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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Stomp? Stamp? Stumped
I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping ground." Straw poll anyone? > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get > 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." > > Straw poll anyone? I cast one vote for "stomping".  SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I >> always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I cast one vote for "stomping". I've heard both as well. Make that two votes for "stomping". Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Signature"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com >>> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I >>> always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I've heard both as well. Make that two votes for "stomping". COD10: stamping ground (N. Amer. also stomping ground) · n. a place one regularly frequents. Seems to be a pondian thing. Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England In alt.usage.english Dr Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote: > COD10: > stamping ground (N. Amer. also stomping ground) > n. a place one regularly frequents. > Seems to be a pondian thing. Stomp implies more violence than stamp. We also have stomp clubs. >In alt.usage.english Dr Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Stomp implies more violence than stamp. We also have stomp clubs. Are they like shillelaghs? Signaturewrmst rgrds Robin Bignall Quiet part of Hertfordshire England In alt.usage.english Dr Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>Stomp implies more violence than stamp. We also have stomp clubs. > Are they like shillelaghs? I was thinking more Hell's Angels. > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get > 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." stamping ground (Chambers doesn't list "stomping ground".) To me, "stomp" isn't a serious word. Adrian In alt.english.usage on Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:20:24 -0000 "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> posted: >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I >> always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >To me, "stomp" isn't a serious word. It is if you're stomping at the Savoy. >Adrian s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > In alt.english.usage on Fri, 9 Jan 2004 02:20:24 -0000 "Adrian Bailey" > <dadge@hotmail.com> posted: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > It is if you're stomping at the Savoy. And if you're a Bobby Browning fan : And then will the flaxen-wigged Image Be carried in pomp Through the plain, while in gallant procession The priests mean to stomp. http://www.poetryconnection.net/poets/Robert_Browning/5851 -- John 'Didn't he marry Whitney Barratt?' Dean Oxford De-frag to reply >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I >> always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Adrian Depends on where you are. It's a serious word in the US. "Stomping ground" may have come from an Indian custom, as somebody says in this thread, but now it means simply a gathering place for a certain group. "To stomp" means to put feet down, hard, usually when the stomper is angry. Carter Jefferson carterj98@mindspring.com http://carterj.homestead.com/ > To me, "stomp" isn't a serious word. It will become serious to you if you were ever to be stomped upon. SignatureStefano http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get > 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." > > Straw poll anyone? I have only heard "stamping ground". In terms of the verb, "to stomp or to stamp", I have heard both, but "to stamp" has occurred much more frequently in my experience. > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get > 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." > > Straw poll anyone? I would have said "stomping grounds", and Google does, too. These are strange results: "stomping ground" 29.600 "stomping grounds" 60,900 "stamping ground" 42,900 "stamping grounds" 2,970 -- rzed In alt.english.usage on Thu, 8 Jan 2004 23:11:19 -0500 "rzed" <rzantow@ntelos.net> posted: >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I >> always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >"stamping ground" 42,900 >"stamping grounds" 2,970 Very good. Apparenlty there are two different things, a stamping ground and stomping grounds. It must be a new kind of plural. :) s/ meirman If you are emailing me please say if you are posting the same response. Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years Indianapolis, 7 years Chicago, 6 years Brooklyn NY 12 years Baltimore 20 years > I would have said "stomping grounds", and Google does, too. These are > strange results: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "stamping ground" 42,900 > "stamping grounds" 2,970 Very interesting. Inexplicable. But interesting. > > I would have said "stomping grounds", and Google does, too. These are > > strange results: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Very interesting. Inexplicable. But interesting. "Stomping" is not used in BrE except as an informal word for what a person in a very bad temper does when he can't sit still - he "stomps around". "Stamping ground" is the normal expression. This Pondian difference perhaps explains the Google figures: speakers of BrE virtually all "stamp" - speakers of AmE may "stamp" or "stomp". Alan Jones > > > I would have said "stomping grounds", and Google does, too. These are > > > strange results: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > explains the Google figures: speakers of BrE virtually all "stamp" - > speakers of AmE may "stamp" or "stomp". In BrE (and AmE too, I guess), "stomp" can also be a kind of dance, or a "jazz composition". What MC says is "inexplicable" seems to me to be explicable, given the information provided elsewhere in the thread. 