 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010Who/whom
Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they liked. or Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom they liked.  Signature.... A lamprophyre containing small phenocrysts of olivine and augite, and usually also biotite or an amphibole, in a glassy groundmass containing analcime. > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > liked. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom > they liked. Whom. > > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > > liked. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Whom. Thank you. I thought it might be the second one. Signature.... A lamprophyre containing small phenocrysts of olivine and augite, and usually also biotite or an amphibole, in a glassy groundmass containing analcime. >Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom >they liked. The objective case is correct, but "whom" sets a pretty high register nowadays. It's a little jarring after those two highly informal phrases right before it. Also, I'd use "who(m)ever" in this context. "It's not the size of the boat, it's Matt McIrvin" -- Joe ¬R / http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/ny2001.html / Manfre > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much > whom they liked. The objective case is correct, but "whom" sets a > pretty high register nowadays. It's a little jarring after those > two highly informal phrases right before it. Also, I'd use > "who(m)ever" in this context. I hate to be a grammar bore, but I can't see any reason to knock whom as being the preferred pronoun in that particular sentence . Those who seek to dumb down the language go after the use of objective case pronouns in such cases like kittens after cockroaches. Personally, I would defend the use of 'objectives' up to the hilt and to heck with everyone else. Incidentally, as you say, 'whomever' in that particular sentence is the correct form (not whom), but that could be seen as being even more formal than 'whom'. BillJ -------------------------------------------------------------- BillJ: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdnvj/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much > whom they liked. The objective case is correct, but "whom" sets a > pretty high register nowadays. It's a little jarring after those > two highly informal phrases right before it. Also, I'd use > "who(m)ever" in this context. I hate to be a grammar bore, but I can't see any reason to knock whom as being the preferred pronoun in that particular sentence . Those who seek to dumb down the language go after the use of objective case pronouns in such cases like kittens after cockroaches. Personally, I would defend the use of 'objectives' up to the hilt and to heck with everyone else. Incidentally, as you say, 'whomever' in that particular sentence is the correct form (not whom), but that could be seen as being even more formal than 'whom'. BillJ -------------------------------------------------------------- BillJ: http://www.englishforums.com/user/bdnvj/profile.htm -------------------------------------------------------------- >>Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom >>they liked. > > The objective case is correct, but "whom" sets a pretty high register > nowadays. It's a little jarring after those two highly informal > phrases right before it. Also, I'd use "who(m)ever" in this context. Google found a page - http://bible.cc/luke/20-18.htm - which compares seventeen different versions of Luke 20:18. In the King James Bible it's: Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. Eight of the translations use 'whomsoever' and two use 'whomever'. The rest re-word it and use neither. I've never heard 'whomever'. But I often hear and use 'whomsoever'. Peter > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > liked. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom > they liked. A useful rule of thumb for guidance is to sort of turn the sentence around and see whether he or him fits: Children of my class and generation liked whom/him. It's usually easy enough to see how it needs to be turned to show what's what (or who's who). More formally, it is as has been noted: the case of the word is the accusative ("objective"). SignatureCordially, Eric Walker, Owlcroft House http://owlcroft.com/english/ > > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > > liked. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > It's usually easy enough to see how it needs to be turned to show what's > what (or who's who). Thank you. That's handy. > More formally, it is as has been noted: the case of the word is the > accusative ("objective"). Signature.... A lamprophyre containing small phenocrysts of olivine and augite, and usually also biotite or an amphibole, in a glassy groundmass containing analcime. > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > liked. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much whom > they liked. Actually, I'd be tempted to say "whomever." Otherwise whom is preferable to who, although many people who disdain proper English in order to seem more hip might object to this. I always teach my ESL students the proper use of whom, but it's frustrating when many ESL coursebooks ignore or even advise against making the distinction. > > Children of my class and generation ran around with pretty much who they > > liked. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > when many ESL coursebooks ignore or even advise against making the > distinction. Usages change. I'd expect to hear "whoever they liked" in speech. You can call it right, or you can call it wrong. You can even argue with whether it's the most common usage of the four that have been suggested on this thread; to my best recollection of my personal experience, it is. I think it's even most common in written informal English. If you're writing a constitution, use "whomever." If you're writing anything much less formal, use "whoever." Frankly, I don't know which case (nominative or accusative0 is the better choice here, and a good case can be made for either. (For those of you who insist that "whom" must be right because it always has been, I can only suggest that you consider the first sentence of mine in this thread.) As a separate matter, I do think it would be far better to use a form with -ever at the end, be it "whoever" or "whomever." Bob Lieblich Whom is obviously of at least two minds about this |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.