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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010What type of umlaut is used in "Risë Stevens"?
Most of the time we see this symbol, it's either a Germanic umlaut or a dieresis. "Risë" is obviously a different beast. Wikipedia has an article on the e-umlaut, but it didn't do me much good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ë I would really love some help with this. :) Thanks! fvf vvv schrieb: > Most of the time we see this symbol, it's either a Germanic umlaut or > a dieresis. "Risë" is obviously a different beast. Wikipedia has an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I would really love some help with this. :) Thanks! what's a Risë? Luca  Signature"Paying taxes is like going to the zoo. Admission is 20 bucks. You can't walk in and say 'Here's 18.50. I don't like zebras.'" - Jon Stewart Hi, Seems to be the french-like trema, from the wiki. In order to have her name not pronounced "Raize", but "Rizé". But afaik the accent has something to do with elided letters ...? While the trema is all about pronounciation. (I might be wrong, so triplecheck.) T Most of the time we see this symbol, it's either a Germanic umlaut or a dieresis. "Risë" is obviously a different beast. Wikipedia has an article on the e-umlaut, but it didn't do me much good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ë I would really love some help with this. :) Thanks! Tronscend schrieb: > Hi, > > Seems to be the french-like trema, from the wiki. > In order to have her name not pronounced "Raize", but "Rizé". Well there's a difference between an accent aigu (é) and a trema (ë). Tremas are to phonologically separate two successive vowels, as in "naïve" (naheeve, not nayve). (If you post your answers below people's texts, it's easier to create easy-to-follow threads. this is not like writing e-mail to your friend.) Luca Signature"Paying taxes is like going to the zoo. Admission is 20 bucks. You can't walk in and say 'Here's 18.50. I don't like zebras.'" - Jon Stewart > Tronscend schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> Seems to be the french-like trema, from the wiki. >> In order to have her name not pronounced "Raize", but "Rizé". > Well there's a difference between an accent aigu (é) and a trema > (ë). > Tremas are to phonologically separate two successive vowels, as in > "naïve" (naheeve, not nayve). Yes. There are Chloë and Zoë. (Though I must admit I know a Chloe. She doesn't use the trema. On the other hand, I have always heard Risë Stevens' name pronounced like "Riza (as in that big pyramid at Giza), and have wondered if the ë is added just to help out us dumb clucks to say her name correctly. That way we don't have to tolerate the knowing sneers of the "in group". But maybe her name should be "Reessa" as in Condaleezza? (And maybe my instructive "in group" are just more dumb clucks? Why didn't we ever call her Condaleetsa, as in pizza? >> Tronscend schrieb: >>> Hi, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Risë Stevens' name pronounced like "Riza (as in that big pyramid at > Giza), Wikipedia says REE-sah, IMDb says REE-zah. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> Tronscend schrieb: >>> Hi, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Giza), and have wondered if the ë is added just to help out us dumb > clucks to say her name correctly. That's how I'd interpret it. I assume that the ë has the same function as in Brontë, to alert us to the fact that it isn't silent. (Noticing the .de in Luca's address, I'd add that in German it would be superfluous because it wouldn't be silent anyway.) I've a feling I've come across other English names like Brontë, but I can't immediately think of one. > That way we don't have to tolerate > the knowing sneers of the "in group". But maybe her name should be > "Reessa" as in Condaleezza? (And maybe my instructive "in group" are > just more dumb clucks? Why didn't we ever call her Condaleetsa, as in > pizza? Signatureathel Athel Cornish-Bowden schrieb: > That's how I'd interpret it. I assume that the ë has the same function > as in Brontë, to alert us to the fact that it isn't silent. (Noticing > the .de in Luca's address, I'd add that in German it would be > superfluous because it wouldn't be silent anyway.) I'm quite aware of that (Porschë!), though I'm from .ch. > I've a feling I've come across other English names like Brontë, but I > can't immediately think of one. Mötorhead? Isn't it just a gimmicky way of spelling a name? Luca Signature"Paying taxes is like going to the zoo. Admission is 20 bucks. You can't walk in and say 'Here's 18.50. I don't like zebras.'" - Jon Stewart > Athel Cornish-Bowden schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Mötorhead? By "like Brontë" I meant names that contain a diaeresis on a vowel that would be expected to be silent. No one would expect the first o in "Motorhead" (if it were spelt like that) to be silent. > Isn't it just a gimmicky way of spelling a name? I don't think the Brontës went in for gimmicks much. Signatureathel >> Athel Cornish-Bowden schrieb: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >I don't think the Brontës went in for gimmicks much. I think "gimmicky" referred "Mötorhead". As for "Brontë, it rather depends on how we understand "gimmick". Patrick Brontë's family name was Brunty or Prunty (both anglicised Irish Gaelic forms of Ó Proinntigh). He changed it to Brontë while an adult. We've looked at this previously on AUE so I just give a few URLs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bront%C3%AB Ó Proinntigh was earlier anglicised as Prunty and sometimes Brunty. At some point, the father of the sisters, Patrick Brontë (born Brunty), conceived of the alternate spelling with the diaeresis over the terminal "e" to indicate that the name has two syllables. It is not known for certain what motivated him to do so, and multiple theories exist to account for the change. He may have wished to hide his humble origins. As a man of letters, he would have been familiar with classical Greek and may have chosen the name after the cyclops Brontes (literally 'thunder'). http://www.infobritain.co.uk/Haworth%20and%20the%20Brontes.htm Haworth and the Brontes In 1802 a young man from Ireland named Patrick Brunty arrived at St John's College, Cambridge, with the aim of training to be a clergyman. He came from a poor Irish farming family. Attendance at Cambridge was only possible with the sponsorship of Reverend Thomas Tighe, in whose household this bright boy had served as a tutor. It is thought that Tighe persuaded Patrick to change his name from Brunty to the more distinguished Bronte, the Greek word for thunder. Patrick did well at Cambridge, and entered the Church. .... It is also suggested that the name was chosen because it was in-the-air being a title of Nelson, the Duke of Brontë. A search for Patrick Brontë change of name finds more (similar) information. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.english.usage) Athel Cornish-Bowden schrieb: >> Mötorhead? > > By "like Brontë" I meant names that contain a diaeresis on a vowel that > would be expected to be silent. No one would expect the first o in > "Motorhead" (if it were spelt like that) to be silent. For the record, it is in fact "Motörhead". Different spelling. Same difference. >> Isn't it just a gimmicky way of spelling a name? I thought Risë might be one. But seeing that her first name seems to be real (while her real last name was "Sternberg"), I'll just accept her name as it is. Luca Signature"Paying taxes is like going to the zoo. Admission is 20 bucks. You can't walk in and say 'Here's 18.50. I don't like zebras.'" - Jon Stewart |
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