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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010cancer
If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep busy until I die. Is there any way I can get the tv and radio news from saying that I "battled cancer"?  SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years On 24 Jan 2010, mm wrote > If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep > busy until I die. > > Is there any way I can get the tv and radio news from saying that I > "battled cancer"? Nope. You won't stop people who don't have -- but who deeply fear having -- a condition from projecting what they would like to see onto those who actually *do* have the condition. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >busy until I die. > >Is there any way I can get the tv and radio news from saying that I >"battled cancer"? I can think of only one way to do that, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it. If you kill yourself as soon as the disease is diagnosed the news media will not be able to say that you "battled cancer". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) > If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep > busy until I die. > > Is there any way I can get the tv and radio news from saying that I > "battled cancer"? You have some kind of exaggerated sense of importance to worry that your obituary will be discussed on television reports. Still, since obits scripts are written by someone, presumably those who know about you, you can certainly improve the odds against such language errors by having a designated death reporter who can publicize your self-written obituary notice. Most people who have lost a loved one (or even a despised one), will go together to a funeral director for help with the publication of the newspaper report of your death. Many directors, concerned with the cost of the printing, will encourage brevity. And you can live your life so those who will write about your death will be discreet about the manner of your lingering, and your pain. You can simply express to your dear ones how particular you are about such reports. "Please don't talk about me when I'm gone". SignaturePat Durkin durkinpa at msn.com Wisconsin >> If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >> busy until I die. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >You have some kind of exaggerated sense of importance to worry that >your obituary will be discussed on television reports. I don't use my real name here. It may not be exaggerated at all. What do you think famous people do when they get old and tired? Many of the same things as non-famous people. Believe me, you can only have lunch at Bella Donna's so many times. >Still, since obits scripts are written by someone, presumably those >who know about you, you can certainly improve the odds against such >language errors by having a designated death reporter who can >publicize your self-written obituary notice. That will work for the one my family submits to the local paper, but I'm thinking about tv news shows, which always describe someone as having battled cancer. I don't plan to battle. I'll show up at the doctor's for my appointments, but most of the work will be his. He can cut me, irradiate me, inject me. I plan to just lie there, then go home. I don't want to be accused of battling. For one thing, it would mean that I lost that battle, and so far my battle stats are pretty good. I don't want them lowered when I wasn't even fighting. For another, it misrepresents my sometimes Stoic nature. For another, it's just inaccurate. Few things bother me more than inaccuracy, for me and I'm sure others on the news who are accused of battling cancer, or occasionally some other disease. Yes, this must be what bothers me the most, the degradation of news reporting. I really doubt that any of their sources in many of the reports of battling cancer actually used the word battle or any synonym. The news people throw it in, I think, to make the news more "exciting" and it's wrong to distort what the sources say. I don't want one of my last acts, my last act, dying, to be fodder for their corruption of news reporting into infotainment. >Most people who have lost a loved one (or even a despised one), will >go together to a funeral director for help with the publication of the >newspaper report of your death. Many directors, concerned with the >cost of the printing, will encourage brevity. And you can live your >life so those who will write about your death will be discreet about >the manner of your lingering, and your pain. Neither suffering pain nor taking pain killers is battling. Battling requires actual effort and action on the part of the one afflicted, more than just taking a pill with a little water, or even self-adminstering an injection. Not only don't they require enough effort to rise to the level of battling, they are defensive moves. I also think that defensive moves don't constitute battling. The news just likes the word battle. > You can simply express >to your dear ones how particular you are about such reports. > >"Please don't talk about me when I'm gone". SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > That will work for the one my family submits to the local paper, but > I'm thinking about tv news shows, which always describe someone as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't want to be accused of battling. But I suspect that your immune system will battle the cancer whether you want it to or not, unless you take something to suppress that system. Thus, it would not be inaccurate to say that you battled it. > Yes, this must be what bothers me the most, the degradation of news > reporting. I really doubt that any of their sources in many of the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > want one of my last acts, my last act, dying, to be fodder for their > corruption of news reporting into infotainment. Now I'm with you on that. They apparently feel that they have to make it more dramatic. "The plane slammed into the ground." "The car plunged into the river." If a light plane has engine trouble and lands in a field, they call it a crash landing. If there was no crash, there was no crash landing. I remember a report once that "The Cessna slammed into the airliner". Given their likely speeds, it's much more likely that it was the other way around. It's like reporting that the pedestrian in the crosswalk slammed into the speeding car. Bill in Kentucky >> If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >> busy until I die. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You have some kind of exaggerated sense of importance to worry that > your obituary will be discussed on television reports. I thought that at first, but we only know him or her as mm (though I seem to recall the same post-signature information attached to a more explicit name in the past), so maybe this is a disguised George W. Bush or someone equally famous who has been contributing to aeu all this time. athel >>> If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >>> busy until I die. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >or someone equally famous who has been contributing to aeu all this >time. "mm" used to post as "S/Meirman". I believe the "S" was for "Steve". The sig line is the same for "mm" and "S/Meirman". SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >>>> busy until I die. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>or someone equally famous who has been contributing to aeu all this >>time. There's really so little to do now that I don't have the White House bowling alley so handy anymore. >"mm" used to post as "S/Meirman". I'm impressed. That's right. > I believe the "S" was for "Steve". No, it was supposed to represent the s I think I've seen on lines where one has signed his signature. Someone here claimed it wasn't a signature or it wasn't my name, and I said well if I write it where I'm supposed to sign, it's my name. It's been several years. I don't remember. >The sig line is the same for "mm" and "S/Meirman". Aha, that's how you figured it out. Yes, it is I, but it is also George W. Bush. There was just too much pressure in the Oval Office -- you know Laura wouldnt' even let me take off my tie or jacket there and ties are so uncomfortable -- so I took this little room next to the bowling alley and I had a computer put in there. All I had to do was ask. They were very nice to me there. (Now Laura pesters me to take out the garbage. It's just not the same.) So when the noise of the bowling alley gave me a headache, I would go work on the internets, like I do now. Of course I couldn't use my real name. "mm" stands for Mike Mansfield, the only Democrat I ever had any real respect for. That's my name di ploom. P&M&M&M SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >If I get cancer, and the doctors can't cure it, I plan to just keep >busy until I die. > >Is there any way I can get the tv and radio news from saying that I >"battled cancer"? Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, but it has recently become an 'expression of choice' in the British media. If they HAVE to use it, why can't they do it properly, and say "battled against"? SignatureIan > Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular > buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, > but it has recently become an 'expression of choice' in the British > media. If they HAVE to use it, why can't they do it properly, and say > "battled against"? 'Battle' can take a direct object, and 'battled the elements' sounds ok to me. But I quite agree about 'battled cancer'. Yeah - let's add it. I hope the O.P. IS keeping a list. Peter >> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I hope the O.P. IS keeping a list. In my old-fashioned BrE, "battle" - by itself - is not used a verb. It requires a preposition, such as "against" or "with". On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't like the AmE preposition-less "to battle"! SignatureIan >>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >>> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >In my old-fashioned BrE, "battle" - by itself - is not used a verb. It >requires a preposition, such as "against" or "with". You aren't old-fashioned enough. From the OED: battle, v.1 3. trans. To give battle to, fight against, assail in battle. Also fig. c1399 Pol. Poems (1859) II. 9 Cristes feith is every dal assailed..and batailed. 