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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2010The children took 10 minutes less to solve the problem.
Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the three sentences. a) The novel took the writer two years to write. b) The writer took two years to write the nove. c) It took two years for the writer to write the novel. A Japanese English dictionary says that b) means that the writer ***intentioally*** spent two years to write the novel, while c) is a sort of objective statement of the situation where his creative activity ended up spending two years. But I suppose both of the three are almost the same. What I am most interested in is whether b) really expresses that spending two years was the intention or the purpose of the writer. For another example, how about d)? d) The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems. How can the children intentionally spend 10 minutes less time to solve problems? Or is d) impossible or illogical? I really need your help. LP > But I suppose both of the three > are almost the same. I shall be using this frequently in correspondence.  SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >> But I suppose both of the three >> are almost the same. > > I shall be using this frequently in correspondence. You 3 are a fine pair if ever I saw one. SignatureRay UK >>> But I suppose both of the three >>> are almost the same. >> >> I shall be using this frequently in correspondence. > You 3 are a fine pair if ever I saw one. There are three sorts of people, those who can count and those who can't. With best wishes, Peter. SignaturePeter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004. (US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired. http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk >>>> But I suppose both of the three >>>> are almost the same. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > There are three sorts of people, those who can count and those who > can't. There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't. SignatureRay UK >> But I suppose both of the three >> are almost the same. > >I shall be using this frequently in correspondence. In a letter of three halves Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) >For another example, how about d)? > >d) The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems. Compared with which yardstick? Without one the statement is meaningless. Signature(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯) > Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the > three sentences. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I really need your help. Yes, sentence (b) can be understood to mean that the writer set aside two years for his project. It can also mean the same thing as one of the other sentences (as in (d), which I would probably write in the (c) pattern: "It took the children ten minutes less ..."); so it might be a mistake to interpret it too closely when you meet it in real life. Context and common sense will often make clear what meaning is intended. As others have pointed out, we conventionally say "both of two", but "all of three (or more)". Presumably, our ancestors used to count "one, two, many." >a) The novel took the writer two years to write. >b) The writer took two years to write the nove. >c) It took two years for the writer to write the novel. ... >are almost the same. What I am most interested in is whether b) >really expresses that spending two years was the intention or the >purpose of the writer. No. The subject of the sentence indicates the speaker's focus. a) is about how hard or easy the novel was to write. b) is about how fast or slowly the writer worked. c) is just about the length of time involved. ¬R // Failing is not just for failures, it's \\ users.bestweb.net/~notr for everyone. Failures just have more experience. \\ iamlistener.com > Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the three > sentences. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > really expresses that spending two years was the intention or the > purpose of the writer. Others have dealt with these. > For another example, how about d)? > > d) The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems. > > How can the children intentionally spend 10 minutes less time to solve > problems? Or is d) impossible or illogical? In isolation, this sentence doesn't make much sense. The children took ten minutes less whan who? I assume the sentence was preceded by something like "Adults took an hour to solve these problems." Bill in Kentucky >Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the three >sentences. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >A Japanese English dictionary says that b) means that the writer >***intentioally*** spent two years to write the novel, while c) is a It's going too far to say it means that, because a lot more often than not, it won't mean that. Because whoever says it isn't thinking that the meaning is limited to that meaning, and in fact all 3 are the same, because all 3 are used the same. Let's consider: The employee took one week out of his 3 week vacation to go to Dallas. Thats' a case where the meaning is like the j-e dict. But the author of that gave too much importance to one situation. Some think they know how long it will take or at least think they do when they start, but most people don't know how long it will take them to write a book. (Are you Japanese? If not, I wouldn't try to learn English from books in Japanese. You know enough English to learn English from books in English) >sort of objective statement of the situation where his creative >activity ended up spending two years. But I suppose both of the three [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >d) The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems. Yes, that's good. Ignore the "on" guy who assumes you have no other text to say how long someone else took to solve the problems. >How can the children intentionally spend 10 minutes less time to solve >problems? Or is d) impossible or illogical? > >I really need your help. > >LP SignaturePosters should say where they live, and for which area they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in Western Pa. 10 years Indianapolis 7 years Chicago 6 years Brooklyn, NY 12 years Baltimore 26 years > On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 04:12:33 -0800 (PST), Lazypierrot > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Brooklyn, NY 12 years > Baltimore 26 years I am very much embarrassed to have used "both" when there are three sentences cited. I should have used "all" instead. But I am very glad many people kindly understood my question and gave me precious answers. Anyway, sentence b) "The writer took two years to write the novel." does not necessarily mean the writer "intentionally" spent two years, and sentence d) "The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems." does not necessarily mean the children "intentionally" spent 10 minutes less, either. It all seems to depend on the context. LP > Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the three > sentences. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > really expresses that spending two years was the intention or the > purpose of the writer. The dictionary is struggling to find differences that don't actually exist. While one could argue that there are some differences in meaning among the three examples, they are only significant if a majority of speakers will consistently see those differences, and consistently see the _same_ differences. And that isn't really the case here. Yes, if you stare at these sentences long enough, you start to see nuances among them, but in ordinary writing or conversation, those nuances are lost. This is a good example of how some language books can get carried away with details and list all sorts of "rules" that are useless for everyday communication. When a person writes these books all day long for a living, it's easy to do. > For another example, how about d)? > > d) The children took 10 minutes less to solve all the problems. > > How can the children intentionally spend 10 minutes less time to solve > problems? Or is d) impossible or illogical? It's simply not worth worrying about. The children needed less time to solve the problems than others. It's as simple as that. > > Hello! I would like to know the differences between each of the three > > sentences. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > The dictionary is struggling to find differences that don't actually exist. I can see no differences in meaning at all in the three sentences. |
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