Another Apostrophe Question

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Pavel314 - 15 Jan 2010 13:34 GMT

While driving to work this morning in Baltimore, I saw the following
on the back window of an SUV:

Little Raven's Fan On Board

In case you don't know, the Ravens are our local football team and
they're in the playoffs this weekend.

This seems wrong. The way it's stated, I read it as "Little Fan of the/
a Raven On Board." Since the name of the team is plural, Ravens,
shouldn't the sign be as follows?

Little Ravens' Fan On Board

As an aside, I hope the Ravens and Vikings meet in the Super Bowl; a
totally purple game!

Paul

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Athel Cornish-Bowden - 15 Jan 2010 13:49 GMT

> While driving to work this morning in Baltimore, I saw the following
> on the back window of an SUV:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Little Ravens' Fan On Board

If you insist on having an apostrophe at all, then yes (making this the
617th time this sort of question has been raised in this group).
However, I'd treat "Little Ravens" as an adjective and omit the
apostrophe altogether.

Names of American sporting teams often seem to be plural in form, but
European teams are more often singular, and no one would write, say, "a
Manchester United's supporter".

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athel

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White Spirit - 15 Jan 2010 14:00 GMT

> While driving to work this morning in Baltimore, I saw the following
> on the back window of an SUV:

> Little Raven's Fan On Board

> In case you don't know, the Ravens are our local football team and
> they're in the playoffs this weekend.

> This seems wrong. The way it's stated, I read it as "Little Fan of the/
> a Raven On Board." Since the name of the team is plural, Ravens,
> shouldn't the sign be as follows?

> Little Ravens' Fan On Board

It's grammatically correct, but not something that is largely common in
English any more because we don't tend to use the genitive/possessive to
denote reference in that manner. As it stands, it implies ownership.
For example, would "Football's fan" sound correct to you or would you
prefer 'Football fan'? (That largely depends upon context. Compare,
for example, an article saying "Iron Maiden's fans can be found all over
the world" with 'I am an Iron Maiden's fan'.)

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mm - 15 Jan 2010 18:47 GMT

>> While driving to work this morning in Baltimore, I saw the following
>> on the back window of an SUV:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>English any more because we don't tend to use the genitive/possessive to
>denote reference in that manner. As it stands, it implies ownership.

Not really. In American English, the possessive is used all over the
place without implying ownership.

I noticed this when I was in 23 and a tourist in Guatamala, in a small
town. I referred, probably in Spanish, to "mi banco", and the
teen-age girl giggled. To her it sounded like I owned the bank, but
in English it is just the bank where I have an account.

>For example, would "Football's fan" sound correct to you or would you
>prefer 'Football fan'? (That largely depends upon context. Compare,
>for example, an article saying "Iron Maiden's fans can be found all over
>the world" with 'I am an Iron Maiden's fan'.)

I don't know her and I can't say. :)

Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore 26 years

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mm - 15 Jan 2010 18:44 GMT

>While driving to work this morning in Baltimore, I saw the following
>on the back window of an SUV:
>
>Little Raven's Fan On Board

I live in Baltimore too, and I know that baby. The sign is correct.
She only likes the left tackle.

>In case you don't know, the Ravens are our local football team and
>they're in the playoffs this weekend.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Paul

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010

Another Apostrophe Question