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Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2009proprietor and owner
Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor and owner? Thank you Kristina, CZ >Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >and owner? >Thank you > >Kristina, CZ IIRC, proprius in Latin means the adjective "own". So I hope there is no difference. I didn't bother to check online dictionaries, because I was sure you had done that already.  SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >and owner? >Thank you Yes. Even though the dictionary defines them as having the same meaning, the actual usage is different. You would use "owner" to describe the person who owns any kind of business. You would use "proprietor" to describe the person who owns and runs a store. John is the owner of a trucking company. Bill is the proprietor of a clothing store. Both are owners. You can also say that "Bill is the owner of a clothing store". You can also say that John is the proprietor of a trucking company. However, in normal AmE usage, you would not say "John is the proprietor of a trucking company". What I've said above is *not* a rule. It's how we normally use the words in everyday speech and writing in AmE. (The usual caveat applies to BrE. Always wait for a Brit to answer a question like this because they sometimes do things differently.) SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >>and owner? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >(The usual caveat applies to BrE. Always wait for a Brit to answer a >question like this because they sometimes do things differently.) This Brit has been waiting for a more knowledgeable Brit to reply. I would interpret "proprietor" in BrE to mean an owner-manager: someone who both owns a business and runs it. I would also understand a proprietor to be a human being rather than a company. The uses of the words in specialist contexts may be different. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >>> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > The uses of the words in specialist contexts may be different. In the U.S., it was once a common convention (now somewhat obsolete) to include on business signs, "Thomas Jones - Proprietor" or "Thomas Jones - Prop." The implication was that Jones was the owner-manager or at least the person entirely responsible for the operation. The tone was intended to suggest that it was quite a good thing that Jones was in charge, setting the business apart from those not so fortunate. It would be viewed today as somewhat pretentious, unless there was an intention to hark back to an earlier time, perhaps by designing the sign in an old style. It is also used facetiously in speech, perhaps welcoming one to stay the night at the speaker's home as if he operated a hotel, the speaker referring to himself as "Tom Jones, proprietor." That would be mildly humorous. "Tom Jones, owner" would fall flat. Proprietor may be defined as owner, but it always implies active management, close to the action. And when the active management is of far more importance than who might actually own the operation or collect the bulk of the profits, proprietor is the more meaningful term. A person who manages a brothel would rarely be called the owner or manager. That person is the proprietor. It is sometimes hard to make the distinction between a business owner who could be called a proprietor with a straight face and another one-person business owner who might be entitled. Calling a delivery truck owner-driver the proprietor would sound most peculiar. Proprietor implies substance. [...] > In the U.S., it was once a common convention (now somewhat obsolete) > to include on business signs, "Thomas Jones - Proprietor" or "Thomas [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > term. A person who manages a brothel would rarely be called the owner > or manager. That person is the proprietor. That's also how I (BrE) understand the usage of "proprietor". When I was a boy, my parents managed, and eventually came to own, a family omnibus and haulage business. Its original proprietor was my paternal grandmother Alice Lavinia, and the company went by her name: A.L.Jones and Co. The company letter-head had my father's name as "proprietor", which for some time after I learned to read I said as "prop-eater". But years pass and I am now in my late 70s: I agree with Mr Clough that the term would now be thought too antiquated for general use. Alan Jones > [...] >> In the U.S., it was once a common convention (now somewhat obsolete) [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > with Mr Clough that the term would now be thought too antiquated for > general use. Although in fact all land in England has a proprietor (or at least it does once title is registered) because the term is used in law and by the Land Registry - the owner is called the Registered Proprietor and he is registered on the Proprietorship Register. I think the choice of word (which must date from the creation of the system in 1925) must just be selection of a slightly more formal/pompous word for "owner" - though they may have been trying to distinguish between the owner of the registerd interest (which could be a lease) and the owner of the freehold of the land. The Hotel Proporietors Act certainly applies to all hotel owners, not just to owner-managers. Chris R >In the U.S., it was once a common convention (now somewhat obsolete) to >include on business signs, "Thomas Jones - Proprietor" or "Thomas Jones >- Prop." That convention was also used in the UK. My first exposure to the word "proprietor" was on business signs. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) Thank you for your responses. I thought there would be something behind it but was not absolutely sure because the 'hidden' meaning is not included in the online dictionaries, neither anywhere else. It is interesting how many things one can learn in one discussion. Kristina > Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor > and owner? I used to own a telephone call center (answering service). I called myself the proprietor, even though I had about 30 employees and delegated authority. It was amusing to see that most of the business world was not prepared for someone calling himself a proprietor. When running advertising or buying or leasing equipment most data entry systems had predefined roles listed such as president, vice president, manager, chairman, owner, even purchaser, acquisitions, and marketing, but nothing for proprietor. A yellow pages rep who didn't have such a restriction on his entry form insisted on listing me as president, which I always thought was pretentious. The world, it seems, is not built for proprietors. > Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor > and owner? > Thank you > > Kristina, CZ I have never heard of anyone being a proprietor of personal property. I am a homeowner and I own lawnmower. I also own an automobile. I have never heard of anyone being a proprietor of real property unless it was leased or rented. If I were sole owner of a business which did or did not own property, I'd consider myself the proprietor. If the business was unincorporated and jointly owned, guess what? If I were a part owner of a business, it would be incorporated and I'd be a stockholder if I wasn't an officer of the company - President, Treasurer, Secretary, or a Member of the Board. >> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I have never heard of anyone being a proprietor of real property unless it >was leased or rented. What about the proprietor of a hotel or guest house? >If I were sole owner of a business which did or did not own property, I'd >consider myself the proprietor. If the business was unincorporated and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >stockholder if I wasn't an officer of the company - President, Treasurer, >Secretary, or a Member of the Board. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor > >> and owner? <snip> > >I have never heard of anyone being a proprietor of real property unless it > >was leased or rented. > > What about the proprietor of a hotel or guest house? Those are rented, albeit in parts or over a shortish term, aren't they? In the situations to which Rambler alludes the property is a business asset, and is readily identified with the commercial entity. The proprietor of such a business is also sometimes called an "owner-operator". SignatureOdysseus >> >> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >> >> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Those are rented, albeit in parts or over a shortish term, aren't they? The rooms are rented, but the hotel or guest house is owned by someone. The owner of a small hotel or a guest house is often called the proprietor. In the UK, they have such status. See the Hotel Proprietor Act of 1956. In the US, even _The New York Times_ recognizes the term: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9B0DE4DA1738E23ABC4E51DFBF668382669FDE Also, see http://www.guesthouseatlostriver.com/ where David Mickow is a proprietor. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> >> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor > >> >> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > someone. The owner of a small hotel or a guest house is often called > the proprietor. So what's the argument: why did you question the applicability of Rambler's remark to those businesses? AFAICT they're exactly the kind of property he meant. SignatureOdysseus >> >> >> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >> >> >> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Rambler's remark to those businesses? AFAICT they're exactly the kind of >property he meant. The way I read Rambler's posts is that he means the opposite. Rambler is excepting real property unless the property is leased or rented. A guest house or hotel may be on property that is owned by the proprietor. This is borne out by his subsequent post where he says that all the hotels he knows about are owned by corporations or LLCs. It seems he feels that this would exclude the use of "proprietorship". Which it doesn't. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida <snip> > >> >> >I have never heard of anyone being a proprietor of real > >> >> >property unless it was leased or rented. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > guest house or hotel may be on property that is owned by the > proprietor. I guess the difference between our readings is that I understood R's proprietor to be the lessor, while according to your interpretation he's conversely the lessee or tenant. In my mind the latter situtation is inconsistent with the term "proprietor", which implies ownership, so I didn't even consider it. SignatureOdysseus ><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >inconsistent with the term "proprietor", which implies ownership, so I >didn't even consider it. I don't quite follow you. I don't see R's proprietor to be the lessee or tenant, but he could be. That's immaterial. He is the owner of the hotel business. He may own or lease the property. If he owns and runs the hotel business, he's the proprietor. The ownership of the business entity is what makes him the proprietor. Many, if not most, proprietors are also tenants. Few restaurant, hotel, or store owners are also owners of the property. If they lease space in a building, and conduct a business within that space, they are the proprietors of that business. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >>> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > What about the proprietor of a hotel or guest house? All the hotels I'm familiar with are owned by corporations or LLCs. I don't charge rent for the use of the guest house or over-nights on my yacht at my palatial estate in Florida. >>>> Hello. Is there any special difference between the terms proprietor >>>> and owner? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >All the hotels I'm familiar with are owned by corporations or LLCs. That has nothing to do with the use of the word "proprietor". A sole owner may incorporate - and, in fact, most do - and still be the proprietor. If the individual who is the primary owner operates the business, he can be called the proprietor even if there are other corporate officers. There are many hotels in this area that are owned by one person or one family. The tourist area is full of "Mom and Pop" hotels. A common way to get a green card is to buy a business here. Hotels are one of the businesses commonly purchased for this reason. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida [snip] > A sole owner may incorporate - and, in fact, most do - and still be the > proprietor. [snip] If you say so,.. |
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