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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010for example
Hello - In the following sentence, can anyone please teach me what does "for example" function? Does it serve to tell how firm the US corporate earnings are? It seems not to me, judging from context, that's why I am confused. With great thanks. Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, for example, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. Kevin Kevin <parogon@gmail.com> wrote in news:03c1c7b6-cd47-476a-92ed- 7577d2035c1f@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: > In the following sentence, can anyone please teach me what does "for > example" function? Does it serve to tell how firm the US corporate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are > buying back their own shares or raising dividends. You're right, Kevin: it doesn't serve to tell how firm the US corporate earnings are. It's not well written and 'for example' is used wrongly. They are examples of what? In the sentence - He eats fruit: for example, bananas and apples. - bananas and apples are examples of what? They are examples of the fruit he eats. We must be told the category before the examples. 'Capital investment remaining depressed' and 'fewer companies buying back their shares or raising dividends' are examples of what? Without the words 'for example' the meaning is perfectly clear. 'Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends.' If the writer wants to use 'for example' then a category is needed. 'Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, there are reasons for concern. For example capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends.' But really the word 'although' is enough. It does the job on its own. Although something is good, <COMMA> this is bad and this is bad. Although something is bad and something else is bad, <COMMA> this is good and this is good. Peter (UK) 'Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, there are reasons for concern. For example capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends.' ---- Peter, Thanks! Your adding of " there are reasons for concern" is just perfect, and I wonder if the original words which I copied in my first post implies the meaning you elaborated? Kevin On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote > 'Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, there > are reasons for concern. For example capital investment remains [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and I wonder if the original words which I copied in my first > post implies the meaning you elaborated? Do you know what sentence came *before* the one you copied -- or is this an exercise from a work-book that didn't give you that context?  SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Cheers, Harvey > CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed I copied the sentences before and after the ones I had copied. In case you missed my previous post, here I do it again as follows: Another source of concern is the fact that US business executives may not be as sanguine about the outlook as stock prices would suggest. Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, for example, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. In other words, much of corporate cash flow is being used to reduce leverage or to accumulate financial assets, implying either that these businesses continue to have balance sheet problems or that they lack confidence about the future outlook. Kevin On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote >> On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > either that these businesses continue to have balance sheet > problems or that they lack confidence about the future outlook. That explains it, really: the "for example" refers to evidence the writer is offering to support his contention that executives are less confident about the outlook than one would think if one simply looked at stock prices. The sentence you've questioned, though, remains a bit awkward: I think if you move the "for example" to the start of the sentence, the referral to evidence in support of the writer's comment becomes more obvious: (rewrite) Another source of concern is the fact that [evidence suggests that] US business executives may not be as sanguine about the outlook as stock prices would suggest. For example, although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. (/rewrite) Does that help at all? SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > Cheers, Harvey > CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed ------ Yes, it helps after the rewrite. But, could "for example" be moved here and there?, even just a bit awkward. That's what I am interested to know. Kevin On 15 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote >> On 14 Jan 2010, Kevin wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > bit awkward. > That's what I am interested to know. Yes, I think it can -- but not without introducing awkwardness and possible ambiguity. (In other words, not without writing a relatively poor sentence.) Indeed, reconsidering the original, I may have misinterpreted what the writer intended to say. It could have been (again rewriting): (rewrite) ... US business executives may not be as sanguine about the outlook as stock prices would suggest. US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, but capital investment, for example, remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. (/rewrite) In that reading, the examples are limited to the depressed capital investment and following factors, rather than the corporate earnings -- in which case, the original position of "for example" makes sense (but is still, as you can tell, confusing). SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On 14 Jan 2010, Pete wrote > Kevin <parogon@gmail.com> wrote in news:03c1c7b6-cd47-476a-92ed- > 7577d2035c1f@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > corporate earnings are. It's not well written and 'for example' > is used wrongly. They are examples of what? I think that's a bit unfair: it looks less wrongly-used to me than wrenched from its context. If you preface that sentence with something along the lines of "Financial indicators are sending mixed signals about the end of the recession", the "for example" in the sentence makes complete sense. (I'd put it at the front of the sentence, but that's a different issue.) Not all sentences can or should be analysed as stand-alone constructions. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > I think that's a bit unfair: it looks less wrongly-used to me than > wrenched from its context. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Cheers, Harvey > CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed ----------- I agree because the writer is not a sloppy guy. Perhaps let me copy more for your analysis. Kevin Another source of concern is the fact that US business executives may not be as sanguine about the outlook as stock prices would suggest. Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, for example, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. In other words, much of corporate cash flow is being used to reduce leverage or to accumulate financial assets, implying either that these businesses continue to have balance sheet problems or that they lack confidence about the future outlook. > On 14 Jan 2010, Pete wrote > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Not all sentences can or should be analysed as stand-alone > constructions. When I saw it it WAS a stand-alone construction! Peter On 14 Jan 2010, Pete wrote >> On 14 Jan 2010, Pete wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > When I saw it it WAS a stand-alone construction! Fair enough -- I guess I felt we should decline to analyse it as such, as it seemd odds-on to me that there was some context missing somewhere. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On 03:19 14 Jan 2010, HVS wrote: [stored10:30GMT-unchanged] > On 14 Jan 2010, Pete wrote > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Not all sentences can or should be analysed as stand-alone > constructions. I think what you write is a very fair analysis. >Hello - > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are >buying back their own shares or raising dividends. It's a bad sentence. Making the fewest changes possible, it should be something like this: Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm -- for example, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends -- we are still optimistic about the future. No, that's no good either, because those two examples are not examples of earnings being firm. This one has no contradictions: Although US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, there are still major problems. For example, capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. >Kevin SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > >Hello - > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Brooklyn, NY 12 years > Baltimore 26 years The writer is nearly a native speaker of English, that's why I did not question his ability of writing (as writing is also part of his job), so I turned to my own understanding. Kevin > Hello - > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kevin I read it as omitting the words I inserted after the "although" and the parentheses: Although many ecconomic indicators are positive (US corporate earnings have been relatively firm, for example), capital investment remains depressed, and far fewer companies are buying back their own shares or raising dividends. Paul |
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