1590 GREENE Orl. Fur. (1599) 31 To battaile him that scornes to iniure thee. 1765 TUCKER Lt. Nat. I. 39 The work..of battling the opinions of others. >On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb >with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't >like the AmE preposition-less "to battle"! SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >>>> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't >>like the AmE preposition-less "to battle"! Interesting! But, regardless of its impeccable pedigree, I still don't like it. Until its reintroduction via 'catchy media headline' jargon, it had dropped out of use in modern BrE. It's similar to the AmE use of standalone "to protest", which, in BrE, when protesting AGAINST something, definitely requires the addition of "against". Here, I think that the absence of the "against" is plainly wrong - even though I'm sure that there are historical precedents which will prove that the Americans are actually correct! SignatureIan >>>>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but >>>>> popular buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Until its reintroduction via 'catchy media headline' jargon, it had > dropped out of use in modern BrE. I think the reason I don't mind 'battling the elements' is that it's a deliberate archaism: it's mock-heroic. Which is why 'battling the dark forces' also sounds fine to me. But 'Battling the Natiional Assembly' or 'battling the TV company' sound wrong. I agree: its pedigree isn't relevant. There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under the headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her daughter's grave. There's nothing wrong with the word 'vigil', but in that context it's ridiculous. > It's similar to the AmE use of standalone "to protest", which, in BrE, > when protesting AGAINST something, definitely requires the addition of > "against". Here, I think that the absence of the "against" is plainly > wrong - even though I'm sure that there are historical precedents > which will prove that the Americans are actually correct! That one REALLY sets my teeth on edge! Peter >>>>>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but >>>>>> popular buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >forces' also sounds fine to me. But 'Battling the Natiional Assembly' or >'battling the TV company' sound wrong. Ah, yes. I had forgotten those two. >I agree: its pedigree isn't relevant. > >There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under the >headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her daughter's >grave. There's nothing wrong with the word 'vigil', but in that context >it's ridiculous. Without checking, "vigil" usually implies that you are waiting for something to happen. A vigil at a graveside seems a bit optimistic! Surprisingly, there isn't really a verb "to do a vigil", is there? There's "invigilate" (which, for some reason, my spell checker queries) - but that's somewhat different. >> It's similar to the AmE use of standalone "to protest", which, in BrE, >> when protesting AGAINST something, definitely requires the addition of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >That one REALLY sets my teeth on edge! I'm glad I'm not the only one! SignatureIan >>There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under the >>headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her daughter's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Without checking, "vigil" usually implies that you are waiting for >something to happen. A vigil at a graveside seems a bit optimistic! "Vigil", verb and noun, comes from the idea of wakefulness and watching. Think of "vigilant". >Surprisingly, there isn't really a verb "to do a vigil", is there? One can keep (or pehaps stage or perform) a vigil. OED describes the verb "vigil" as rare: intr. To keep a vigil or vigils. 1898 T. HARDY Wessex Poems 110 So I've claim to ask By what right you task My patience by vigiling here? 1915 G. FRANKAU Tid'apa vii. 40 Two days and two nights has he vigiled{em}the doctor dozes and blinks. 1975 J. MONTAGUE Slav Dance 57 We vigil by the dying fire, talk stilled for once. Back to the noun: [a. AF. and OF. (also mod.F.) vigile, = Sp. and It. vigilia:{em}L. vigilia watch, watchfulness, wakefulness, f. vigil awake, alert. Cf. VIGILY.] 1. Eccl. The eve of (i.e. preceding) a festival or holy day, as an occasion of devotional watching or religious observance. b. A devotional watching, esp. the watch kept on the eve of a festival or holy day; a nocturnal service or devotional exercise. Chiefly in pl. c. In the phr. to keep (a) vigil or vigils. Also transf. (Cf. 4b.) d. pl. Prayers said or sung at a nocturnal service, spec. for the dead. Sometimes applied to the Office for the Dead: cf. F. vigiles des morts, and med.L. vigiliæ. 2. A wake. Obs. 3. a. One or other of the four watches into which the Romans divided the night. Obs. 4. An occasion or period of keeping awake for some special reason or purpose; a watch kept during the natural time for sleep. b. In the phr. to keep a vigil or vigils. (Cf. 1c.) c. Without article: Watching, watch. 