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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009People like you
The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like you, looking for that guy". He, clearly upset, said "How do you know they were like me? Maybe they were fatter than me, or shorter?". At which point I started laughing, and conceded he had a point, but it took a while to pacify him. How justified was his indignation? Would a native English speaker (American in this case) normally understand "people like you" in such a way? Background to the story - we started getting calls on the home phone from people (presumably from collection agencies), looking for that guy who I know used to have that same phone number before we got it in 2001. I kept telling them that he doesn't have that phone number since at least 2001, and I have no idea where he might be at present, and they kept calling. So when that particular guy called, I told him something to the effect of "No, he doesn't have that phone number anymore. We've been getting calls from people like you, looking for him, but I have no idea where he might be.".  SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. > The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >a while to pacify him. > How justified was his indignation? I think he was. It's an implied insult. Whatever you thought that caller and the other people have in common, it's not favorable. > Would a native English speaker (American in this case) normally understand "people like you" in such a way? It's an individual reaction, not a characteristic reaction of all Americans, but there's enough people who would take offense that it's not a good phrase to use. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >>I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think he was. It's an implied insult. Whatever you thought that > caller and the other people have in common, it's not favorable. As an English British (UK) speaker, I agree. I would take "People like you" is an implied insult. SignatureBrian Cryer www.cryer.co.uk/brian > "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > As an English British (UK) speaker, I agree. I would take "People like > you" is an implied insult. Thanks for all the answers. I still can't get the feeling for that phrase, and feel it as a neutral one. I wouldn't be offended if I heard it in a similar situation, although maybe I should, if it was coming from a native speaker. But I'll keep what y'all said in mind. SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. >> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >it in a similar situation, although maybe I should, if it was coming >from a native speaker. But I'll keep what y'all said in mind. People like you don't mind if they insult others, but some of us are more considerate. Have I just insulted you? I did it, of course, to make a point. No real insult intended, but my phrasing was insulting. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Have I just insulted you? I did it, of course, to make a point. No > real insult intended, but my phrasing was insulting. Yes, but the insulting part was not the "people like you" portion, it was what followed. Up to then it was neutral. Or at least that's how I felt it. Consider this sentence: People like you, writing in a.e.u., really help non-native speakers with their English. Should an intended recipient be insulted? In this particular case, I think not, as it is obviously meant as praise. And I asked the question to begin with, because I felt that in my original example, the illustrative parts (minus the "people like you") were neutral too. >>>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >to begin with, because I felt that in my original example, the >illustrative parts (minus the "people like you") were neutral too. What you are saying is that the qualification determines if it, or is not, an insult. In your first example (getting calls from people like you) there is an implied qualification that the calls are not appreciated. In my example, there is a direct negative qualification. In your second example, there is a direct - but positive - qualification. So what you come up with is that, without a direct and positive qualification, the term will be taken as an insult. And it was. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > real insult intended, but my phrasing was insulting. > Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com >>>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> > Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? Because I clearly said that you are inconsiderate because you don't mind if you insult others. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? Because "you people" makes you a member of a group that characteristically does whatever the speaker is about to criticize or complain about. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? > > Because "you people" makes you a member of a group that > characteristically does whatever the speaker is about to criticize > or complain about. But there wasn't any complaint or criticism. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com > >> Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > > But there wasn't any complaint or criticism. Oh, I think there was a clearly implied complaint that "you people" are pestering me by calling "looking for that guy". SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >>> Please, please, explain that to me. Why is it insulting? >> Because "you people" makes you a member of a group that >> characteristically does whatever the speaker is about to criticize or >> complain about. > But there wasn't any complaint or criticism. Since the phrase "people like you" is normally used where there is complaint or criticism, the phrase itself has become tainted and implies criticism or complaint - even where such criticism or complaint is not intended. From the discussion it is clear that this is true for many people (myself included) but not true for others. So if I said (no insult intended): People like you don't understand what we are saying. then have I dealt you a back-handed insult or made a statement of fact (or both)? Personally I would consider it insulting (even thou no insult was intended), so would prefer to avoid the phrase to instead of risking offense. SignatureBrian Cryer www.cryer.co.uk/brian >> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it in a similar situation, although maybe I should, if it was coming > from a native speaker. But I'll keep what y'all said in mind. I remember people getting offended when I said "you people" and having no idea what they were upset about. They never could explain it to me. Since I live in the South, I'm sure they wouldn't have been offended by "you all". What should I have said? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com >>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > What should I have said? "I've been getting calls from other people looking for that guy." would have been inoffensive. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida On 03 Jul 2009, tony cooper wrote >>>> "tony cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > "I've been getting calls from other people looking for that > guy." would have been inoffensive. I think he meant what should he have said instead of "you people"; I can understand the offense, as that phrase is often (usually?) used as a derogatory rather than neutral collective. Offhand, I can't think of any situation where "you people" -- meant neutrally -- couldn't be simply "you" (where it's understood to be a collective "you") or "you guys". SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >>> I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > As an English British (UK) speaker, I agree. I would take "People like you" > is an implied insult. People like you take offense when none is intended. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com >>>> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >>>> I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > People like you take offense when none is intended. Good illustration and often true. Although, I do still find the expression a little offensive (and emotive) - although I'm confident no offense was intended. I was thinking about different examples of its use, and can think of lots where its just used as a simple statement of fact (like in your statement), but even so I still wouldn't like it when applied to me. I think because there are too many negative examples of its use that the phrase has become tained, and perhaps because of this it tends to elicit an emotional response. This (that the expression is tained) seems to be generally the case in the UK, but I expect it isn't necessarily true elsewhere. I'd suggest avoiding use of the expression unless you are confident that the recipients won't take offense. SignatureBrian Cryer www.cryer.co.uk/brian >> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >> I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think he was. It's an implied insult. Whatever you thought that > caller and the other people have in common, it's not favorable. I disagree; there's no insult implied. What the caller had in common with other callers was that they were looking for "that guy". SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com >>> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >>> I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I disagree; there's no insult implied. What the caller had in common >with other callers was that they were looking for "that guy". There may not have been an insult *intended*, but there was an insult *implied*. How can you argue with this? The person obviously took it as an insult. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida On 03 Jul 2009, tony cooper wrote >>>> The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got >>>> upset, when I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > There may not have been an insult *intended*, but there was an > insult *implied*. Indeed, and it's the coupling of "people" with "like you" that's insulting: an inoffensive phrasing can still use the phrase, if it's split up: "I've been getting calls from other people looking, like you, for that guy." "I've been getting calls from other people who, like you, were looking for that guy." SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > The thread "Like Joe" reminded me of how one person got upset, when >I told him on the phone, that "I've been getting calls from people like [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >anymore. We've been getting calls from people like you, looking for him, >but I have no idea where he might be.". It wouldn't offend me if someone said it to me -- I wouldn't ask how do you know unless I was joking. But if I were in your shoes I probably wouldn't have said it. My choice of words and sentences seems more limited than it used to be, and now i'm even more likely to say, calls from people who, like you, are looking for him. Decades ago I told a girl, "He's the sort of person who would do [something]" And she got annoyed. And what is the other sort of person? she asked. "The sort of person who wouldn't do it", I replied. She didn't like "the sort of person", like I had some categorization in mind. I don't see how race or religion or any famous categorization could have played a role here, so I really don't know what she meant. For me it was just a figure of speech. I would have said, He is a person who would do that, but that's pretty wordy for no benifit. That leaves, He would do that. But that's not the figure of speech I grew up with. You know I don't know what she thought, but my explanation didnt' really seem to satisfy her. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years |
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