutter sealant?) but don't know what material it might refer to. Sorry. > >The material I used to hear called just "fibreboard" ... > > I wish I had one of the new Building Materials Modems. Then you could > send me some and I'd see exactly what you mean. If I had any! You might think it would be easy to send over a fibre network ... Cheers, Daniel. > On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Medium Density Fibreboard; it's (over)used in home improvements. Is that what y'all whap somebody upside the head with? This side of the Pond, the preferred tool is a two-by-four. (A 2x4 is a piece of wood, any kind but often pine, measuring -- nominally rather than actually -- two inches by four inches by any reasonable number of feet. It is a major part of house construction.) Note: this is much more often talked about than done. Cece >Is that what y'all whap somebody upside the head with? This side of >the Pond, the preferred tool is a two-by-four. (A 2x4 is a piece of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >more often talked about than done. >Cece I think it's the technical term for a good grade of ticky-tacky. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Signature"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com On 08 Jan 2004, Spehro Pefhany wrote Re: medium density fibreboard > I think it's the technical term for a good grade of ticky-tacky. I'll quote myself here by reproducing my response to Mike Lyle in alt.usage.english, who said much the same thing when he wrote: > I live in a proudly MDF-free zone. The stuff is Evil, and a Mark > of the Beast, and the badge of a Civilization in Decline. ----------- I wouldn't be overly proud of that: it's a matter of judicious use. The material is fine when used for what it was designed for: it's the misuse of it that's evil, and which badges the civilisation that misuses it as flawed. MDF is an excellent *structural* material -- it's neutral, non-warping, has no grain or splits, and is perfectly suited for what it was designed for: underlying structural work, which *won't be seen*. It's just like construction-grade bricks and knot-ridden pine/deal doors: entirely suited for what they were designed for, but hideous when exposed. (Cleaning render off bricks which were always intended to be rendered -- or stipping interior doors which were always intended to be painted -- is where the error lies.) I'm willing to bet that any architect I know will agree with that. Self-styled "designers" and salesmen, on the other hand, push MDF as a WONDERFUL material for finished work -- that given enough paint, varnish or top treatment, it could be left exposed and look "just like wood". As usual, "designers" and salesmen are wrong. SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) >> On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > feet. It is a major part of house construction.) Note: this is much > more often talked about than done. Four by two (interesting reversal there) is not exactly politically correct. It has connotations in Cockney Rhyming slang. Is he a four by two? Well, four-by-two-ish. Of course a four by two is not to be confused with a four wheel skid. Which again should not be confused with skid marks skid marks n. Severe russet gusset (qv); pebble dashing (qv) of the undercrackers; the turtle's brill cream. - Roger's Profanisaurus I hope everybody is taking notes. There will be a test. SignatureMartin Willett http://mwillett.org/ On 08 Jan 2004, Martin Willett wrote >> Is that what y'all whap somebody upside the head with? This side >> of the Pond, the preferred tool is a two-by-four. -snip- > Four by two (interesting reversal there) It was one I noted immediately when I moved to the UK: definitely a pondian difference in common use. I've noticed it in other areas, too -- "10 by 8" in the UK for the photographic print size which my Canadian mind's ear still hears as "8 by 10"; that sort of thing. SignatureCheers, Harvey Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs) In alt.english.usage on 8 Jan 2004 12:44:19 -0800 ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com (Cece) posted: >> On 08 Jan 2004, Elsa T. S. Vieira wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Is that what y'all whap somebody upside the head with? This side of I don't think so. (although I'm surprised no one else said anything) I think it comes in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets. And then when a piece of it is only 4 inches wide it will bend or break when you wave it around. Well, I think Masonite is a brand of HDF, hardboard, I think one post called it. I haven't used MDF but it has the word "board" in it, and I think I know what it is.. >the Pond, the preferred tool is a two-by-four. (A 2x4 is a piece of >wood, any kind but often pine, measuring -- nominally rather than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Cece I also don't understand what one could be socially attracted to that would clean up with lengths of fiberboard. A house might be cleaned up that way (but I wouldn't call that social attraction), but I don't think it would do anything for a girl or boy, except maybe encase them. s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years Ok, I got it. What I was missing to understand it was the reference to the (over?)abundance of DIY mania in the UK these days :-) Thank you all! SignatureElsa T. S. Vieira > Hi there! > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks a lot! |
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