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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009Alma Mater
Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that happen? Or are all three sites, about the same high school, wrong? > Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that > happen? Or are all three sites, about the same high school, wrong? Some context is missing (a website?), but I venture to say that, like me, you think of "alma mater" as the school, rather than the song. It may be that with some kids, they hear the song, and never look up the words to see how they relate to the school. >> Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that >> happen? Or are all three sites, about the same high school, wrong? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >may be that with some kids, they hear the song, and never look up the >words to see how they relate to the school. I should have included the webpage. Lucky for me, I can still remember what it was about. Maybe my memory's not fading so much after all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_High_School_(Independence,_Ohio) The whole line is part of the url and you can probably just click on it. but the left paren keeps my software from underlining past School. As you can see from the name, the whole page is about the school, and at the bottom of the page is a section titled Alma Mater, totally devoted to the song. There are at least three other pages like this, including a page for the class of '75, which was updated for their 2008 reunion, written I presume by people in their 40's who grew up in the 70's. It now features two classmates who married when they were 50. http://www.freewebs.com/independenceclassof75/ It shows the yearbook, the class ring, the mascot, and the alma mater. They clearly think alma mater means the class song. I found more when I googled the words to the song, but I'll admit, they probably all have the same source, the schools own webpage. I haven't looked elsewhere. It's a hot shot school where almost everyone graduates. It has a small student body and 11.5:1 student:teacher ratio, 85% of the faculty have more than a bachelor's degree. In a small suburb south of Cleveland. "The labs are well equipped, new, up to date computers are available in every classroom with three available computer labs and a library with eleven computers and are all linked to a database and technology is routinely integrated into all academic disciplines. IHS offers 13 honors classes ...IHS offers seven Advanced Placement (AP) courses:..." The ski club takes weekly ski trips. Gymnasium built to collegiate basketball specifications. Computer plug-in ports int he lecture hall. Etc. This is a public school, but it's as fancy as they get, or at least the write-up makes it sound that way. They ought to recognize a mistake when they see it.  SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >>> Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that >>> happen? Or are all three sites, about the same high school, wrong? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_High_School_(Independence,_Ohio) OK. When you have trouble with posting long URLs, you might consider Tinyurl.com. There are some other abbreviators of URLs. I don't think you have to register for any of them. I keep the TinyUrl link right next to Google in My favorites. I usually put parens around the the true lin, and then put the TinyURL link in a separate line with an empty line fore and aft. It does seem that they are using the "alma mater" song in a very elliptical fashion, so perhaps they don't equate the term with the school. But there you are. Young stuff. > The whole line is part of the url and you can probably just click on > it. but the left paren keeps my software from underlining past > School. That is the Cornell "alma mater" song, also called "Amici". My college used it, as well. "High above (something or other. . .the Mississippi bluffs or something) waves maroon and gray. I have never gone to a class reunion, or I might recall the lyrics. Oh, my. 50 years gone down the drain. And I think they are actually celebrating a centennial of sorts. I won't go to that, either. Tune: "Far Above Cayuga's Waters" Click on link to see where our alma mater originated. Far above Cuyahoga's waters, Where we're honor bound, Stands our noble Alma Mater, May her name resound. Sing her praises never ceasing, Raise our voices high, Thee we honor, Alma Mater, Independence High. > That is the Cornell "alma mater" song, also called "Amici". My college > used it, as well. "High above (something or other. . .the Mississippi [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thee we honor, Alma Mater, > Independence High. Variants sung at Pat O'Brien's in New Orleans back in the 1950s: Far above the Mississippi Plainly seen on view Stands an old, abandoned outhouse Known as LSU. Or: ...Tulane U Or: River Charles and Harvard U. etc. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> That is the Cornell "alma mater" song, also called "Amici". My >> college [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> centennial >> of sorts. I won't go to that, either. The Cuyahoga lyrics and mention of Cayuga" waters were posted by mm, I think. I didn't notice the lack of a chevron, and didn't separate our posts. I posted the above. mm:>> Tune: "Far Above Cayuga's Waters" Click on link to see where our alma >> mater originated. