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Merry Xmas vs Happy Xmas

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Ulysses at Grasmere - 08 Feb 2010 15:03 GMT
I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
whereupon the British  switched to "Happy" Christmas
in later generations.  I don't hear "merry" in the States
except in holiday context ,or as in "Merry Widow Waltz"
or "Merry Wives of Windsor."

David H
~~~~~~~~
semiretired@my-deja.com - 08 Feb 2010 22:20 GMT
>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
>whereupon the British  switched to "Happy" Christmas
>in later generations.  I don't hear "merry" in the States
>except in holiday context ,or as in "Merry Widow Waltz"
>or "Merry Wives of Windsor."                David H

The advantage of "Merry Christmas" is than one can then
proceed to say "and Happy New Year without repetition"

Scots who say "Happy Christmas"  can follow with
"and a Good New Year"
mm - 08 Feb 2010 23:02 GMT
>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>David H
>~~~~~~~~
There is Robin Hood and his merry band of men.

Merry Maids, a chain of brokers for cleaning personnel, especially for
claining homes.

And many of these, though not all are American of course:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3A
en-US%3Aofficial&hs=5QI&num=100&newwindow=1&q=merry+-christmas+-xmas+-wives+-wid
ow&btnG=Search&lr=&aq=f&aqi=&oq
=

And in NYC there is the challange to learn how to say merry, Mary, and
marry, all differently.  Real New Yorkers can do it.  People who came
from out of town, like me, often can't.
Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa.   10 years
Indianapolis   7 years
Chicago          6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore       26 years

Ian Jackson - 09 Feb 2010 10:37 GMT
>>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>>the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>marry, all differently.  Real New Yorkers can do it.  People who came
>from out of town, like me, often can't.

But, of course, "happy" and "merry" are not the same thing. "Happy" can
simply be being in a state of solitary contentment. Being "merry" is
usually a group activity, involving jollity, carousing and bonhomie.
Signature

Ian

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 09 Feb 2010 11:41 GMT
>>>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>>>the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>simply be being in a state of solitary contentment. Being "merry" is
>usually a group activity, involving jollity, carousing and bonhomie.

The less boisterous meanings of "merry" have become obsolete.

OED:

   I. That causes pleasure.
   
   1. a. Of an occupation, event, state, or condition: causing pleasure
      or happiness; pleasing, delightful. Obs.
   
      b. With implied impersonal subject and indirect object denoting
      the person characterized by happiness or joy. Cf. sense 4a. Obs.
   
      c. Of music, speech, etc.: pleasing to the ear, pleasant to hear.
      Of a musical instrument: producing a sweet sound; (of a bird)
      having a pleasant song. (In later use passing into sense 5.) Obs.
      d. Of a place or country: pleasant, agreeable in character. Obs.
   
      e. Of weather, climate, a season, a day, etc.: pleasant, fine. Of
      a wind: favourable for sailing. Also fig. Obs.
        The sense is attested earliest as a surname.
   
      f. Of looks or appearance: pleasing to behold, attractive. Obs.
   
      g. Of an odour: pleasant, fragrant. Of a fruit, plant, etc.:
      sweet-smelling, aromatic. Obs.
        All recorded instances of this sense are translations of
        post-classical Latin jocundus in Bartholomaeus Anglicus De
        Proprietatibus Rerum.
   
    2. Of a tale, saying, jest, etc.: amusing, diverting, funny.
     Now only with mixture of sense 5.
   
    3. a. Of sunlight, moonlight, etc.: bright. Obs.
   
       b. Of an article of clothing, an ornament, etc.: fine, handsome,
       brightly coloured. Obs.
   
    II. Characterized by happiness or joy.
   
    4. a. Full of animated enjoyment (in early use chiefly with
       reference to feasting or sporting); full of laughter or
       cheerfulness; joyous. Also of a person's general disposition:
       given to joyousness or mirth.
   
       b. Happy, pleased, content. Obs.
   
       c. Boisterous or cheerful due to alcohol; slightly drunk, tipsy.
       Cf. market-merry adj. at MARKET n. Compounds 2, merry-drunk adj.
       at MERRY adv. Compounds 1.
   
       d. Jocular, humorous, witty. Also with on, upon, with (a
       person). Now only in to make merry at Phrases 1a. Obs.
   
    5. a. Expressive of merriment; characterized by cheerfulness or
       exuberant gaiety; festive, joyful, jolly.
   
       b. Of a season or festival: characterized by celebration and
       rejoicing. Freq. in Merry Christmas! and other seasonal
       greetings.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

Ulysses at Grasmere - 13 Feb 2010 10:30 GMT
On Feb 9, 5:41 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:37:33 +0000, Ian Jackson
>
[quoted text clipped - 92 lines]
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in alt.english.usage)

~~~~~~~~
So the conclusion is..."Happy Christmas" is a Scot
preference and the southerners still say "Merry
Christmas."  Have I got this right ?