5. A wakefulness, or period of this, due to inability to sleep. Somewhat rare. 6. attrib. and Comb., as vigil-keeping, -rage, service, -wasted adj. ADDITIONS SERIES 1993 vigil, n.1 Add: [4.] d. A stationary and peaceful demonstration in support of a particular cause, often lasting several days, which is characterized by the absence of speeches or other explicit advocacy of the cause, and freq. by some suggestion of mourning. 1956 Times 11 Apr. 8/6 When [the South African] Parliament reassembled to-day..members found 300 black-sash women lined up in the grounds of Parliament House in renewed protest against undemocratic legislation... A vigil of four black-sash members at a time will be maintained till the end of the session. 1969 [see -IN3]. 1971 Win 1 Apr. 5/1 A three-day vigil from Feb. 23-26 at the New York office of Colonel Charles Ellison, Army procurement agent, focused attention on the fact. 1985 Peace News 26 July 3/1 On the day of the air fair, around 40 people took part in a vigil at the main gate, giving out leaflets to incoming cars. >There's "invigilate" (which, for some reason, my spell checker queries) >- but that's somewhat different. 1. intr. To keep watch; to watch carefully. Now spec. To watch over students at examination. With regard to Jackiey Budden standing by her daughter Jade's grave in "silent vigil" I would say that "vigil" would be appropriate only if she had stood by the grave for a period of hours. Having said that I can't think of a word to substitute for "vigil". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>>There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under >>>the headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her >>>daughter's grave. There's nothing wrong with the word 'vigil', but in >>>that context it's ridiculous. > With regard to Jackiey Budden standing by her daughter Jade's grave in > "silent vigil" I would say that "vigil" would be appropriate only if > she had stood by the grave for a period of hours. It was a bit nippy around Christmas. I expect she just kept her silent vigil long enough for the photographer to get the picture. Peter >>>>There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, >>>>under [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > silent > vigil long enough for the photographer to get the picture. OK. A posed picture may be emblematic of a static and enduring event. Aren't paintings intended for that purpose? >>There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under the >>headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her daughter's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Without checking, "vigil" usually implies that you are waiting for >something to happen. A vigil at a graveside seems a bit optimistic! I hadn't thought about this. Random House is an American dictioanry but this is what it says: noun 1. wakefulness maintained for any reason during the normal hours for sleeping. 2. a watch or a period of watchful attention maintained at night or at other times: The nurse kept her vigil at the bedside of the dying man. Here the nurse is waiting for a sign of distress, where she could offer aid, or death, which I guess they think they have to know about right away. But is this the original usage? 3. a period of wakefulness from inability to sleep. 4. Ecclesiastical. a. a devotional watching, or keeping awake, during the customary hours of sleep. b. Sometimes, vigils. a nocturnal devotional exercise or service, esp. on the eve before a church festival. c. the eve, or day and night, before a church festival, esp. an eve that is a fast. Origin: 120050; ME vigil(i)e < AF < ML vigilia eve of a holy day, special use of L vigilia watchfulness, equiv. to vigil sentry + -ia -y 3 If the origin is about staying up at night on the eve of a (Christian?) holy day, are they waiting for something to happen? What? What are the rules for an eve that is a fast? I had not heard of such a fast, that is, on an eve. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >>>There was a photograph on the front page of the Sun recently, under the >>>headline 'Her silent vigil'. It was Jade's mother at her daughter's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>Without checking, "vigil" usually implies that you are waiting for >>something to happen. A vigil at a graveside seems a bit optimistic! To follow-up: In other words, what's ridiculous about a vigil at a grave? BTW, wasn't there a time, before bodies were buried 6 feet deep, when one had to be concerned about wild animals digging up a grave? AIUI, avoiding that is the purpose of 6 feet. I don't know when graves that deep were first dug, but before then and for a period afterwards, when they still weren't sure how far down one had to go, maybe there was a vigil, by a pre-Latin word, to keep animals away. OTOH, maybe more likely the vigil was for the period before burial. The body of a Jew may not be left alone before burial, and the original reason is to protect it from animals. (A shomer, a watchman, will sit by the body at all times. If the burial is not the same day, all night also. Reading Psalms at least some of the time.) Okay, so maybe that's where vigil originally applied regarding death in the non-Jewish world also, but still, does someone have to be waiting for something in order to meet the definition of a vigil. >I hadn't thought about this. Random House is an American dictioanry >but this is what it says: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >What? What are the rules for an eve that is a fast? I had not >heard of such a fast, that is, on an eve. