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Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2009monty python again
Hello, I have another little problem with MP. Have a bit of patience with me, plz. 1) Judge I (EI): Oh, I've had a bitch of a morning in the high court! I can't clearly cope with the sentence. Is it like he had a prostitute there, an annoying person or rather that the morning was unpleasant for him? Or am I absolutely out? 8-( 2) Judge I: Oh, I COULD STAMP MY LITTLE FEET, the way those counsellors carry on. Is the meaning - to stomp? Do the counsellors stomp at the court? (I would not say) I know they must stand up. And that is why I am confused, bemused, distraught... Oh, those meanings. 3) Urban Spaceman. Is there any ambiguous meaning hidden? Thank you in advance Tina >Hello, I have another little problem with MP. Have a bit of patience >with me, plz. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >there, an annoying person or rather that the morning was unpleasant >for him? Or am I absolutely out? 8-( "Bitch" is used here to mean "terrible". It has nothing to do with a female anything. We use "bitch" in several ways. To "bitch" is to complain. "Bitchin' good" is very good. We do use "bitch" to mean a female - "She's a bitch" means she's mean and annoying - but there are other uses that do not have a sex connection. >2) Judge I: Oh, I COULD STAMP MY LITTLE FEET, the way those >counsellors carry on. >Is the meaning - to stomp? Do the counsellors stomp at the court? (I >would not say) I know they must stand up. Yes. Stomp. Almost. The whole phrase, which includes "little", indicates that he's doing something effeminate. Stamping one's feet is not quite a stomp. It's a petulant gesture of impatience. A lot of Python bits have homosexual basis. >And that is why I am confused, bemused, distraught... Oh, those >meanings. > >3) Urban Spaceman. >Is there any ambiguous meaning hidden? Dunno about this one. Of all things for a non-native speaker to try to understand, I would think that Monty Python is among the most difficult. Their stuff is full of irony, nuance, word play, and obscure (to many) references. The above are easy, but a lot of the Python stuff is not understandable to many Americans who have an otherwise complete understanding of English. A word of advice, Tina...don't use text message abbreviations like "plz" in this group. We'll explain terms you don't understand, but expect you to use regular words when you do understand.  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>Hello, I have another little problem with MP. Have a bit of patience >>with me, plz. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >is not quite a stomp. It's a petulant gesture of impatience. A lot >of Python bits have homosexual basis. "Stomp" is not used very much in BrE so "stamping" includes what Americans would call "stomping". >>And that is why I am confused, bemused, distraught... Oh, those >>meanings. >> >>3) Urban Spaceman. >>Is there any ambiguous meaning hidden? There was a song "I'm the Urban Spaceman". The words are at: http://www.neilinnes.org/I.htm#urbanspaceman The Urban Spaceman is a perfect human being, but he doesn't exist. The original performance is on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbLDI5lNdRQ >Dunno about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >"plz" in this group. We'll explain terms you don't understand, but >expect you to use regular words when you do understand. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) > Tina <KristinaZip@gmail.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Stomp" is not used very much in BrE so "stamping" includes what > Americans would call "stomping". Thanks for these explanations - that's why I read here - one always learns something. I was not aware that there is any difference between BrE and AmE in "stamp" vs. "stomp" - I thought that both were used in both idioms, with different meanings. In particular, I thought that in both dialects, "stamp" is what one does to postage stamps &c., when one applies ink, or formative pressure in manufacturing processes; while "stomp" is what one does with one's feet, to flatten something or produce noise. SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. >> Tina <KristinaZip@gmail.com> wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >while "stomp" is what one does with one's feet, to flatten something or >produce noise. I'm not sure you have it yet. "Stamping" and "stomping" are two different things. Stamping one's foot is a reaction of annoyance or anger in AmE. I'm not sure that it's not the same in BrE. There's usually a single stamp of the foot or just a couple of stamps of the foot. Stomping is more continuous. You stomp your feet as you walk around if you are clumsy or if you are angry. You stomp in or stomp out of a room. It's not a single gesture of annoyance the way a stamp of the foot is. You don't stamp postage stamps, though. You stamp the envelope, which means you apply a stamp onto the envelope. You might stamp an envelope with a rubber stamp that says something like "Do Not Bend". The industrial uses of "stamp" involve machinery, not feet. