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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010I do not recall ever hearing uttered the words "Communism"
Hello I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, being an intermediate learner (or just a beginner) of English, which is not my mother tongue. Could anyone tell me what does "uttered" function here? I guess it's a verb, but could it be there without a "subject"? I mean in formal writing. Here is the sentence. "In my myriad meetings I had with Chinese economic and financial officials, I do not recall ever hearing uttered the words "Communism" or "Marx". With thanks to all. Kevin in Hong Kong > Hello > I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > officials, I do not recall ever hearing uttered the words "Communism" > or "Marx". I think it is a participle (verb used as an adjective) modifying "words". It is easier to see if written as "... I do not recall ever hearing the uttered words ...". Bill in Kentucky > > Hello > > I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Bill in Kentucky Oh Great Thank Bill! It makes sense to me now. Kevin > Hello > I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kevin in Hong Kong It is simply another way of saying 'said' - although perhaps considered to be slightly more elegant. This would mean exactly the same thing: '... I do not recall ever hearing said the words "Communism" or "Marx". > It is simply another way of saying 'said' - although perhaps considered to > be slightly more elegant. This would mean exactly the same thing: '... I do > not recall ever hearing said the words "Communism" or "Marx". Yeah, I guess so, and thanks. Kevin >> It is simply another way of saying 'said' - although perhaps considered to >> be slightly more elegant. This would mean exactly the same thing: '... I do >> not recall ever hearing said the words "Communism" or "Marx". > >Yeah, I guess so, and thanks. >Kevin Or (possibly slightly more felicitously) I do not recall ever hearing the words "Communism" or "Marx" spoken.  Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) Hello Kevin Yes, 'uttered' is functioning as a verb, and it does indeed have a subject. If you recast the clause like this, you'll see that the subject of 'uttered' is the noun phrase 'the words Communism or Marx': I do not recall ever hearing . It's not unusual to put certain verbs at the beginning of a clause, as your example shows, although it does sometimes cause a problem of analysis, as you found out! (By the way, the square-bracketed sub-clause is the direct object of 'hearing', and it's in the passive voice. This is where grammar gets really interesting!) BillJ -------------------------------------------------------------- BillJ: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdnvj/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Kevin Yes, 'uttered' is functioning as a verb, and it does indeed have a subject. If you recast the clause like this, you'll see that the subject of 'uttered' is the noun phrase 'the words Communism or Marx': I do not recall ever hearing . It's not unusual to put certain verbs at the beginning of a clause, as your example shows, although it does sometimes cause a problem of analysis, as you found out! (By the way, the square-bracketed sub-clause is the direct object of 'hearing', and it's in the passive voice. This is where grammar gets really interesting!) BillJ -------------------------------------------------------------- BillJ: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdnvj/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- > Hello Kevin > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > -------------------------------------------------------------- THANKS Bill J- It's great to learn that it's a verb. On second thought of what Bill McCray explained, I did cast doubt because the sentence says "..uttered the words..." and Bill McCray tried to rewrite it as "the uttered words", I don't know, but I wonder if we could randomly change the order like that. I did not imply that Bill McCray is wrong, just what I know in this thing is limited. But your explanation did confuse me, I had not seen the subject as you mentioned. Gradually, I saw it. Right, it's quite interesting. Kevin > Hello > I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > With thanks to all. In the myriad of meetings I had with Chinese economic and financial officials, I do not recall ever hearing the words "Communism" or "Marx" uttered. That should help. The word "uttered" is not needed, but it does not hurt. GFH GFH - you've just repeated what I said, but without addressing Kevin's concern about the apparent lack of a subject for the verb 'uttered'. Kevin - are you okay now with the subject being 'the words Communism or Marx', as I said in my first reply? BillJ -------------------------------------------------------------- BillJ: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdnvj/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- >GFH - you've just repeated what I said, but without addressing > Kevin's concern about the apparent lack of a subject for the verb [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 'the words Communism or Marx', as I said in my first > reply? Is an important point not being missed? The sentence is possibly a little clearer if "being" (or maybe "having been"?) is added: "I do not recall ever hearing being uttered the words "Communism" or "Marx"". "Being uttered" can also be placed at the end of the sentence: "I do not recall ever hearing the words "Communism" or "Marx" being uttered." Note that "Is an important point not being missed?" uses the same construction. I suppose you could save a word and leave out the "being" and say "Is an important point not missed?". SignatureIan On Feb 14, 12:57 am, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In message <a16dfcaa95f347418b8f62edb5be8...@englishforums.com>, BillJ > <billj-nore...@englishforums.com> writes>GFH - you've just repeated what I said, but without addressing [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > -- > Ian It would definitely be clearer if "being" is added, and I guess I should have no problem with it. ha! Thanks. Kevin > GFH - you've just repeated what I said, but without addressing > Kevin's concern about the apparent lack of a subject for the verb [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > -------------------------------------------------------------- Yes I did and thanks. It's inversion, and passive voice. Kevin www.superaffiliate7.com Log on to Find out how you can make money by clicking my Web Site. You will find good Affiiliates for health products, such as EDTA-Oral Chelation, Apricot kernels for cancer treament, Other affiliates are related to Computers, household products, Satellite TV (You may watch International Channel on your Computer), Download Commmercial Movies, Email, Free Horoscope. > Hello > I saw this sentence and found it strange, simply in my own sense, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kevin in Hong Kong |
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