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > etc. John, it is amazing how many schools have chosen Amici as "their" song. My school was Wisconsin State College at the time I graduated (1958), but it soon became La Crosse State University (which we shortened it to LSU for a while), but has for some time been University of Wisconsin--La Crosse. The centennial is for the institution itself, having been founded in the early years of the last century as a "normal school". >>> Far above Cuyahoga's waters, >>> Where we're honor bound, I thought that, despite the spelling, the name of the river was pronounced Cayuga. What am I thinking of? SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >>>> Far above Cuyahoga's waters, >>>> Where we're honor bound, > > I thought that, despite the spelling, the name of the river was > pronounced Cayuga. What am I thinking of? Well, you seem familiar with Ohio, so I don't challenge the pronunciation of Cuyahoga. I have never heard it pronounced, near as I can recall. Oh, I think I have heard it spoken, now that I rethink it. I have heard it pronounced like "kye-a-HO-ga"(secondary stress on first syllable) as in Cuyahoga Falls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Above_Cayuga's_Waters Cornell is in NY state, and usually the song refers to a lake, though there may be a river involved there, somehow. >>>>> Far above Cuyahoga's waters, >>>>> Where we're honor bound, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Well, you seem familiar with Ohio, so I don't challenge the >pronunciation of Cuyahoga. I have never heard it pronounced, near as I I've been there a lot, but no one said the word when I was there. I'm thinking of the radio 50 years ago, probably singing this very song. >can recall. Oh, I think I have heard it spoken, now that I rethink it. >I have heard it pronounced like "kye-a-HO-ga"(secondary stress on first >syllable) as in Cuyahoga Falls. NPR did a piece about the river's pollution and how clean it is now, 40 years later, and they got a lot of letters complaining about the pronounciation of the name. And then they asked other people and a lot say kye-a-HOE-ga and the rest it seemed said kye-a-HOG-a. Like the pig. But no one said ca-you-ga, but I have several distinct memories that it was pronounced very different from how it was spelled, and with one fewer syllables. >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Above_Cayuga's_Waters > >Cornell is in NY state, and usually the song refers to a lake, though >there may be a river involved there, somehow. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >>>>> Far above Cuyahoga's waters, >>>>> Where we're honor bound, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Cornell is in NY state, and usually the song refers to a lake, though > there may be a river involved there, somehow. It's the lake. One of New York State's "finger lakes". SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com > I thought that, despite the spelling, the name of the river was > pronounced Cayuga. What am I thinking of? Maybe you're thinking of the Shawangunk Mountains, variously pronounced as shaWANgunk, SHAWngunk, SHAWNgump, and SHAWNgum. ¬R >> I thought that, despite the spelling, the name of the river was >> pronounced Cayuga. What am I thinking of? > >Maybe you're thinking of the Shawangunk Mountains, variously pronounced >as shaWANgunk, SHAWngunk, SHAWNgump, and SHAWNgum. ... no, that's not it. It doesn't ring a bell and I still remember "Far above Cayuga's waters". Thanks for the suggestion. I think I should find an old age home in Cleveland and call them up and talk to anyone who will talk to me and ask him. >¬R SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that > happen? 1710, according to etymonline.com. A Wikipedia author claims this use comes from the opening line of the last verse of "Gaudeamus igitur." ¬R >> Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that >> happen? > >1710, according to etymonline.com. A Wikipedia author claims this use >comes from the opening line of the last verse of "Gaudeamus igitur." Well I still know the first verse in Latin by heart. (Who do I think I am, some wealthy preppy from the north east or England? But yet I know it.) Well I found a page with 7 verses and no reference to alma mater. http://www.newfoundations.com/Gaudeamus.html But the Wikipedia entry has 10 verses including this last one Alma Mater floreat, Quae nos educavit; Caros et commilitones, Dissitas in regiones Sparsos, congregavit May our Alma Mater thrive, Which has educated us; Friends and colleagues, where'er they are, Whether near or from afar, Heed her invitation. Plainly, alma mater means school there too, not song. Maybe he meant that was the origin of the phrase. I can believe that. >¬R SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I have lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 10 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > <NotR@bestweb.net> wrote: > >1710, according to etymonline.com. A Wikipedia author claims this use > >comes from the opening line of the last verse of "Gaudeamus igitur." > Well I still know the first verse in Latin by heart. Maybe you've seen "The Student Prince" a few times too many. > Plainly, alma mater means school there too, not song. > Maybe he meant that was the origin of the phrase. No, he meant that the opening of the final verse was taken as a title for the song, and more generally as the title of any school song, many of which also use the phrase in their first lines. The origin of the phrase is clearly identified elsewhere in the article: the motto of the University of Bologna, founded A.D. 1088. ¬R On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:36:33 -0400, I wrote: >The origin of the >phrase is clearly identified elsewhere in the article: the motto of the >University of Bologna, founded A.D. 1088. I should have said "clearly (if spuriously)." The phrase is far older, and its use to refer to a university is much newer. Earlier, I wrote: >> >1710, according to etymonline.com. But I seem to have misread something here the first time. That's in reference to a university, not its song. Another reference places the origin of *that* use some decades earlier at Harvard: http://www.answers.com/topic/alumnus-and-alma-mater America in So Many Words: Words That Have Shaped America by Allan Metcalf and David K. Barnhart As to the use for school songs, the Encyclopedia of Music in Canada http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=U1ARTU0000759 says this is a North American innovation, and points to college songbooks "around the turn of the 20th century" in Canada modeled after books from Yale and Harvard in the mid-19th century. http://users.bestweb.net/~notr "The notion of objecting to a fake Web ¬R site on the grounds that it might possibly incite other people to do bad things is so dangerous to our constitutionally protected freedoms that it must never be mentioned, even in jest." --Matt McIrvin >> Alma Mater Seems to be used to mean school song. When did that >> happen? > > 1710, according to etymonline.com. A Wikipedia author claims this use > comes from the opening line of the last verse of "Gaudeamus igitur." Not any more. I deleted that. SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com |
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