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Yes. Stomp. Almost. The whole phrase, which includes "little", >>>> indicates that he's doing something effeminate. Stamping one's feet [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > room. It's not a single gesture of annoyance the way a stamp of the > foot is. Thanks, that makes sense. > You don't stamp postage stamps, though. You stamp the envelope, which > means you apply a stamp onto the envelope. You might stamp an > envelope with a rubber stamp that says something like "Do Not Bend". > The industrial uses of "stamp" involve machinery, not feet. In this case you didn't get that I get it. Of course you (or I) don't stamp the stamp, the post office does it. And of course the industrial stamping is by machine, not feet. :) Industrially related, however, don't they /stomp/ the grapes when they make wine? SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. >>>>> Yes. Stomp. Almost. The whole phrase, which includes "little", >>>>> indicates that he's doing something effeminate. Stamping one's [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> > Thanks, that makes sense. > Industrially related, however, don't they /stomp/ the grapes when > they make wine? There might be some regionalism in pronunciation going on here. No one that I am acquainted with says "stomp" for anything, unless they are quoting some song or statement made by people who use "stomp". We "stamp" everything, and if we are making wine in that particular way, then we "stamp" the grapes, too. We "stamp out vermin", whether it is a few stamps of the feet or many. Horses are known for stamping in the stables. I live in the upper midwest. M-W Online: Main Entry: 1tramp Pronunciation: \'tramp, vi 1 & vt 1 are also 'trämp, 'tro?mp\ Function: verb Etymology: Middle English; akin to Middle Low German trampen to stamp Date: 14th century Main Entry: 1stamp Pronunciation: \'stamp; vt2a & vi2 are also 'stämp or 'sto?mp\ Function: verb Etymology: Middle English; akin to Old High German stampfon to stamp and perhaps to Greek stembein to shake up Date: 13th century transitive verb1: to pound or crush with a pestle or a heavy instrument2 a (1): to strike or beat forcibly with the bottom of the foot (2): to bring down (the foot) forcibly "Tramp, tramp, tramp the boys are marching." >>>>>> Yes. Stomp. Almost. The whole phrase, which includes "little", >>>>>> indicates that he's doing something effeminate. Stamping one's [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >that I am acquainted with says "stomp" for anything, unless they are >quoting some song or statement made by people who use "stomp". If you had a teenage son, told him that he could not go to the concert, and he left the room noisily as teenage boys are wont to do, how would describe his exit? He stamped out of the room or He stomped out of the room or, a different scenario: Shouting to your upstairs neighbor: Quit stomping around up there! or Quit stamping around up there! Even if you wouldn't use either, which sounds right to you? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>>> "Stomp" is not used very much in BrE so "stamping" includes what >>>>>> Americans would call "stomping". [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Even if you wouldn't use either, which sounds right to you? I can't hear much difference, to tell the truth. It's just that I wouldn't use "stomp". I believe I associate it with cowboy boots and line dancing. Things like that. <snip> > > If you had a teenage son, told him that he could not go to the > > concert, and he left the room noisily as teenage boys are wont to do, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > wouldn't use "stomp". I believe I associate it with cowboy boots and > line dancing. Things like that. Same here, for those examples. But in a barroom fight, if one man is on the floor and another brings his boot down hard on the victim, that's stomping, not stamping. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > Stamping one's foot is a reaction of annoyance or > anger in AmE. I'm not sure that it's not the same in BrE. It's more-or-less the same, yes. One may stamp one's feet for reasons other than annoyance or anger -- I've known members of the audience at concerts stamp their feet while applauding just to make more noise (effective on wooden floors, no so much so on concrete). The SOED tells me that in AmE "stamping" can just mean "very angry", I don't think we use it that way over here. > You don't stamp postage stamps, though. They're called "stamps" because they were originally printed by "stamping" a mark with an inked stamp onto the paper. Cheers, Daniel. > I'm not sure you have it yet. "Stamping" and "stomping" are two > different things. Stamping one's foot is a reaction of annoyance or > anger in AmE. I'm not sure that it's not the same in BrE. There's > usually a single stamp of the foot or just a couple of stamps of the > foot. Foot-stamping can be continuous, as in a movie theater when something goes wrong with the projector and the audience starts stamping their feet. > Stomping is more continuous. You stomp your feet as you walk around > if you are clumsy or if you are angry. You stomp in or stomp out of a > room. It's not a single gesture of annoyance the way a stamp of the > foot is. Stomping is also a violent, not usually continuous act involving a downward motion of the foot on a victim. A propos of that, in The Washington Post Magazine for March 29, 2009, in a story about Hemingway, bullfighting, and the town of Ronda, Spain, we find the following: "One of the men tells me, 'Cayetano is not fighting tomorrow. He was gored!' The other man puts a hand over his heart. One of them pounds his foot on the ground to indicate a stomping." SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> I'm not sure you have it yet. "Stamping" and "stomping" are two >> different things. Stamping one's foot is a reaction of annoyance or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >tomorrow. He was gored!' The other man puts a hand over his heart. > One of them pounds his foot on the ground to indicate a stomping." Yeah, but those are exceptions. Generally, when we hear about someone stamping their foot, it's a reaction of annoyance or anger and not done in a continuous tattoo. It's also done with pleasure. Listen along with "We Will Rock You" and you may stamp repeatedly. (You don't toe-tap to Queen) But these are exceptions to the usual use. We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. Still, when you hear "He was stomping around", it means that his footfalls were heavy. We don't take it to mean he went around kicking in heads. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get > stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. I read it to mean that the bull did the stomping. That indicates the violence involved in a stomp. > Still, when you hear > "He was stomping around", I can't recall ever hearing that. Or "stamping around", for that matter, but if I were to describe the action I would call it "stamping". > it means that his footfalls were heavy. We > don't take it to mean he went around kicking in heads. Check today's "Frazz" comic strip at http://comics.com/frazz/ I would use "stomping" to describe what boys do to ice puddles, but not to describe someone walking across a floor. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I can't recall ever hearing that. Or "stamping around", for that >matter, Change one letter to give "stamping ground". It seems that in AmE that is sometimes "stomping ground". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >>> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Change one letter to give "stamping ground". It seems that in AmE that >is sometimes "stomping ground". I thought that "stomping ground" had definitely found its way into BrE (but rarely "stomping" by itself). There was a popular late 50s - early 60s jazz band -"The Clyde Valley Stompers", but that was almost a deliberate Americanism. http://www.beltona.co.uk/clyde-valley-stompers-1956-scots-traditional-jaz z-p-595.html> et al. SignatureIan >>>> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >>>> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >I thought that "stomping ground" had definitely found its way into BrE >(but rarely "stomping" by itself). I haven't noticed it. >There was a popular late 50s - early 60s jazz band -"The Clyde Valley >Stompers", but that was almost a deliberate Americanism. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >et al. The word would have been a jazz import. OED: stomp, v.2 3. Chiefly Jazz. a. trans. To perform (a dance) to a lively, stamping rhythm. b. With off. To beat (a tempo) with one's foot as a signal to a jazz band to start to play; also, to signal to (a band) in this way. Also absol. or intr. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>>> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >>>> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >There was a popular late 50s - early 60s jazz band -"The Clyde Valley >Stompers", but that was almost a deliberate Americanism. One of Benny Goodman's hits was "Stompin' at the Savoy". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * On 30 Mar 2009, John Varela wrote >> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > would use "stomping" to describe what boys do to ice puddles, but > not to describe someone walking across a floor. My usage is that "stamping" is what you do when you remain in one place; when you're "stomping" the foot-to-floor movement is the same, but you're moving around. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> it means that his footfalls were heavy. We >> don't take it to mean he went around kicking in heads. Here's an example used in a book. Last line of the page: http://tinyurl.com/c3gc5e SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >>> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Here's an example used in a book. Last line of the page: > http://tinyurl.com/c3gc5e If he ain't stomping out the vintage, then I don't think I will go there. >> We use "stomp" in different ways. Victims get stomped, teams get >> stomped, and - I guess - bullfight fans stomp. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > matter, but if I were to describe the action I would call it > "stamping". Although uncommon, I believe "stamping around" is a U S Midwest localism. To walk around heavy-footed purposely to demonstrate anger or frustration. >>>Hello, I have another little problem with MP. Have a bit of patience >>>with me, plz. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >"Stomp" is not used very much in BrE so "stamping" includes what >Americans would call "stomping". You think? We stamp our feet just like you do. We'd do that sitting or standing as an expression of petulance or annoyance. Stomping is anger: He stomped out of the room. You wouldn't say he stamped out of the room, would you? We might tell an ungainly teenager not to stomp around, but we're referring to the noise of his footsteps. We might refer to an upstairs neighbor as a person who stomps around. Again, it's the noise of the footsteps. Would you use "stamp" in either case? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>Hello, I have another little problem with MP. Have a bit of patience >>>>with me, plz. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >of the room, would you? > Yes, I would. As I said earlier, "stomp" is a word not, in general, used in BrE. There might be a few exceptions to that statement, but I think the word might have been familiar to some Brits as a strange Americanism. I suspect that for many people the word did not enter their consciousnesses until the (British) dance troupe Stomp started stamping and stumping their stuff on stage. Their use of the word appears to be the same as the Jazz usage. OED: stomp, v.1 Used by Browning (to obtain a rime) for stump or stamp. 1845 BROWNING Englishm. Italy 272 And then will the flaxen-wigged Image Be carried in pomp Thro' the plain, while in gallant procession The priests mean to stomp. stomp, v.2 [Var. STAMP v. in senses of branch II. {To bring down the foot heavily}] Chiefly U.S. (orig. dial.). 1.a. intr. = STAMP v. 2a. Also fig. b. = STAMP v. 2b. c. = STAMP v. 2e. 2.a. trans. = STAMP v. 3a. Also fig. b. to stomp one's feet. Cf. STAMP v. 3c. c. To stamp or trample on (a person, etc.). Also transf. d. With out. = STAMP v. 3d. Chiefly transf. e. To beat out (a rhythm) with one's foot. f. To tramp or trudge between (a series of places). 3. Chiefly Jazz. a. trans. To perform (a dance) to a lively, stamping rhythm. b. With off. To beat (a tempo) with one's foot as a signal to a jazz band to start to play; also, to signal to (a band) in this way. Also absol. or intr. c. intr. To dance or play a stomp. Cf. STOMP n. 1. >We might tell an ungainly teenager not to stomp around, but we're >referring to the noise of his footsteps. We might refer to an >upstairs neighbor as a person who stomps around. Again, it's the >noise of the footsteps. Would you use "stamp" in either case? In BrE, Yes. Similarly I've not met a use in BrE of the AmE word "tromp": Var. (orig. and chiefly U.S.) of TRAMP v.1 tramp, v.1 1. intr. To tread or walk with a firm, heavy, resonant step; to stamp. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >There might be a few exceptions to that statement, but I think the word >might have been familiar to some Brits as a strange Americanism. I >suspect that for many people the word did not enter their >consciousnesses until the (British) dance troupe Stomp started stamping >and stumping their stuff on stage. Their use of the word appears to be >the same as the Jazz usage. I omitted <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stomp_(dance_troupe)> http://www.stomponline.com/ SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) Thank you all for explaining the meanings, differences and nuances to me and also for giving me kind advice. Tina, CZ > >3) Urban Spaceman. > >Is there any ambiguous meaning hidden? > > Dunno about this one. Urban Spaceman is the title of a song by the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band, written I believe by Neil Innes. You can watch them sing it here: http://snipurl.com/en5wx SignatureActing should be bigger than life. Scripts should be bigger than life. It should all be bigger than life. -- Bette Davis >Urban Spaceman is the title of a song by the Bonzo Dog Doodah Band, >written I believe by Neil Innes. --who wrote songs for Monty Python together with Eric Idle. |
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