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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2008the real measure
Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly paraphrase the following sentence? The real measure of Starbuck's success is that it has helped turn America into a nation of coffee drinkers again. I do appreciate your kind help in advance. >Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', >but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I do appreciate your kind help in advance. What is most important about Starbucks' success... (Starbucks does not use the apostrophe in their name) The "real measure" is the thing about the subject that stands out as the most important factor. Starbucks' success has earned money for the Starbucks corporation, for the employees, for the landlords who provide space to them, and has provided business for their suppliers. These are all benefits of the success of Starbucks. The author here is saying that of all the benefits, that turning America into a nation of coffee drinkers again is the most important. Other companies will benefit from this.  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', > but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly > paraphrase the following sentence? > > The real measure of Starbuck's success is that it has helped turn > America into a nation of coffee drinkers again. Out of the many ways in which Starbucks' success could be measured (market share, stock price, turnover, dividends paid to shareholders, pretax profits, post tax profits, number of outlets, rate of increase of outlets, number of customers, year-on-year increase in number of customers ... yawn ... snore) the true indicator of their success is blah blah. In other words, there are many ways you can measure the success of an enterprise. A given analyst may well pick one as being *the* appropriate indicator. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > year-on-year increase in number of customers I heard "year=on-year" used as an economics adjective for the first time just this morning, and now you use it. Is that a coincidence? HOw long has it been around? Have others heard it outside an econ class? I heard it one of the Sunday morning network current events show, talking aobut the economny. (Not quite ready to call them news shows.) If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) On 28 Jul 2008, mm wrote >> year-on-year increase in number of customers > > I heard "year=on-year" used as an economics adjective for the > first time just this morning, and now you use it. Is that a > coincidence? HOw long has it been around? Have others heard it > outside an econ class? Don't know about elsewhere, but it's frequently used in the UK in general reporting of things like business results and house price changes. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> year-on-year increase in number of customers > > I heard "year=on-year" used as an economics adjective for the first > time just this morning, and now you use it. Is that a coincidence? Yes > HOw long has it been around? Have others heard it outside an econ > class? OED's earliest cite is 1976 in the Daily Telegraph. I'd say it's pretty common usage in the UK. A search of the online Guardian for the phrase gives over 4000 hits SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > > Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', > > but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > enterprise. A given analyst may well pick one as being *the* appropriate > indicator. I hope "post tax" is a typo. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', >>> but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I hope "post tax" is a typo. You hope in vain SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > >>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', > >>> but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > > You hope in vain So you think it's a tax on a post? Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > So you think it's a tax on a post? No You? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >No >You? In the US, the common terms are "after tax" (which doesn't require the hyphen) or "net after taxes". We do use "pre-tax", but not "post tax" or "post-tax". At least, that I have noticed. In very complex P&Ls, the "after tax" profit is not necessarily the net net. Accounting firms tend to arrange the P&L with some agenda in presenting the figure they want presented as an indicator. Some will stick contingencies in odd places based, I guess, on how much they expect the contingency to come into play. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of > >>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > No > You? I don't think that's what he meant to say, but that's what he said. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I don't think that's what he meant to say, but that's what he said. 'he' is the cat's father. Do you mean me? 'post tax' is a pretty common usage. You may not have heard it, but that doesn't change anything. And despite what Tony said, it's in use on the left hand side of the Atlantic. eg: http://groups.msn.com/R2INRIFinanceAndInvestments/general.msnw?action=get_messag e&ID_Message=60277 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061017122919AAZz0ik http://fairmark.com/forum/read.php?2,30550 etc etc Pick your own search engine to see how common the usage is. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >And despite what Tony said, it's in use on the left hand side of the >Atlantic. eg: Many terms are "in use" on this side of the Atlantic by some individuals who don't use the terms often enough to know what normal term would be. Don't judge what is common by what a few individuals use. Else, you would think that our "English professors" don't know the difference between "affect" and "effect". >http://groups.msn.com/R2INRIFinanceAndInvestments/general.msnw?action=get_messag e&ID_Message=60277 This is a personal entry in discussion forum. When I said it wasn't used here, I was referring to use by accountants. Note that the individual said "post tax", but the person who knew the answer to the question used "after tax"; the term I said was used. One assumes the person with the answers is more familiar with accounting terminology. >http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061017122919AAZz0ik Again, note that the word is used by an individual, and one who calls himself "A dude". Probably not a good source for accounting terms. >http://fairmark.com/forum/read.php?2,30550 Again, note the term is used by the person asking the question, and the answerer uses "after tax". If you want to know if "post tax" is a commonly used expression in the US by people who use accounting terms the most, the hits you are getting are not from the right sources. If Starbucks issues a statement involving their financials, my guess is that it will use "after tax" rather than "post tax" or "post-tax" because an accounting person will have either prepared it or vetted it. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of > >>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > 'he' is the cat's father. Do you mean me? Oops. Sorry about that. I forgot that you wrote the original. > 'post tax' is a pretty common usage. You may not have heard it, but that > doesn't change anything. Well, I've heard it. I've seen something similar in print: "posttax" or, as Tony has mentioned, "post-tax". Compare it to "pretax", which you wrote. Unless you mean a tax on a post, "post" is a prefix, not an independent word. > And despite what Tony said, it's in use on the left hand side of the > Atlantic. eg: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Pick your own search engine to see how common the usage is. You'll find "alot" written a lot on the Internet, too. I wouldn't take usage advice from the general writing on the Internet. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > you wrote. Unless you mean a tax on a post, "post" is a prefix, not > an independent word. Is that still true post 911? Is it true both sides of the Atlantic? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > >>>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of > >>>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Is that still true post 911? Is it true both sides of the Atlantic? "... post-911 ...". Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > "... post-911 ...". We gonna conduct a post mortem on this? We gonna fight the American Legion? http://www.legionpost911.net/ SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of > >>>>>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > We gonna conduct a post mortem on this? When did the post die? > We gonna fight the American Legion? I hope not. > http://www.legionpost911.net/ LOL! Good one. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of >>>>>>>>>>>>> somethig', but I cannot figure out what it really means. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > LOL! Good one. I'm always sharper in the post meridian SignatureJohn Dean Oxford ><john-dean@fraglineone.net> wrote: >> Is that still true post 911? Is it true both sides of the Atlantic? >"... post-911 ...". Or maybe "post-9/11"? "911" is still a phone number (and only three syllables) to me. ¬R http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/aol/whynot.r.html N.B. - Do not on any account attempt to write on both sides of the paper at once. > ><john-dean@fraglineone.net> wrote: > >> Is that still true post 911? Is it true both sides of the Atlantic? > >"... post-911 ...". > > Or maybe "post-9/11"? "911" is still a phone number (and only three > syllables) to me. Ah, yes. Good suggestion. I agree. I always say "nine eleven" for the date and "nine one one" for the phone number. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------- Reverse parts of the user name and ISP name for my e-address >> <john-dean@fraglineone.net> wrote: >>> Is that still true post 911? Is it true both sides of the Atlantic? >>> "... post-911 ...". > > Or maybe "post-9/11"? "911" is still a phone number (and only three > syllables) to me. Except to the American Legion, according to the link I posted for Bill SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > > Or maybe "post-9/11"? "911" is still a phone number (and only three > > syllables) to me. > Except to the American Legion, according to the link I posted for Bill --and to the Porsche club. "Lazypierrot" <adelle59@yahoo.co.jp> wrote... > The real measure of Starbuck's success is that it has helped turn > America into a nation of coffee drinkers again. Not even true. They rode the crest of a wave. The real measure of the latest coffee revolution is that it made a small coffee bar company into a national phenomenon. But if you insist, "Starbucks claim that their success should not be measured purely in financial terms - they also want credit for helping to The rise of coffee consumption in America." The point of the exercise, I think, is that "the real measure" usually means applying an unconventional measure that illustrates the point they wish to make, rather than 'proves anything' - as cold hard financial data would be expected to. The real measure of Star Trek's success may be the number of catch phrases that have entered the language (rather than cash and / or audience figues). Let's boldly split infinitives where none have been split before. The real measure of Coca Cola's marketing company's success is that most people really believe that Coke is the real Thing (rather than increased sales figs, etc.). And they're right, ofcourse. The Real Measure of Obama's success is that he has brought a black man within sight of the White House. SignatureAndrew UK Residents: STOP THE "10p Tax Ripoff" Sign the petition to stop the government stealing from the very poorest tell your friends about this petition: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/10penceband/ > "Lazypierrot" <adelle59@yahoo.co.jp> wrote... >> The real measure of Starbuck's success is that it has helped turn [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The real measure of the latest coffee revolution is that it made a small > coffee bar company into a national phenomenon. [...] Judging by the coffee served in its UK branches, the real achievement of Starbucks is to enhance our appreciation of the coffee at Costa or Caffe Nero. Alan Jones > The real measure of the latest coffee revolution is that it made a small > coffee bar company into a national phenomenon. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > make, rather than 'proves anything' - as cold hard financial data would be > expected to. Thank you very much Andrew for your instructive comment and revealing examples, though I wonder if my sign from other nation than UK would do any good. >Hi, I sometimes find the expression 'the real measure of somethig', >but I cannot figure out what it really means. Would someone kindly [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I do appreciate your kind help in advance. The real measure of the success of the civil rights movement is not black governors, back mayors, black millionairs, a black president, or anything else that only affects a few, but the average level of education, employment, income, savings, and other economic and social indicators, etc. of all black people in the country. And that's the truth. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) |
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