Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
'anti-farmer'.
Tasmanian Senator Bob Brown (Greens) responded that this was not so,
and that in any event, both government and non-government schools
taught such units in the same way, adding that Anderson was "barking
up the wrong tree".
I thought this expression meant either
a) Reaching an unsound conclusion about the cause of some event or
phenomenon
or
b) Seeking a solution to a problem in the wrong place or by an
unfeasible method.
Was my definition too narrow?
cheers
Chrissy
John O'Flaherty - 22 Jan 2004 04:37 GMT
>Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
>teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>Was my definition too narrow?
Maybe. I would say it means losing the scent of the prey: any manner
of missing the point.
--
john
Carter Jefferson - 22 Jan 2004 04:50 GMT
>Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
>teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Chrissy
Looking in the wrong place, nothing to do with method. Definitely not
(a).
Carter
Carter Jefferson
carterj98@mindspring.com
http://carterj.homestead.com/
David Berkeley - 22 Jan 2004 21:30 GMT
> Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
> teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Chrissy
I think both these are widely used here, but there does seem to be a
tendency to widen the usage to include what used to be described as
"getting the wrong end of the stick" -- meaning to misunderstand what
is going on more generally.
Berko60
Jerry Friedman - 22 Jan 2004 21:43 GMT
> Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
> teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Was my definition too narrow?
I'm fine with using it to mean "attacking in the wrong place", which
seems to be exactly what Sen. Brown meant. Like Carter Jefferson, I
wouldn't use it to mean a), though I would use it for misdirected
action based on that unsound conclusion.

Signature
Jerry Friedman
Martin Ambuhl - 22 Jan 2004 22:47 GMT
> Tasmanian Senator Bob Brown (Greens) responded that this was not so,
> and that in any event, both government and non-government schools
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Was my definition too narrow?
[OED2, s.v. 'bark']
to bark up the wrong tree (orig. U.S.): to make a mistake in one's object
of pursuit or the means taken to attain it.
1832 J. Hall Leg. West 46 You are barking up the wrong tree, Johnson.
1855 Haliburton Hum. Nat. 124 in Bartlett Dict. Amer., If you think to run
a rig on me, you have made a mistake in the child, and barked up the wrong
tree.
1887 N. & Q. 17 Sept. 221 Mr. Rye is barking up the wrong tree.
.

Signature
Martin Ambuhl
meirman - 23 Jan 2004 00:13 GMT
In alt.english.usage on 21 Jan 2004 18:26:01 -0800
chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) posted:
>Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
>teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>b) Seeking a solution to a problem in the wrong place or by an
>unfeasible method.
Looking for anything in the wrong place.
Although Brown's answer seems off-target. Anderson is complaining
about state schools becasue the govt. has much more control over state
schools than over non-governtment school. Duh.
Although I don't understand what Anderson expects. We should grow
more people than we can feed? They shouldn't even talk about the
issue.
>Was my definition too narrow?
I think so.
>cheers
>
>Chrissy
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years
Robert Bannister - 23 Jan 2004 01:24 GMT
> In alt.english.usage on 21 Jan 2004 18:26:01 -0800
> chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) posted:
>
>>Today Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, John Anderson asserted that
>>teaching of sustainable development in state schools was
>>'anti-farmer'.
> Looking for anything in the wrong place.
>
> Although Brown's answer seems off-target. Anderson is complaining
> about state schools becasue the govt. has much more control over state
> schools than over non-governtment school. Duh.
Despite the fees charged by State and private schools alike, most money
for education comes from the federal government. The present government
has skewed the pay-out so that now over half goes to private schools.
The actual control of the schools, however, is by the various states,
many of which are Labor.

Signature
Rob Bannister
meirman - 23 Jan 2004 02:22 GMT
In alt.english.usage on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:24:08 +0800 Robert
Bannister <robban@it.net.au> posted:
>> In alt.english.usage on 21 Jan 2004 18:26:01 -0800
>> chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) posted:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>The actual control of the schools, however, is by the various states,
>many of which are Labor.
I'm very confused, but I accept that I was very likely wrong in that
paragraph.
How do you feel in general about public money going to private
schools? Is this an old set-up based on what the English have, or
something new?
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years
Alan Jones - 23 Jan 2004 09:09 GMT
[...]
> How do you feel in general about public money going to private
> schools? Is this an old set-up based on what the English have, or
> something new?
"What the English _had_ ", I think -- there has been effectively no public
money going directly to private schools since the end of the Direct Grant
system (1976) and the Assisted Places scheme (1998). There remain some
exceptions, I think - e.g. a few specialist music schools.
One could argue that the current English treatment of some private schools
as "charities" and thereby affording them certain tax advantages does amount
indirectly to "public money going to private schools". The position is less
clear when one considers the disadvantages to a school of not being treated
as a business (not being able to reclaim VAT, for example). Then there's
the matter of private schools employing teachers trained at the taxpayers'
expense (a similar argument arises about doctors who prefer private practice
to working exclusively in the National Health Service). On the other hand,
there is the very considerable saving to public funds of not having to
accommodate in State schools the children currently educated privately.
Personally, I'd be happy to see some contribution from public funds to the
independent schools, if that meant they could enrol more children from
households of modest income. My own teaching career took me first to a State
grammar school, then to a Direct Grant school, and finally to a voluntary
aided grammar school (i.e. State-financed but with some independence) that
eventually chose fully independent (i.e. "private") status. They were all
three similar in selective intake and high-level academic outcome, and the
last is now (ten years after I retired!) really very impressive academically
and otherwise, and flourishing mightily. That would be equally true of, say,
the top hundred or so of English independent schools -- most of which, by
the way, are day schools to which the old
funny-clothes-and-aristocratic-drawl boarding-school image is quite alien.
Alan Jones
Robert Bannister - 24 Jan 2004 00:55 GMT
> In alt.english.usage on Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:24:08 +0800 Robert
> Bannister <robban@it.net.au> posted:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> schools? Is this an old set-up based on what the English have, or
> something new?
Although my personal view is biassed towards having only State run
schools, it is a logical argument that each child should be given the
same amount of money whatever type of school it attends. Our present
Thatcheresque federal government believes in privatisation of everything
and has steadily increased the amounts going to private schools. The
largest part of this goes to those schools that charge low to middle
range fees, but the very rich schools have also gained. This has come at
a loss to the State system which the PM and Anderson now have the gall
to criticise.

Signature
Rob Bannister
W Australia
Fran - 23 Jan 2004 06:58 GMT
> > In alt.english.usage on 21 Jan 2004 18:26:01 -0800
> > chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) posted:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> The actual control of the schools, however, is by the various states,
> many of which are Labor.
While most MONEY for education comes from the Federal Government (in
the form of commonwealth grants), the state government remains the
service provider for the government sector -- and is thus immediately
responsible for programs, syllabus, employment etc ...
This allows the Feds to have a whine about anything that suits their
immediate political ends going on in education, without being under
any pressure to propose anything constructive.
FRAN
meirman - 23 Jan 2004 08:43 GMT
In alt.english.usage on 22 Jan 2004 22:58:31 -0800 franbarlow@mail.com
(Fran) posted:
>> > In alt.english.usage on 21 Jan 2004 18:26:01 -0800
>> > chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com (chrissy) posted:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>immediate political ends going on in education, without being under
>any pressure to propose anything constructive.
That is pretty much the situation with the "No child left behind"
program passed in Congress a couple years ago. With no money given to
the school systems to do whatever was mandated.
>FRAN
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years