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Discussion Groups / English Usage / July 2009Thelonious LaBeouf
Your names look WRONG! Apparently the actor Shia LaBeouf's family name is genuine, but it keeps niggling at me that it should be LeBoeuf... And the O in Thelonious (Monk) doesn't seem right either, but his father was a Thelonious too. Any other examples spring to mind?  Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump MC filted: >Your names look WRONG! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Any other examples spring to mind? Oprah (supposed to have been "Orpah") Winfrey....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > MC filted: > > > >Your names look WRONG! > > > >Apparently the actor Shia LaBeouf's family name is genuine, but it keeps > >niggling at me that it should be LeBoeuf... An awful lot of family names got buggered up by the immigration officers at Ellis Island and elsewhere in North America. <SNIP> > >Any other examples spring to mind? > > Oprah (supposed to have been "Orpah") Winfrey....r I have to say they *both* look wrong to me, but I went to a site called behindthename.com and sure enough, there is an Orpah listed: ORPAH Gender: Feminine Usage: Biblical Other Scripts: ’½Ëƒ”½Œ (Hebrew) Pronounced: OR-pY (English) [key] Means "back of the neck" in Hebrew. Orpah was Naomi's second daughter-in-law in the Book of Ruth in the Old Testament. Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump MC wrote, in <copespaz-5D1B17.16403827062009@news.eternal-september.org> on Sat, 27 Jun 2009 16:40:38 -0400: > > MC filted: > > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Means "back of the neck" in Hebrew. Orpah was Naomi's second > daughter-in-law in the Book of Ruth in the Old Testament. Why does the expression "pain in the neck" come instantly to mind? SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > MC filted: >> Your names look WRONG! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Oprah (supposed to have been "Orpah") Winfrey....r Huh? Oprah is "Harpo" spelled backwards. How can anyone say it was "supposed to have been" otherwise? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com Marshall Price filted: >> MC filted: >>> Your names look WRONG! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Huh? Oprah is "Harpo" spelled backwards. How can anyone say it was >"supposed to have been" otherwise? Ms Winfrey herself has explained that the intent was to name her after Orpah, a woman mentioned in the Book of Ruth, but someone reversed the letters.... Interestingly, my newsreader's spell-check is highlighting "Orpah" (and "Harpo") as probable errors, but not "Oprah"...(it's also complaining about "Thelonious", "Shia" and both spellings of "LaBeouf")...entering "orpah" into Google's search window offers "did you mean oprah?", but entering "oprah" yields no equivalent suggestion....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Marshall Price filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > after Orpah, a woman mentioned in the Book of Ruth, but someone > reversed the letters.... According to Miss W, she *was* named after Orpah but, despite getting the name right on her birth cert, members of her family invariably pronounced it 'Oprah' and that was what stuck: http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/win0int-1 Her production company *is* called Harpo which is for 'Oprah' spelt backwards. Orpah was daughter-in-law to Naomi, sister-in-law to Ruth. When Naomi tried to send her widowed ds-i-l back to Moab, you recollect Ruth was all, like, "Whither thou goest" and sh.t but Orpah was all, like, "Laters". SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > Orpah was daughter-in-law to Naomi, sister-in-law to Ruth. When Naomi tried > to send her widowed ds-i-l back to Moab, you recollect Ruth was all, like, > "Whither thou goest" and sh.t but Orpah was all, like, "Laters". Yeah. That Ruth was, like, sooo clingy, Stalkersville! -- WH > Marshall Price filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Orpah, a > woman mentioned in the Book of Ruth, but someone reversed the letters.... Ms Winfrey sho'd thank whomever misspelt her name because Orpah sounds dreadful. > Marshall Price filted: >>> MC filted: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > window offers "did you mean oprah?", but entering "oprah" yields no equivalent > suggestion....r I'm not making it up (the Harpo Marx origin), but I forget where I heard it. Probably in a Charlie Rose interview. Do you have any reference for the "Orpah" origin? SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com Marshall Price filted: >> Marshall Price filted: >>> Huh? Oprah is "Harpo" spelled backwards. How can anyone say it was >>> "supposed to have been" otherwise? