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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010More words from the days of B&W tv
More words from the days of B&W TV I watched an episode of The Rifleman, with Chuck Conners sp? tonight, and he and his son spend a night with a wagon train. Before he goes to sleep, he tells his kid to wait until they leave the next day to drlink any water because the water in the wagon train's barrel might be "polluted". Not bad, poisonous, or dirty, but polluted. I didn't think that was such a popular word in the 1960's or whenever the show was shot. I don't remember when the last B&W shows were shot. (Not counting Homicide) I also didn't think it was a popular word in the 1860's to 80's, which is abut when the show was set, though I don't know, and I don't expect them to research every word anyhow. So the kid disobeys and is sick within a day or two, and they call an experienced doctor, who comes in the 2-room cabin and first thing he does is inhale. He says many diseases have their own smell, and from the smell of the room, the outside room, not even the one the boy is in, he can tell that he has typhoid. How much truth do you think there is in that, wrt typhoid and other diseases?  SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > More words from the days of B&W TV > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > think that was such a popular word in the 1960's or whenever the show > was shot. Once in about 1955 I was at a beach in Cornwall, near which there was a tap bearing the words (if memory serves, which after all this time it may not) "Polluted water: don't drink". Of course, if I remember it at all it may be because at the time I read it I was unfamiliar with the word "polluted" -- if there was a sign nearby saying "Public footpath" I have forgotten it long ago. Signatureathel > does is inhale. He says many diseases have their own smell, and from > the smell of the room, the outside room, not even the one the boy is > in, he can tell that he has typhoid. > > How much truth do you think there is in that, wrt typhoid and other > diseases? It was a commonly held belief. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory_of_disease I suspect many people still believe it at some level, for example the popularity of "airing out" rooms etc. SignatureBob http://www.kanyak.com On Feb 9, 7:58 am, Opinicus <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote: > > does is inhale. He says many diseases have their own smell, and from > > the smell of the room, the outside room, not even the one the boy is [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > Bobhttp://www.kanyak.com A room that hasn't been aired out holds onto odors. The teenage boy? The teenage girl? Some diseases do have their own smell, usually on the breath, and that is part of diagnosis. Typhoid I don't know about it, but it may have been one of them. Connors. The Rifleman ran from 1958 to 1963. On 09 Feb 2010, Cece wrote > On Feb 9, 7:58 am, Opinicus > <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > and that is part of diagnosis. Typhoid I don't know about it, > but it may have been one of them. AIUI, though (without looking at Wikipee), miasma was the idea that what you could smell *caused* disease -- not that it was a symptom or effect -- and that if you could get rid of the foul air, you would eliminate the disease. (Many of the impressive works of Victorian ventilation engineering, of course, were intended to eliminate the presumed atmospheric source of diseases like cholera and typhoid.) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >AIUI, though (without looking at Wikipee), miasma was the idea that >what you could smell *caused* disease -- not that it was a symptom >or effect -- and that if you could get rid of the foul air, you >would eliminate the disease. Hence, "malaria" Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >> Some diseases do have their own smell, usually on the breath, >> and that is part of diagnosis. Typhoid I don't know about it, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >or effect -- and that if you could get rid of the foul air, you >would eliminate the disease. How can I put this delicately? If you can smell faeces, you are only smelling faeces because faecal matter has entered your nose. Go figure Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) On 10 Feb 2010, ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote >> AIUI, though (without looking at Wikipee), miasma was the idea >> that what you could smell *caused* disease -- not that it was a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you can smell faeces, you are only smelling faeces because > faecal matter has entered your nose. Go figure But if you focus on simply eliminating the stench -- say by airing a room -- without identifying where it's coming from, you've not removed the source of that stench. That was the miasma/cholera/typhoid problem. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >>> Some diseases do have their own smell, usually on the breath, >>> and that is part of diagnosis. Typhoid I don't know about it, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you can smell faeces, you are only smelling faeces because > faecal matter has entered your nose. Go figure I don't know about "delicately", but what you say is certainly wrong. No significant "matter" has entered your nose, only a minute quantity of volatile components of the matter. SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. >®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >wrong. No significant "matter" has entered your nose, only a minute >quantity of volatile components of the matter. Together with air-borne viruses no doubt. You will recall that a pocket full of posies wasn't much good as a protection against the plague, If you could smell a plague victim you were too damned close. Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >> ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Together with air-borne viruses no doubt. No. Air-borne viruses come from explicitly spraying sources - sneezing or coughing. Feces release no viruses (unless they dry, turn to dust, and get blown by the wind - /then/ your saying of matter entering the nose would make sense. But at that point, you probably couldn't smell it, and the viruses would be most likely dead. Bacterial spores - that's a different matter.) > You will recall that a pocket full of posies wasn't much good as a > protection against the plague, If you could smell a plague victim > you were too damned close. Plague is not air-borne, so smelling a plague victim endangers you in no way. SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. > ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:45:10 -0500, Patok [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Plague is not air-borne, so smelling a plague victim endangers > you in no way. My sister won't enter a public bathroom if she catches the slightest scent of diarrhea within. Of course, I have to stand outside the men's toilet so she can use that one. But, there you go. Let's face it. You do have to wonder, don't you? >®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Plague is not air-borne, so smelling a plague victim endangers you >in no way. Please note the following, especially the reference to the inhalation of infected droplets The Plague Plague What Caused the Plague? Yersinia Pestis Plague and Animals Types of Plague Bubonic Plague Pneumonic Plague Septicemic Plague Plague Transmission Bites from infected rodent fleas Direct contact with infected tissue or bodily fluids Inhaling infected droplets. Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) > >®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Pneumonic plague is spread through the air. Takes close contact with an infected person -- usually. Bubonic or septicemic plague is not; those forms take the infected flea. http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/plague/factsheet.asp Cholera and typhoid are spread mostly by improperly treated water. Vegetables watered with polluted water and shellfish from polluted water can be sources too. Remember the water pump in the London neighborhood where typhoid was rampant? Remember Dr. Watson's mention of bad drains in -- was it Brixton? Typhoid is the reason modern drains have the p-trap. > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 12:02:45 -0500, Patok > <crazy.div.patok@gmail.com> [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > Direct contact with infected tissue or bodily fluids > Inhaling infected droplets. And some droplets can be aerosolized from the fierce toilet flushing. > > On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:45:10 -0500, Patok <crazy.div.pa...@gmail.com> > > You will recall that a pocket full of posies wasn't much good as a > > protection against the plague, If you could smell a plague victim > > you were too damned close. > Plague is not air-borne, so smelling a plague victim endangers you > in no way. But to be close to a victim _would_ endanger you, as his fleas have a chance of reaching you. So if you _had_ to be near a victim, it is possible that posies would actually protect you: There are several plants whose smell is known to be avoided by insects. Garlic also is one. The same about incense sticks, that really keep mosquitos away and so can protect against malaria. Greetings Marco p >>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:45:10 -0500, Patok <crazy.div.pa...@gmail.com> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > plants whose smell is known to be avoided by insects. Garlic also is > one. You have a point, but these are all indirect and uncertain threats. The smell in itself is not a danger, just an indicator that it is possible to get infected by some other means, and one needs to be careful. > The same about incense sticks, that really keep mosquitos away and so > can protect against malaria. You think incense sticks keep mosquitoes away? The only reliable way I know of is electronic sound. They /do/ sell burning things that supposedly repel mosquitoes, but they don't work, IME. SignatureYou'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone. On 10 Feb 2010, ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote >> ®óñ© © ²°¹° wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You will recall that a pocket full of posies wasn't much good as > a protection against the plague, That's precisely the point about the "miasma" theory -- which you appear to be defending, but only because you appear to have misunderstood its central point. The theory was that it was the air itself that was dangerous, and that if you could get rid of the bad air (by a pocketful of posies), it would *indeed* protect you against the disease. > If you could smell a plague victim you were too damned close. Not really: like cholera and typhoid, plague wasn't airborne. Although the smell was a warning, it wasn't in itself dangerous -- which is what the theory of miasma was all about. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > How much truth do you think there is in that, wrt typhoid and other > diseases? Some years ago I read a newspaper or magazine article lamenting modern doctors' reliance on tests to the detriment of their diagnostic abilities. An anecdote was cited: the author, at that time a trainee, was reaching a diagnosis when an older doctor poked his head in the room and said, "I smell diphtheria." That was the correct diagnosis. Believe it if you want to. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> How much truth do you think there is in that, wrt typhoid and other >> diseases? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >his head in the room and said, "I smell diphtheria." That was the >correct diagnosis. Believe it if you want to. It seems that some diseases can be detected by smell - if a dog is doing the sniffing. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_dog_cancer.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5183290/ Much of the research in this area is based on the theory that disease causes subtle chemical changes in the body or alterations in metabolism, which in turn releases a different smell, or chemical marker. “This isn’t anything magic,” says Dr. Larry Myers, associate professor at the Auburn University College of Veterinary Medicine in Auburn, Ala., who has personally tested the olfactory capabilities of more than 4,000 dogs over the last two decades. “Physicians have always used their own senses to determine the presence or absence of disease.” For instance, diabetes was once diagnosed by the smell or taste of a patient’s urine. Certain infections in burn victims can be detected by the smell of a patient’s skin, and bad breath is often a sign of gum disease. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) >>> How much truth do you think there is in that, wrt typhoid and other >>> diseases? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >It seems that some diseases can be detected by smell - if a dog is doing >the sniffing. Our regular babysitter has a service dog that can detect the onset of one of her seizures before she herself can. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > More words from the days of B&W TV > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > is abut when the show was set, though I don't know, and I don't expect > them to research every word anyhow. 'Popular' I couldn't say. In use? Deffo. OED has an early cite for the usage: "1585 T. Washington tr. Nicholay's Voy. iv. ii. 115 No drop of the bloud should fall into the water, least the same shuld therby be polluted." And another contemporary wit the Rifleman: "1860-1 F. Nightingale Nursing 20 Within the last few years, a large part of London was in the daily habit of using water polluted by the drainage of its sewers and water-closets." SignatureJohn Dean Oxford |
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