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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Do California lawmakers actually know how to write proper English?
Topic: less vs fewer Assumption: Less --> not countable; fewer --> countable Example: Less crime; fewer police. I was surprised this morning when I read the California ballot initiative which stated "Potentially less ups and downs in state spending over time." REF: http://www.votesmart.org/election_ballot_measures_detail.php?ballot_id=1357 Assuming lawmakers are educated in proper English usage, I'm saddened they could write "less ups and downs" in a well-reviewed legal document; shouldn't they have written "fewer ups and downs" instead of less? Or is my assumption of the proper use of less versus fewer incorrect? Annu Pai > Topic: less vs fewer > Assumption: Less --> not countable; fewer --> countable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Or is my assumption of the proper use of less versus fewer incorrect? You're right. Fewer eggs, less omelette.  SignatureWatch out for the random hedgehogs >> Topic: less vs fewer >> Assumption: Less --> not countable; fewer --> countable [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Fewer eggs, less omelette. Perhaps "ups and downs" is to be seen as a single compound equivalent to "variation", making "less" appropriate. Alan Jones >> You're right. >> >> Fewer eggs, less omelette. > >Perhaps "ups and downs" is to be seen as a single compound equivalent to >"variation", making "less" appropriate. I believe Ups and Downs is a racetrack in England. >Alan Jones SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >shouldn't they have written "fewer ups and downs" instead of less? Do you really think they mean that spending will change fewer times? I can't imagine it would ever stay exactly the same from one year to the next. Clearly what matters is the magnitude, not the frequency, of the variation: the ups and downs will be smaller. ¬R "I love Blip just because it's the absolute opposite of fun" http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/travelog/19990710.html --Kibo > Topic: less vs fewer > Assumption: Less --> not countable; fewer --> countable [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Or is my assumption of the proper use of less versus fewer incorrect? This "error" has been around for a very very long time: K. ÆLFRED Boeth. xxxv. §5 [6] Swa mid læs worda swa mid ma, swæðer we hit ȝereccan maȝon. ("whether we may prove it with less words or with more") Since King Alfred's time I don't think there has ever been a time when one couldn't use "less"' to mean fewer. Signatureathel > K. ÆLFRED Boeth. xxxv. §5 [6] Swa mid læs worda swa mid ma, swæðer we > hit ȝereccan maȝon. ("whether we may prove it with less words or with > more") It's a good thing my browser is set for Unicode. > Topic: less vs fewer > Assumption: Less --> not countable; fewer --> countable [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > could write "less ups and downs" in a well-reviewed legal document; > shouldn't they have written "fewer ups and downs" instead of less? Or "less up-and-down", if they're trying to avoid technical-sounding terms like "oscillation". Indeed, if they're aiming at a colloquial style, they might have considered "fewer" to be excessively formal. Regarding Glenn's point, if they didn't actually mean the number or frequency of changes in spending, referring rather to the amplitude of the variation, I'd expect "smaller ups and downs". SignatureOdysseus |
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