myself

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

mm - 11 Jan 2009 18:39 GMT

From Lincoln's Second Inaugural, one of the most praised speeches in
history (IIUC), first paragraph.

"The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as
well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably
satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no
prediction in regard to it is ventured. "

Oy. "Myself" instead of "me". Perhaps the sentence originally
started with "I trust" and he rearranged it but forgot to change
myself to me. Yes, that's it. I'm certain. Now I can make it
through the rest of the day.

Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which
area they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 10 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years

Reply to this Message

Athel Cornish-Bowden - 11 Jan 2009 19:13 GMT

> From Lincoln's Second Inaugural, one of the most praised speeches in
> history (IIUC), first paragraph.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> myself to me. Yes, that's it. I'm certain. Now I can make it
> through the rest of the day.

Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the
time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
of "me" was as often abused as it is today. In any case, I don't find
anything wrong with it if it's done sparingly. In a speech it seems
quite justifiable to use "myself" when more stress is needed than "me"
can provide.

Signature

athel

Reply to this Message

C. Sowash - 11 Jan 2009 20:21 GMT

> Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the
> time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
> of "me" was as often abused as it is today. In any case, I don't find
> anything wrong with it if it's done sparingly. In a speech it seems
> quite justifiable to use "myself" when more stress is needed than "me"
> can provide.

What are the proper circumstances for using myself rather than me?

Reply to this Message

tony cooper - 11 Jan 2009 20:36 GMT

>> Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the
>> time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>What are the proper circumstances for using myself rather than me?

Giving an inaugural speech.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Reply to this Message

Patok - 11 Jan 2009 20:36 GMT

>> Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the
>> time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> What are the proper circumstances for using myself rather than me?

I don't know how wrong I am, but here is how I feel about the
issue. 'Me' is properly used when the subject is acted upon by something
explicitly external: "the ball hit me", "the pain is killing me";
'myself' - when the source of the action is the speaker: "I am enjoying
myself", "I celebrate myself, and sing myself". And finally, when there
is no specific actor, both can be used: "it is known to me" and "it is
known to myself" seem to myself/me to be both correct.

Signature

You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

Reply to this Message

mm - 12 Jan 2009 01:09 GMT

>>> Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the
>>> time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>is no specific actor, both can be used: "it is known to me" and "it is
>known to myself" seem to myself/me to be both correct.

Absolutely**.

And one other use, as an intesnive. "I myself did it", "The burden
was on me myself."

A few months ago there was a thread about "absolutely". The OP made
it sound like the word hadn't been used before, so I argued with him.
But I think he meant it is used a lot more lately, especially as a
one-word answer, and since then I've noticed he is right.

Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which
area they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 10 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years

Reply to this Message

John Varela - 13 Jan 2009 00:52 GMT

> I don't know how wrong I am, but here is how I feel about the
> issue. 'Me' is properly used when the subject is acted upon by something
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> is no specific actor, both can be used: "it is known to me" and "it is
> known to myself" seem to myself/me to be both correct.

"It is known to myself." No no no no. It can only be known to me.

Signature

John Varela
Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email

Reply to this Message

mm - 13 Jan 2009 01:54 GMT

>> I don't know how wrong I am, but here is how I feel about the
>> issue. 'Me' is properly used when the subject is acted upon by something
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>"It is known to myself." No no no no. It can only be known to me.

Right. I realize I've developed a bad habit of not reading paragraphs
to the end. I hope at least this is only on the net. Anyone, I
didn't notice it. Patok is kidding about "seem to myself", I
hope. "I seem to myself to be a reasonable person." "My feet seem
to me to be too large." and afaicthink of now, every other case uses
"me".

Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which
area they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 10 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years

Reply to this Message

Pat Durkin - 12 Jan 2009 02:21 GMT

> On 11-Jan-2009, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> What are the proper circumstances for using myself rather than me?

When the performer acts by, for, or upon himself.
a) I cut myself shaving.
b) I did the job all by myself.
c) I bought this for myself. (An emphatic clarifier. In fact, "for
myself" could be left out, if context indicates why I bought this item.
It just depends on how much I need to spell out that I was in need and
fulfilled that need.)

Reply to this Message

mm - 11 Jan 2009 20:39 GMT

>> From Lincoln's Second Inaugural, one of the most praised speeches in
>> history (IIUC), first paragraph.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Are you really worried about this, or are you being provocative? At the

Well, I'm certainly not as worried as I made it sound. I could have
made it through the day regardless.

And I don't think Lincoln's speech is praised for its use of grammar,
but for the compassion, forgiveness, and hope for the future that it
conveys, and for the beauty with which it conveys it.

http://blueandgraytrail.com/event/Lincoln's_Second_Inaugural_Speech_%5BFull_Text%5D

For example, "With malice toward none, with charity for all, with
firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive
on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to
care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his
orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting
peace among ourselves and with all nations."

But I do think Lincoln's use here is worth noting.

>time in question I doubt (but don't know) that using "myself" instead
>of "me" was as often abused as it is today. In any case, I don't find
>anything wrong with it if it's done sparingly. In a speech it seems
>quite justifiable to use "myself" when more stress is needed than "me"
>can provide.

Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which
area they are asking questions. I have lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 10 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years

Reply to this Message

Lazarus Cooke - 12 Jan 2009 02:15 GMT

I agree, MM.

Homer nodded, and made a grammatical slip. A great man, but even he
could get carried away by the desire to swanktify plain English.

I'm sure Churchill did the same somewhere.

Lazarus

Reply to this Message

Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009

myself