Experimental spelling methods 1960

Experimental spelling methods 1960 - 1970

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A Steele - 27 Jun 2009 16:23 GMT

Hi

When I started primary school in Scotland during the early 1970's I
was amongst the last year that was subject to a new spelling method.
It used phonetic characters e.g. æ to represent the spoken sound.

Come the second year I had to unlearn all that I had already leanrt.

Would someone please tell me what the name of this programme/language
was? My google skills seem to be failing me on this one!

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Martin Crossley - 27 Jun 2009 16:43 GMT

> Hi
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Would someone please tell me what the name of this programme/language
> was? My google skills seem to be failing me on this one!

ITA

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A Steele - 27 Jun 2009 23:43 GMT

On 27 June, 16:43, "Martin Crossley"
<Mar...@g8uwm.NOSPAMabelgratis.net> wrote:

> > Hi
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> ITA

That does indeed look like the very thing.

Thank you.

Andrew

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Martin Crossley - 28 Jun 2009 03:04 GMT

> On 27 June, 16:43, "Martin Crossley"
> <Mar...@g8uwm.NOSPAMabelgratis.net> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Andrew

Vague memories of it...
I learnt it (born late1962) then we changed over to ordinary spelling
("TO",whatever that stood for) after year or two.
I found learning French and German at secondary school easy (I'd moved and
the others had never learnt ITA), and wonder if having had to change helped.
Martin.

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Athel Cornish-Bowden - 28 Jun 2009 11:01 GMT

>> Hi
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> ITA

= "Initial teaching alphabet"

You can here what it looks like at http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ita.htm

I was never taught by this method (too old), but I knew about it.
Looking at it now I'm surprised to see that the example the OP gave, æ,
represents not the sound it is used for in the International Phonetic
Alphabet but the first vowel in "angel". It was invented by Sir James
Pitman, who also invented the form of shorthand commonly used in the UK.

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athel

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A Steele - 28 Jun 2009 15:26 GMT

On 28 June, 11:01, Athel Cornish-Bowden <acorn...@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr>
wrote:

> ITA
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> --
> athel

I think I was amongst the last year taught this, 1974. Looking at it
now it mostly makes sense.

To my west coast Scot, with a liberal sprinkling of BBC and a touch of
east coast Scots ear most of it fits.

A few do not

From the url you quoted <url>http://www.omniglot.com/writing/
ita.htm<url>

First off, apologies, I cannot find the rest of the symbols on charmap

I cannot hear the difference between moon and book
Is garage where you get your car fixed (hardish g) or where you park
you car (a kind of j sound)?

I suppose that and that I also pronounce earth and thirty with a 'u'
sound just highlight a one of the flaws with this idea, that no two
people have the same two ear.

My English and spelling are both abysmal, truly dire. If it looks
wrong then look it up in the dictionary, more likely to remember it
for next time.

Andrew

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Patok - 29 Jun 2009 01:27 GMT

>> "Martin Crossley <Mar...@g8uwm.NOSPAMabelgratis.net> said:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> I cannot hear the difference between moon and book

Interesting. Which of the two do you use for the two? (Listen to
them on www.merriam-webster.com) To my delight, I pronounce (or try to)
these two exactly per the M-W pronunciation. :)

> Is garage where you get your car fixed (hardish g) or where you park
> you car (a kind of j sound)?

Thanks for this interesting information! I was not aware that
'garage' has two possible pronunciations in English. I knew only the
international pronunciation, which is the first example pronunciation on
the M-W sound examples, the one with the soft 'zh'.
As to your question - I'm not aware of the two pronunciations being
used for the different concepts. Maybe that's a regional thing where you
are?

Signature

You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

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A Steele - 29 Jun 2009 03:20 GMT

> > I cannot hear the difference between moon and book
>
> Interesting. Which of the two do you use for the two? (Listen to
> them onwww.merriam-webster.com) To my delight, I pronounce (or try to)
> these two exactly per the M-W pronunciation. :)

To try and pick a description is possibly impossible :)

book look rook took fluke nuke, all are the same. While moon is longer
the length is on the 'n' not the 'oo'

> > Is garage where you get your car fixed (hardish g) or where you park
> > you car (a kind of j sound)?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> used for the different concepts. Maybe that's a regional thing where you
> are?