1. In BrE there is only a fixed idiom, "stamping ground", meaning "the place(s) one frequents". 2. In US English there is the term "stomp ground", referring (back) to an Amerindian custom. Here the "ground" is thought of rather more literally, hence also "stomping grounds". 3. "Stomping ground" is a conflation of the US and UK expressions. Adrian > I hear both "stomping ground" & "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" - I was surprised to get > 42,900 hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." I did a search using http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=%22stomping+grounds%22&kgs=0&kls=0&av kw=aapt (STOMPING GROUNDS) and got 21,243 hits. http://www.altavista.com/web/results?q=%22stamping+grounds%22&kgs=0&kls=0&av kw=aapt (STAMPING GROUNDS) only returns 1,498 results, BUT loads of "sponsored Matches". (Did you know that you can buy "stamping grounds" from E-Bay?). Now my silly question: "To stomp" or "to stamp"? That is the question! I thought "stomp" was slang and a prostitution of the correct English word "stamp", introduced by the uneducated "wot can't talk rite proper, like." It seems that there is so much new slang becoming accepted as a part of the language. I have even found references to Cockney slang in the "Advanced Learners OED". St Bedes catholic school for girls, (Cambridge, UK) have always taught that there is no room for slang in the English language: "If you cannot express yourself with proper words then your vocabulary is somewhat lacking." >> I hear both "stomping ground" & "stamping ground" in the wild. I >> always thouht it should be "stomping" - I was surprised to get [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >no room for slang in the English language: "If you cannot express yourself >with proper words then your vocabulary is somewhat lacking." My dictionary lists "stomp" as a variant of "stamp". It also quotes some probably uneducated Cockney named "R. Browning" as writing: And then will the flaxen-wigged Image Be carried in pomp Through the plain, while in gallant procession The priests mean to stomp. in some rhyming slang bit titled "An Englishman In Italy". > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. My first thought was that it should definitely be "stamping". Then I thought that "stamping" sounded too civilized for "in the wild", and that "stomping" had some merit. Then I looked in the dictionary. The NSOED gives two separate terms. It defines "stamping ground" as "a favourite place of resort, a haunt"; but it defines "stomp ground" as "A place when (N.American) Indian stomp dances are traditionally performed". A "stomp dance" is defined as "a ceremonial N. American Indian dance characterized by heavy stamping steps". Finally, it lists "stomping ground" as an alternative spelling of "stamping ground". "Stomp" is also given a number of definitions that refer to dancing and music -- especially a heavy beating of time, and especially in Jazz. "Stomp" is also given the meaning of "stamp on" or "stamp out, eradicate" and (chiefly US) "beat up, beat in a fight". I might hazard a guess that "stamping ground" has been transformed into "stomping ground" in leftpondia, perhaps partly by confusion with the unrelated local phrase "stomp ground", and perhaps partly through familiarity with other meanings that have become attached to "stomp" that may be more common on that side of the water. It would, I must stress, be pure conjecture. Cheers, Daniel. >Mc writes: >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. >My first thought was that it should definitely be "stamping". >Then I thought that "stamping" sounded too civilized for "in the >wild", and that "stomping" had some merit. >Then I looked in the dictionary. >The NSOED gives two separate terms. It defines "stamping ground" as >"a favourite place of resort, a haunt"; but it defines "stomp [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >steps". Finally, it lists "stomping ground" as an alternative >spelling of "stamping ground". >"Stomp" is also given a number of definitions that refer to dancing >and music -- especially a heavy beating of time, and especially in >Jazz. >"Stomp" is also given the meaning of "stamp on" or "stamp out, >eradicate" and (chiefly US) "beat up, beat in a fight". >I might hazard a guess that "stamping ground" has been transformed >into "stomping ground" in leftpondia, perhaps partly by confusion >with the unrelated local phrase "stomp ground", and perhaps partly >through familiarity with other meanings that have become attached >to "stomp" that may be more common on that side of the water. It >would, I must stress, be pure conjecture. Both are from the same root, but they're separate words now, with a bit of overlap. 'Stomp' always involves the feet, whereas 'stamp' need not. There's also a certain amount of onomatopoiea, stronger in 'stomp' than 'stamp'. 'Stomping ground' is definitely more common in speech in the US than 'stamping ground', though those who say it one way might well spell it another. Consider, however, mixing up other fixed phrases, like 'stamp dance', 'stomp collector', and 'stomp tax' to see the differences. This sort of stuff happens all the time, and has for millennia. For more than you probably ever want to know about words beginning with ST-, see http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/style.pdf -John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler U Michigan Linguistics Dept ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "But do we know how to welcome into our mother tongue the distant echoes that reverberate in the hollow centers of words? When reading words, we see them and no longer hear them." -- Gaston Bachelard > Both are from the same root, but they're separate words now, with > a bit of overlap. I've been reminded that there has been some conjecture that "stomp" may have come into BrE as a portmanteau of "storm" and "stamp", in the sense used in "after reading the review of his latest book in /The Times/ he flew into a rage and stomped out