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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2010Some 'and' sentences
Dear all, I'd like to ask two questions concerning 'and'. First, is the sentence in (1) grammatical, without the use of adverbs like 'too' or 'also'? If it's grammatical, does it mean that John and Marry will marry each other, or that they will marry different people? Or both? (1) John is going to married, and Mary is going to married. The second question is whether the sentence in (2) is grammatical. (2) Both John is going to married and Mary is going to married. Some articles I recently read say that the following 'both...and' sentences in (3) are unacceptable. The generalization (my own observation) seems to be that 'both' cannot precede a full sentence, contra (4). If this is the case, we'd predict that (2) should be unacceptable. I don't have any native intuition, so I need your judgement for me on (2). Thanks. -- Ray (3) a. *Both [John ate rice] and beans. b. *Both [John laughed] and he cried. c. *Both [John ate rice] and Mary ate beans. (4) Both [you] and me are cute. > (2) Both John is going to married and Mary is going to married. This is not something you will hear a native speaker say, however these are: John and Mary are both going to be married. OKBoth John and Mary are going to be married. OK If it's not clear from the context you can add something like: "but not to each other." Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------- Native speaker of U. S. English. Not a grammar expert. RayH: http://www.englishforums.com/user/nlrg/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- >> (2) Both John is going to married and Mary is going to married. >This is not something you will hear a native speaker say, however [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Hope > this helps. If you meant that John was going to marry Mary, you would not use "both". "Both" would mean that "each of them" (or "each one", or "each") was going to marry somebody else. [In this context "both" and "each" are interchangeable.] "John and Mary are going to be married" would normally mean that they were going to marry each other - unless you knew that this was not what was meant. [For example, they might be brother and sister, or you already know that John is 17 years old and Mary is 93!] As RayH says, if the meaning is not clear, you would need to add something like "but not to each other." Note: Beware of confusing "John and Mary are going *each* to be married" with "John and Mary are going to marry *each* other". These sentences have opposite meanings!  SignatureIan >Note: Beware of confusing "John and Mary are going *each* to be >married" with "John and Mary are going to marry *each* other". These >sentences have opposite meanings! Oops! Wrong order of words. "John and Mary are going *each* to be married" should be: "John and Mary are *each* going to be married". SignatureIan Just a follow-up on my original answer. 1. John is going to be/get married, and Mary is going to be/get married. It's not completely clear but my assumption would be that they are not marrying each other. Note also that this is a very awkward sentence. 3a. John ate both rice and beans. 3b. John both laughed and cried.3c. John ate rice and Mary ate beans. "both" cannot be used here.4. Both you and I are cute. OR You and I are both cute. -------------------------------------------------------------- Native speaker of U. S. English. Not a grammar expert. RayH: http://www.englishforums.com/user/nlrg/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- > Dear all, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > (1) John is going to married, and Mary is going to married. "Going to" indicates intent to do something in the future. "Married" is a past event. Therefore, "going to married" makes no sense. "Going to marry" or "going to get married" are normal ways to state the future, and "were married" for the past. "John is going to marry, and Mary is going to marry" is grammatical, but we wouldn't say it that way. If they are going to marry each other, "John and Mary are going to marry" (or, usually, "get married") is normal, and if to others, "John is going to marry, and so is Mary" should convey that. > The second question is whether the sentence in (2) is grammatical. > > (2) Both John is going to married and Mary is going to married. Generally a comma precedes the "and" in a compound sentence (two separate main clauses). > Some articles I recently read say that the following 'both...and' > sentences in (3) are unacceptable. The generalization (my own [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > (3) a. *Both [John ate rice] and beans. This would have to be "John ate both rice and beans". > b. *Both [John laughed] and he cried. "John both laughed and cried." > c. *Both [John ate rice] and Mary ate beans. This is okay. In all three, "both" is unnecessary. > (4) Both [you] and me are cute. "Both you and I are cute" or "Both of us are cute". Bill in Kentucky >> c. *Both [John ate rice] and Mary ate beans. > > This is okay. Surely not. I would leave out 'both' - John ate rice and Mary ate beans - or rewrite it: Both John and Mary ate, but he had rice and she had beans. Peter |
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