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Do you have any reference for the "Orpah" origin? Sorry, but no...maybe she's one of those people who tells different stories to every person who asks her about it, like when you ask Leon Redbone his year and place of birth....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Your names look WRONG! > Apparently the actor Shia LaBeouf's family name is genuine, but it > keeps niggling at me that it should be LeBoeuf... What you don't learn watching _Jeopardy_. I have always pronounced that actor's name to myself as "Sheea Laboof", but Alex says "Shy-a Lebuff", and no doubt he is right. I learned on yesterday's <show> that the Welsh for "Prince of Wales" is "Twysog Cymru". The word for "prince" looks like a cognate of the title of the Irish Prime Minister, "Taoiseach", usually translated literally as "chieftain". > And the O in Thelonious (Monk) doesn't seem right either, but his > father was a Thelonious too. > Any other examples spring to mind? "Formerly known as 'Prince'". http://blogs.eveningsun.com/sportingword/artist%20formerly%20known%20as%20prince.jpg C.D. Bellemare: > What you don't learn watching _Jeopardy_. How to punctuate the title, apparently. :-) > I have always pronounced that actor's name to myself as "Sheea > Laboof", but Alex says "Shy-a Lebuff", and no doubt he is right... On the other hand, he usually corrects mispronunciations by the players, yet recently when one of them pronounced J.W. Rowling to rhyme with "howling" instead of "bowling", he let it pass without comment. Googling j-archive.org, it appears that that would have been either on the regular episode on April 7 or the teen-tournament episode on May 14. Both questions, incidentally, referred to her earnings: [Context: jocular predictions about 2027] This author returns with "Harry Potter and the Nagging Back Injury", because why not make another billion? In 2007 Forbes estimated her earnings at $1 billion; Author! Author! SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | I still remember the first time his reality check msb@vex.net | bounced. -- Darlene Richards My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader filted: >C.D. Bellemare: >> What you don't learn watching _Jeopardy_. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >to rhyme with "howling" instead of "bowling", he let it pass >without comment. He never blinks when someone massacres the pronunciation of the word "karaoke"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > C.D. Bellemare: >> What you don't learn watching _Jeopardy_. > How to punctuate the title, apparently. :-) I don't find the show all that exciting, TBBH. More like "Jeopardy...", really. >> I have always pronounced that actor's name to myself as "Sheea >> Laboof", but Alex says "Shy-a Lebuff", and no doubt he is right... > On the other hand, he usually corrects mispronunciations by the > players, yet recently when one of them pronounced J.W. Rowling > to rhyme with "howling" instead of "bowling", he let it pass > without comment. He would probably correct the "W", though. > Googling j-archive.org, it appears that that would have been > either on the regular episode on April 7 or the teen-tournament > episode on May 14. Both questions, incidentally, referred to > her earnings: > [Context: jocular predictions about 2027] > This author returns with "Harry Potter and the Nagging > Back Injury", because why not make another billion? > In 2007 Forbes estimated her earnings at $1 billion; > Author! Author! Easy enough to remember that pronunciation. Who's JK when she's in her money-bin, and what's she doing there? Mark Brader: > > On the other hand, he usually corrects mispronunciations by the > > players, yet recently when one of them pronounced J.W. Rowling > > to rhyme with "howling" ... C.D. Bellemare: > He would probably correct the "W", though. , Touche! SignatureMark Brader | "This was followed by a vocal response which Toronto | would now be reserved for kicking a ball in a net." msb@vex.net | --Derrick Beckett > > Any other examples spring to mind? > > "Formerly known as 'Prince'". Formerly known as Twysog, no? Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump >>> Any other examples spring to mind? >> "Formerly known as 'Prince'". > Formerly known as Twysog, no? Not this one. And that one's Mum seems determined that he will be Twysog for a while yet. Quoth "CDB" <bellemarec@sympatico.ca>, and I quote: >>>> Any other examples spring to mind? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Not this one. And that one's Mum seems determined that he will be >Twysog for a while yet. That's Tywysog. Irish Taoiseach. SignatureJames > >Not this one. And that one's Mum seems determined that he will be > >Twysog for a while yet. > > That's Tywysog. > > Irish Taoiseach. I hate it when I get my tywysogs in a twist. Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump > Quoth "CDB" <bellemarec@sympatico.ca>, and I quote: >>>>> Any other examples spring to mind? >>>> "Formerly known as 'Prince'". >>> Formerly known as Twysog, no? >> Not this one. And that one's Mum seems determined that he will be >> Twysog for a while yet. > That's Tywysog. So it is. Apologies for the ffelonious Welsh. > Irish Taoiseach. I knew that. > Your names look WRONG! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Any other examples spring to mind? My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of them a celebrity, however. SignatureOdysseus > > Your names look WRONG! > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of > them a celebrity, however. I've seen Micheal frequently and assumed it to be a variant... but Kieth, never... Signature"Fiction writing is great. You can make up almost anything." - Ivana Trump > In article <copespaz-52A71F.13333627062...@news.eternal-september.org>, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And the O in Thelonious (Monk) doesn't seem right either, but his father > > was a Thelonious too. I'm not sure "Thelonius" would exactly seem right, either. The name is made up to start with, right? > > Any other examples spring to mind? > > My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of > them a celebrity, however. There's Isiah Thomas (Isiah Lord Thomas III, says Wikipedia), the basketball coach and former outstanding player. Variant spellings are popular among African Americans, but things like "Antwahn" don't really look like mistakes. Students I've known at the community colleges I teach at have included Antionette, Issac, Chassety, and the surname Mathew (which is the one that gave me the most trouble). Seems to me there was a Micheal, too, and I think I'm forgetting others. Then there's Chrystal, Krystle, etc. -- Jerry Friedman >I'm not sure "Thelonius" would exactly seem right, either. The name >is made up to start with, right? I always thought it was the "u" that looked wrong, since the "th" sound marks it as pseudo-Greek rather than quasi-Latin. ¬R The anti-suffragists will continue to be eligible, won't they? http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/engel.html --Ida Husted Harper > >I'm not sure "Thelonius" would exactly seem right, either. The name > >is made up to start with, right? > > I always thought it was the "u" that looked wrong, since the "th" sound > marks it as pseudo-Greek rather than quasi-Latin. A bit of Googling shows that the name Thelonius comes from an obscure saint who is listed as St. Tillo of Solignac but was also called a bunch of other things, including Hillonius in German. The extra "o" is considered to be a variation. As to whether Thelonius was much used as a name... Google Books mentions, from various eras, a Thelonius Cunradus, and "Thelonius a Braganca, titular Bishop of York." It's also used as a Latin word, such as: "Thelonius rome regnavit dives valde in cujus imperio." And "Aldred thelonius consensi." I can't puzzle that out. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of > them a celebrity, however. Are "Tamsin" and "Tasmin" varients of each other in this way? SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu Nick filted: >> My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of >> them a celebrity, however. > >Are "Tamsin" and "Tasmin" varients of each other in this way? The same way as "Kristen" and "Kirsten"?... My brother's name is officially "Micael"; whoever filled out the birth certificate (in 1961) didn't use a spell checker....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Odysseus set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> Your names look WRONG! >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > My acquaintances have included a "Kieth" and a "Micheal" -- neither of > them a celebrity, however. Among my CD collection is a disc of the John Field piano sonatas played by Míceál O'Rourke - with a dot over the c (following the Gaelic script rendering) instead of the spelling ch (as usually used when Gaelic is written in Roman letters). Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Your names look WRONG! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Any other examples spring to mind? You mean the second O? ("Thelonius"?) The first O bears the accent; I don't understand how it cannot "seem right"; what else could it be? I always suspected it came from the word "felonious". SignatureMarshall Price of Miami marshallprice@att.net http://marshallprice.wordpress.com |
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