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > I think the reason I don't mind 'battling the elements' is that it's a > deliberate archaism: it's mock-heroic. Which is why 'battling the dark > forces' also sounds fine to me. But 'Battling the Natiional Assembly' or > 'battling the TV company' sound wrong. I'd just call that hyperbole. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >>>>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >>>>> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >when protesting AGAINST something, definitely requires the addition of >"against". "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." Are you sure "protest" requires "against"? > Here, I think that the absence of the "against" is plainly >wrong - even though I'm sure that there are historical precedents which >will prove that the Americans are actually correct! SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >>It's similar to the AmE use of standalone "to protest", which, in BrE, >>when protesting AGAINST something, definitely requires the addition of >>"against". > >"Methinks the lady doth protest too much." Are you sure "protest" >requires "against"? Of course it doesn't. The lady is not protesting AGAINST 'too much'. She is simply protesting. Actually, in this slightly misquoted sentence, she is not actually protesting against anything. <http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:fQ3LIaynSQQJ:www.enotes.com/shakespea re-quotes/lady-doth-protest-too-much-methinks+methinks+the+lady+doth+prot est+too+much+wiki&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk> In fact, she is doing exactly the opposite - she is actually speaking 'for and in favour of', or 'affirming' something. This is the original BrE meaning of "to protest", when it is used alone (without the "against"). A common usage is "to protest your innocence", which certainly does not mean "to protest AGAINST your innocence". This is why the AmE usage sounds so wrong! SignatureIan > On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb > with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't > like the AmE preposition-less "to battle"! 1. They fought all day. 2. They battled all day. I have no problem with either of those. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb >> with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I have no problem with either of those. Yes, but neither have an object. SignatureIan > >> On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb > >> with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > Yes, but neither have an object. 1. They fought the enemy all day. 2. They battled the enemy all day. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> >> On the other hand, "fight" can be a noun, a stand-alone verb, or a verb >> >> with preposition. There is absolutely no logic to this. I just don't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >1. They fought the enemy all day. >2. They battled the enemy all day. In BrE, #2 is a trendy American import, only really heard of seen in the 'media'. Apart from the examples of "battling the elements" and "battling the dark forces", adversarial "battling" is (almost?) always followed by an "against". Signatureian >> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Peter I'm not keeping much of a list, but I agree that's an obnoxious but popular buzzword, if not the first decade in the US than some earlier decade. That's another but smaller reason I don't it in my obituary. I would rather my obit said, "He eschewed buzzwords". This would have been my last chance to ever use "eschew", but since I just used it here for the first time, it would be no less than the second, and unimportant for that reason, but still important to show my feeling of superiority to buzzwords. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years On 28 Jan 2010, mm wrote >>> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious >>> but popular buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I would rather my obit said, "He eschewed buzzwords". If people manage to turn "eschew" into a buzzword, though, you're screwed. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 28 Jan 2010, mm wrote > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >If people manage to turn "eschew" into a buzzword, though, you're >screwed. ROTFL. And they might do that too. I'd better rewrite my obit the day before I die. SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years >> On 28 Jan 2010, mm wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > ROTFL. And they might do that too. I'd better rewrite my obit the > day before I die. Eschew obfuscation. Bill in Kentucky >> Can "battled" be added to the list in the thread "Obnoxious but popular >> buzz words of the first decade"? I know it's long-established in AmE, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 'Battle' can take a direct object, and 'battled the elements' sounds ok to > me. To me too. > But I quite agree about 'battled cancer'. Again, me too. I wonder why we react differently to the two phrases? Signatureathel |
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