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what is the pupil called?

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Kevin - 02 Feb 2010 08:37 GMT
Hello
I wonder if you got a term in English (In Chinese, we call them
"inserting student") that means a student who joins a class in the
middle of a semester, or some months later than his/her classmates
because of age borderline.  For example, a school that receives two-
year old kids for a nursery class, now a girl who is three months
short, if she waits for next year's enrolment, she will be too "old"
then.  Then in some schools, they would let the girl join the class
when she turns 3.  With thanks.
Kevin
Kevin - 02 Feb 2010 08:49 GMT
> Hello
> I wonder if you got a term in English (In Chinese, we call them
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> when she turns 3.  With thanks.
> Kevin

Sorry, a typo, the last sentence should be read as "..when she turns
2".
Kevin
Ian Jackson - 02 Feb 2010 12:23 GMT
In message
<e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df6919fa@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Kevin <parogon@gmail.com> writes
>> Hello
>> I wonder if you got a term in English (In Chinese, we call them
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>2".
>Kevin

I really don't think that there is any BrE word (or words) which
specifically describe this situation. I suppose you could say
"intermediate joiner", "late joiner", "late arrival", "mid-way starter"
- or any combination of these. But I can't think of a 'technical'
description.
Signature

Ian

Kevin - 02 Feb 2010 12:52 GMT
On Feb 2, 8:23 pm, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df691...@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> --
> Ian

Ian - Many thanks.  I think your suggestions work with me.
It's just a very common term in Chinese, and I have no idea what it is
in English, so I asked.
Kevin
Wilstrup - 02 Feb 2010 12:58 GMT
> In message
> <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df6919fa@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Kevin
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> or any combination of these. But I can't think of a 'technical'
> description.

School systems are very different from country to country. It is, therefore,
almost impossible to give a definition to all different situations in
another language. If your school system is based on birthdays in which you
are to start a certain class (which makes newcomers start every day - and
how about summerholidays?), you probably will be short of  words to describe
and define the  situation.

It is the same about political and governmental institutions and parties: In
England you have certain political institutions which have 'funny' names,
e.g. Home office - which in my country (Denmark) is "Ministry of Domestic
Affairs" (it might be understood as well in BrE, but the Home Office might
not be understood in Danish).

In the Northern Countries (i.e. Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and
Finland) the word "pedagogic" is used about educational things as well as
upbringing, but it is not very used in BrE unless you are  a professional
and are working in the field of upbringing and eductation.

You will probably use the word "upbringing" to explain how children are
brought up within the families and "education" when the children are brought
up in institutions like schools. I am, for instance, a master of education",
but my Danish title is "cand.pæd." (equally master of pedagogy, which is
taught at the university).

My point is that there are a lot of situations where it is very difficult to
find a specific word for a specific way of doing things in a foreign
language. The words are invented due to the situations in which they occur.
There is, however, nothing wrong with the question, but the above mentioned
must be considered, I think.

Do you agree?
Kevin - 02 Feb 2010 13:21 GMT
> > In message
> > <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df691...@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Kevin
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Do you agree?

Sure, I do.
I remember I used to work with a trade chamber where the title of a
department head is known as "Secretary".  There was a time when the
Secretary's secretary tried to make an appointment for her boss
attending a function.  When she told the organiser that the attendee
was a Secretary, who was nearly rejected because the event was not
aimed at secretary.  It's funny that the Secretary's secretary had to
explain every time that the Secretary is a fat cat.
Kevin
Bill McCray - 02 Feb 2010 13:51 GMT
> In message
> <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df6919fa@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> - or any combination of these. But I can't think of a 'technical'
> description.

I'm not aware of a term for this situation in AmE either, but I doubt
that "inserting student" would be understood.  Perhaps the term most
likely to be understood is a "new student" in the class.

Bill in Kentucky
Kevin - 02 Feb 2010 14:02 GMT
> > In message
> > <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df691...@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Bill in Kentucky

"Inserting student" was literally translated from Chinese, you could
say it was badly translated, I did it. :)
Kevin in Hong Kong
HVS - 02 Feb 2010 14:06 GMT
On 02 Feb 2010, Bill McCray wrote

>> In message
>> <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df6919fa@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.c
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> term most likely to be understood is a "new student" in the
> class.

Schools undoubtedly have an administrative term for this situation.  
In the absence of knowing what that term is, though, I'd say that
referring to something like a "mid-year entrant" would be clear
enough to most people.

Signature

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Ian Jackson - 02 Feb 2010 14:15 GMT
>On 02 Feb 2010, Bill McCray wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>referring to something like a "mid-year entrant" would be clear
>enough to most people.

That's a pretty good term - maybe also "mid-term entrant" (the 'other'
sort of "term", of course).
Signature

Ian

HVS - 02 Feb 2010 14:26 GMT
On 02 Feb 2010, Ian Jackson wrote


>> Schools undoubtedly have an administrative term for this
>> situation. In the absence of knowing what that term is, though,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> That's a pretty good term - maybe also "mid-term entrant" (the
> 'other' sort of "term", of course).

Indeed;  I considered that one, too, but I think it would refer to
specific type of "mid-year entrant" -- a pupil who entered during,
rather than between, school terms.

Signature

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 02 Feb 2010 15:52 GMT
>>On 02 Feb 2010, Bill McCray wrote
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>That's a pretty good term - maybe also "mid-term entrant" (the 'other'
>sort of "term", of course).

The phrase might be "deferred entrant".