David H
~~~~~~~~
Ian Jackson - 13 Feb 2010 10:57 GMT
In message
<8ca67abc-6859-4755-9b9f-bcd83e0a59ca@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Ulysses at Grasmere <davidholiman@yahoo.com> writes
>On Feb 9, 5:41 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 102 lines]
>David H
>~~~~~~~~

Well, traditionally, Scots tend(ed) to keep Christmas as a one-day
religious celebration, with no public holiday following on Boxing Day.
Their "merry" celebration is New Year, when (it is rumoured) vast
amounts of alcohol are sometimes drunk. In recognition of this fact, Jan
2 is wisely a public holiday, for sobering up. However, while I doubt
that, for Christmas, the Scots actually 'prefer' "Happy" to "Merry", the
greeting "A Guid (Good) New Year" is 100% theirs.
Signature

Ian

Brian Cryer - 16 Feb 2010 11:21 GMT
>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
> the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
> whereupon the British  switched to "Happy" Christmas
> in later generations.  I don't hear "merry" in the States
> except in holiday context ,or as in "Merry Widow Waltz"
> or "Merry Wives of Windsor."

Many Brits (myself included) still say "Merry Christmas".  I know that both
"Merry Christmas" and "Happy Christmas" are in use where I live in England.
Personally I prefer "Merry Christmas", and reserve "Happy ..." for use with
Birthdays (which is odd given that Christmas is celebrating a birthday!)

FWIW: "Merry Christmas" and "Merry Xmas" (from your subject line) are not
the same. Merry Xmas is more likely to give offense to a Christian, whereas
to a non-Christian both are probably equivalent.
Signature

Brian Cryer
www.cryer.co.uk/brian

Dr Peter Young - 16 Feb 2010 12:28 GMT
>>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>> the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
>> whereupon the British  switched to "Happy" Christmas
>> in later generations.  I don't hear "merry" in the States
>> except in holiday context ,or as in "Merry Widow Waltz"
>> or "Merry Wives of Windsor."

> Many Brits (myself included) still say "Merry Christmas".  I know that both
> "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Christmas" are in use where I live in England.
> Personally I prefer "Merry Christmas", and reserve "Happy ..." for use with
> Birthdays (which is odd given that Christmas is celebrating a birthday!)

> FWIW: "Merry Christmas" and "Merry Xmas" (from your subject line) are not
> the same. Merry Xmas is more likely to give offense to a Christian, whereas
> to a non-Christian both are probably equivalent.

<cynic>

No you're confusing two separate festivals. Xmas is a commercial
festival, starting in about mid-September, and finishing on 25
December, whereas Christmas is a religious festival between 24
December and 6 January.

</cynic>

With best wishes,

Peter.

Signature

Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK.           Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 16 Feb 2010 12:31 GMT
>>I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>> the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Personally I prefer "Merry Christmas", and reserve "Happy ..." for use with
>Birthdays (which is odd given that Christmas is celebrating a birthday!)

Yes, but. "Happy Birthday" is said to the person whose birthday it is
(P). It is not said to other people at a party or other celebration of
P's birthday.

I have never heard of a church in which this "hymn" has been sung on
Christmas Day:

 Happy birthday to you,
 Happy birthday to you,
 Happy birthday dear Jesus,
 Happy birthday to you.

>FWIW: "Merry Christmas" and "Merry Xmas" (from your subject line) are not
>the same. Merry Xmas is more likely to give offense to a Christian, whereas
>to a non-Christian both are probably equivalent.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

Bill McCray - 16 Feb 2010 15:11 GMT
>> I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>> the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> not the same. Merry Xmas is more likely to give offense to a Christian,
> whereas to a non-Christian both are probably equivalent.

I have seen it claimed that the "X" in "Xmas" is the Greek letter chi,
an abbreviation for "Christ".  If so, it shouldn't cause offense to
Christians (or maybe Xians).

Bill in Kentucky
Ian Jackson - 18 Feb 2010 15:38 GMT
>>> I wonder if "Merry Christmas" is something brought over by
>>> the Elizabethans and then retained by the Americans,
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>an abbreviation for "Christ".  If so, it shouldn't cause offense to
>Christians (or maybe Xians).

True Christians should not offended by such trivial things.
Signature

Ian

 
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