Guessing it is a similar thing to envelope/enveloped, the former is a
french word, the later an english word, they are pronounced completely
differently.

I hated this stuff at school, now it is fascinating to me. I have 25
years of catching up to do/undo...

Thank you for making me think more about this

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Cece - 30 Jun 2009 18:24 GMT

> > > I cannot hear the difference between moon and book
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Thank you for making me think more about this

An American's comments:

"Garage" has only one pronunciation, whether it is noun or verb,
whether it means the place where a car can be worked on or where a car
can be left safely under cover The beginning letter is a hard g; the
second letter is not a soft g (which is pronounced like "j") but is
pronounced like "zh" (the same sound as in "pleasure."

/'En vE lop/ and /En 'vEl op/ are typical of English differentiation
between noun and verb that have the same phonemes in the same order,
using a change in accenting of syllables to show the difference.

"book look rook took fluke nuke" do not have the same vowel!

"book look rook took" use /U/.
"luke nuke moon" all use /u/

Personally, I think a child should be taught to read the language as
it is normally written. ITA can do nothing but confuse, the way the
Amerian whatever-it-was-called did in the mid-60s. Once the child has
learned how to read (not memorizing every single word he's expected to
encounter, but actually how to read), he should have a dictionary
available; the dictionary must include pronunciations.

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Athel Cornish-Bowden - 30 Jun 2009 18:40 GMT

> [ ... ]

> An American's comments:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> second letter is not a soft g (which is pronounced like "j") but is
> pronounced like "zh" (the same sound as in "pleasure."

OK, so far as the consonants are concerned, but AmE and BrE differ as
to how the vowels are pronounced. In AmE the first a is a schwa, but in
BrE it is the a of cat. In RP BrE both syllables are fully enunciated,
with very little difference in stress, but in AmE there is a heavy
stress on the second syllable. (In non-RP BrE the second syllable is
often -idge, and carries little stress.) In other words, Americans
pronounce it the way they think the French word is pronounced, and
educted BrE speakers pronounce it the way _they_ think the French word
is pronounced (both of them being wrong).

Signature

athel

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Chris R - 01 Jul 2009 09:15 GMT

>>>> Is garage where you get your car fixed (hardish g) or where you
>>>> park you car (a kind of j sound)?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> second letter is not a soft g (which is pronounced like "j") but is
> pronounced like "zh" (the same sound as in "pleasure."

I know of at least three, though not meaning-dependent. AmE guh-RA-zhe; BrE
GA-ra-zhe; and in many British regional accents GA-ridge.

Chris R

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Pat Durkin - 01 Jul 2009 13:47 GMT

>>>>> Is garage where you get your car fixed (hardish g) or where you
>>>>> park you car (a kind of j sound)?
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> guh-RA-zhe; BrE GA-ra-zhe; and in many British regional accents
> GA-ridge.

Cece's response doesn't carry allowance for regional or class
variations in pronunciation. I say it as she describes it, (maybe with
"ger" on the first syllable) but I often hear the "-ge" as a "-dge", and
a pronunciation of the word in one syllable (eliding the first "a"). In
other words--grazh, gradge, and grudge.

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Pat Durkin
durkinpa at msn.com
Wisconsin

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Frederick Williams - 29 Jun 2009 10:20 GMT

> >> Hi
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> [...]. It was invented by Sir James
> Pitman, who also invented the form of shorthand commonly used in the UK.

Nah... Sir James was Sir Isaac's grandson.

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Which of the seven heavens / Was responsible her smile /
Wouldn't be sure but attested / That, whoever it was, a god /
Worth kneeling-to for a while / Had tabernacled and rested.

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David Kaye - 30 Jun 2009 23:12 GMT

On Jun 27, 8:43 am, "Martin Crossley"
<Mar...@g8uwm.NOSPAMabelgratis.net> wrote:

> ITA

As I understand it, ITA stood for Initial Teaching Alphabet, which was
a simpler subset of IPA, the International Phonetic Alphabet. IPA
teaches people how to pronounce words based on the physical placement
of their lips, tongue, throat closure, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_Teaching_Alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009

Experimental spelling methods 1960 - 1970