This independent website writing about Primary School entry (in the UK)
at age 5 says:
http://www.gettherightschool.co.uk/children-born-in-summer-starting-later.html

   At What Age Should My Child Start School?
   Your child will start school the September term after their fourth
   birthday. Your child will turn five within this first school year.
   
   If your son or daughter was born between the 1st of September and
   the 28th (or 29th February if a leap year) then you should
   reasonably expect he or she to start schooling in the September term
   after their 4th birthday. If you child was born during the summer
   months then there may be a possibility that you can defer their
   start date until January.

   Deferred Admissions
   A deferred admission is the right of any parent whose child is of
   statutory school age but who wishes to defer their admission until
   the January term when their child will be that little bit older. For
   example if your son or daughter was born in a summer month, which
   would make them a particularly young four-year-old in September,
   then you can in some instances defer their starting date until the
   Spring term which commences in January of the following year.
   
   Parents do not have a legal obligation to make arrangements for
   their child to attend school until the beginning of the term
   following their 4th birthday, so if that fourth birthday falls
   between 1 January and 31 August, for example, parents can request to
   defer admission until the beginning of January the following year.

I've tried to find useful information about nursery school entry, but
there seems to be considerable variation. One problem is that "nursery
school" is used with different meanings. This is an example of public
sector nursery schools:
http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/education/admissions/nursery/

   Pupils are admitted to these schools at a single point of entry in
   the September of the year in which they become four.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

Kevin - 03 Feb 2010 00:10 GMT
On Feb 2, 11:52 pm, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:15:30 +0000, Ian Jackson
>
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.english.usage)

Many thanks Peter.  I am not looking for a term specifically for
nursery school (I mentioned it just as an example), in fact, I am
looking for common term which I think could be applied for nursery,
primary or secondary.  The reasons for their late admission may be due
to age, illness or other specific reasons.  All the replies here
indeed already solved my problem. With great thanks.
Kevin
Cece - 02 Feb 2010 20:42 GMT
> > In message
> > <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df691...@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nor am I.  And I myself started first grade a while after the
beginning of the term.

I don't think Americans use the term "nursery school" now.  When I was
a kid, yes -- but it wasn't really school; it was organized and non-
governmental daycare, and attendance wasn't required.  A stay-at-home
mother who suddenly had things to do during the day could leave her
child there for that day only.

Back then, kindergarten wasn't required either; a child could be
enrolled if the parents wanted and was then expected to attend every
day.  Kindergarten was half a day; each kindergartner attended either
morning or afternoon.  All I remember from kindergaren is coloring and
drawing pictures.  Actual education didn't begin until first grade.
By the late 1950s, kindergarten was a thing of the past.

Kids started grade school at the age of six; the school year began the
day after Labor Day (first Monday in September).  In the early 1950s,
a child had to turn six before the end of that year to start; by the
mid-'50s, the date was changed to September 1.  A school year was
September to June (or into June by a week), divided into two
semesters.  A semester was often called a "term."

A grade school near me had mid-termers:  each year was divided in
two.  Children born between June 1 and December 1 began school in the
fall; children born between January 1 and June 1 began school in the
spring.  After a couple years of that, all the mid-termers took tests
to see if they could be junped ahead a term or must be kept back a
term.

I don't know how schools run things now.  There is pre-K(indergarten),
for childred aged 3 to 5; kindergarten comed next, and may still be
for 5-year-olds.  They may be full-day (as most adults work now, and
can't stay home to care for the children during the day).  They may do
some real education there.    Perhaps more than actual school does...
Kevin - 03 Feb 2010 01:19 GMT
<snip>
> Kids started grade school at the age of six; the school year began the
> day after Labor Day (first Monday in September).  In the early 1950s,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> to see if they could be junped ahead a term or must be kept back a
> term.

Same in Hong Kong.

> I don't know how schools run things now.  There is pre-K(indergarten),
> for childred aged 3 to 5; kindergarten comed next, and may still be
> for 5-year-olds.  They may be full-day (as most adults work now, and
> can't stay home to care for the children during the day).  They may do
> some real education there.    Perhaps more than actual school does...

Here, a nursery always enrols kids at age of 2, and it is a four-year
and full-day system.   It aims to take care of kids whose parents need
to work full time.  Apart from singing and playing, they do learn
alphabets, words, and pronunciation.  A kindergarten here is 3-year
and half-day school, which takes kids at age of 3.

Kevin
tony cooper - 03 Feb 2010 04:11 GMT
><snip>
>> Kids started grade school at the age of six; the school year began the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>alphabets, words, and pronunciation.  A kindergarten here is 3-year
>and half-day school, which takes kids at age of 3.

As might be expected, each state in the US has a different set of
rules.  In Florida, the minimum age for pre-K is 4 years-old.  That's
under the state Voluntary Prekindergarten (VPK) program. VPK is a free
program for 3 hours per school day in either a morning or afternoon
program.  The child can attend a double session, but there is a charge
for the extra time.

A child under 4 years-old can be enrolled in a nursery school, but
nursery schools are for-fee.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Athel Cornish-Bowden - 03 Feb 2010 15:06 GMT
> In message
> <e3ec3b19-09b0-475e-a1e8-f260df6919fa@s36g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> I really don't think that there is any BrE word (or words) which
> specifically describe this situation.

and even if there were, it would be sufficiently little known and used
to need to be defined on first mention.

>  I suppose you could say "intermediate joiner", "late joiner", "late
> arrival", "mid-way starter" - or any combination of these. But I can't
> think of a 'technical' description.

Signature

athel

 
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