of the room slamming the door behind him". > 'Stomp' always involves the feet, whereas 'stamp' need not. How can one stamp anything but one's feet in any context where "stomp" might be substituted for "stamp"? Yes, one can stamp a letter, use a date-stamp, etc., but "stomp" would not do in any of those uses. OTOH, in the sense of "coalition stomps on iraqis", which may well have been a recent tabloid headline, the "stomping" would not have been being done with the feet but with aircraft and armoured vehicles. Cheers, Daniel. P.S. I used one of those "have been being" thingies that have been being discussed in another thread. Seemed to work for me. > Mc wrote: >> I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ceremonial N. American Indian dance characterized by heavy stamping > steps". Yeah, the one I attended was at the gravel pit just ouside Anadarko, Oklahoma. I think I have told the story here before. Them's "stomping" steps, by the way. > Finally, it lists "stomping ground" as an alternative > spelling of "stamping ground". I've never been stamping. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ [ ... ] > I've never been stamping. Not even your feet when they're cold or snow-covered? SignatureBob Lieblich Recovering philatelist > [ ... ] > >> I've never been stamping. > > Not even your feet when they're cold or snow-covered? That's been a long, long time ago, in the 'sixties, I think, but no -- I stomped the ground with them then. I stamp envelopes, and I used to have a production stamp and a planning stamp for stuff at Lockheed to make some of my actions "totally official". In other words, I'm a foot-stomper, not much of a stamper. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > I might hazard a guess that "stamping ground" has been transformed > into "stomping ground" in leftpondia, perhaps partly by confusion > with the unrelated local phrase "stomp ground", and perhaps partly > through familiarity with other meanings that have become attached > to "stomp" that may be more common on that side of the water. It > would, I must stress, be pure conjecture. I vaguely recall seeing another meaning of "stomp", as an artist's tool used to blur or soften pencilled lines. It was in a turn-of-the-20th- century textbook on drawing, but I can't find that meaning in any of my usual dictionaries. Is there an artist in the house? SignatureRay Heindl (remove the Xs to reply) > > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > "Stomp" is also given the meaning of "stamp on" or "stamp out, > eradicate" and (chiefly US) "beat up, beat in a fight". "Stomp 'im, Biggie!" Or something like that. Oops, should have saved that for the SDC. Hey, did you know a teaser is currently available? > I might hazard a guess that "stamping ground" has been transformed > into "stomping ground" in leftpondia, perhaps partly by confusion > with the unrelated local phrase "stomp ground", and perhaps partly > through familiarity with other meanings that have become attached > to "stomp" that may be more common on that side of the water. It > would, I must stress, be pure conjecture. What is a stamping ground if it's not a stomp(ing) ground? "Stomp", as John Lawler said, implies feet. To me it also implies the strength of exuberance or violence, unlike "stamp". "I didn't like it, but did you expect me to stamp my little foot and go home?" The stomping I mentioned above was literal--Biggie's opponent was on the floor and Biggie had purposely worn his (let's see who can fill in the blank) ____ boots. Compare "chomp" and "champ" (verb). "Champ" is quite rare here, except for "champing at the bit", which sounds literary to me. In conversation I've mostly heard "chomping at the bit", and that not very often. A lot of the people I converse with are not very literary. SignatureJerry Friedman [...] > Compare "chomp" and "champ" (verb). "Champ" is quite rare here, > except for "champing at the bit", which sounds literary to me. In > conversation I've mostly heard "chomping at the bit", and that not > very often. A lot of the people I converse with are not very > literary. "Champing at the bit" meaning "desperately eager to go, or to get on with something" is ordinary BrE. I've never heard "chomping" in that expression. One might hear "chomping" informally for chewing very determinedly on something tough: it would then relate to "champing" as "stomping" (in the bad-tempered BrE sense) relates to "stamping" - slower, more forceful. In BrE, the -a- and -o- versions might be almost indistinguishable in Northern speech, where the a is "flattened". Alan Jones copeSP@AMZAPca.inter.net spake thus: > I hear both "stomping ground" and "stamping ground" in the wild. I > always thouht it should be "stomping" -- but I was surprised to get > 42,900 Google hits for "stamping ground" versus 29,600 for "stomping > ground." > > Straw poll anyone? I am reminded of a Peanuts cartoon. Lucy (the Doctor) has her patients cough onto the ground; she then kills the germs by jumping on them. She says (something like): "Bugs have evolved resistance to drugs but they've never been able to develop resistance to being stomped on." The use of "stomped" must have seemed odd or out of place to me as I have remembered it over 30 years or more. SignatureDavid ===== > I am reminded of a Peanuts cartoon. Lucy (the Doctor) has her > patients cough onto the ground; she then kills the germs by jumping > on them. She says (something like): "Bugs have evolved resistance to > drugs but they've never been able to develop resistance to being > stomped on." The use of "stomped" must have seemed odd or out of > place to me as I have remembered it over 30 years or more. I had exactly the same thought. Peanuts cartoons used "Stomp, stomp, stomp" and that seemed unusual, back in the 60s. But "stomp" must be quite old. It's in Webster's 1828, as a variant of "stamp," and he was not much of a one for tolerating variants. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux |
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