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Vancouverage: A curious distinction

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Opinicus - 26 Feb 2010 07:56 GMT
Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...

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Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

John Dean - 26 Feb 2010 11:34 GMT
> Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
> a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
> ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...

Seems to be a reflection of the official terminology. Curling, biathlon and
hockey are 'women', skating and skiing are 'ladies'.
See
http://www.vancouver2010.com/

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John Dean
Oxford

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 26 Feb 2010 12:20 GMT
>Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
>a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
>ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...

He is using the official names of the events.
Today's (26th) events for females:
http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-schedule-results/

   9:00  - Curling - Women's Bronze Medal Game
   10:00 - Alpine Skiing - Ladies' Slalom 1st Run
   10:00 - Snowboard - Ladies' PGS Qualification
                       Medal Event
   12:15 - Snowboard - Ladies' PGS 1/8 Finals
   12:51 - Snowboard - Ladies' PGS Quarterfinals
   13:09 - Snowboard - Ladies' PGS Semifinals
   13:20* - Speed Skating - Ladies' Team Pursuit Quarterfinals
                            Medal Event
   13:30 - Alpine Skiing - Ladies' Slalom 2nd Run
                           Medal Event
   13:31 - Snowboard - Ladies' PGS Finals
   15:00 - Curling - Women's Gold Medal Game
   18:14 - Short Track - Ladies' 1000 m Quarterfinals
                         Canada vs Slovakia
   18:52 - Short Track - Ladies' 1000 m Semifinals
                         Medal Event
   19:24 - Short Track - Ladies' 1000 m Finals
                         Medal Event

I would have expected the snowboarding events to be "womens" as the
sport is recent and was invented in the USA. There is no shortage of
mentions of "women's snowboarding" on the web. A quick scan through
Wikipedia articles suggests that snowboarders use "women's". I suspect
that the change to the "ladies'" designation came about when the
International Ski Federation (FIS) took control of Olympic snowboarding
events. The existing skiing events controlled by the FIS were labelled
Men's and Women's.

Competitive skiing originated in Europe. The use of "Ladies" rather than
"Women" would have been culturally normal. Skiing, along with many other
Olympic sports, was developed among the upper classes in Britain and
Europe. They were the people who had the leisure time and money to take
play sports. Upper class females were "ladies". Working class females
were "women".

There used to be a similar sporting distinction between Gentlemen and
Men. In cricket some players were "gentlemen" the others were "players".
The gentlemen were amateurs and the players were paid professionals.
This was not a distinction based on ability.

Curling originated in Scotland so we must look there for the origin of
the use of "women".

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

Opinicus - 26 Feb 2010 19:44 GMT
> >Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
> >a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
> >ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...

8<!

> Competitive skiing originated in Europe. The use of "Ladies" rather than
> "Women" would have been culturally normal. Skiing, along with many other
> Olympic sports, was developed among the upper classes in Britain and
> Europe. They were the people who had the leisure time and money to take
> play sports. Upper class females were "ladies". Working class females
> were "women".

That made me wonder about biathalon, which combines gliding around the
hills on skis with shooting at things with a rifle. I find only nine
Google references to "ladies' biathalon" but over 1,200 to "women's
biathalon".

From this we may deduce that a woman on skis is a lady unless she's
armed.

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Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 26 Feb 2010 19:56 GMT
>> >Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
>> >a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>From this we may deduce that a woman on skis is a lady unless she's
>armed.

But if a woman on skis is armed it would be wise to be very polite to
her.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.english.usage)

mm - 26 Feb 2010 21:35 GMT
>Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
>a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
>ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...

I think ladies don't play hockey.  

But they do have better breath.  
That's why they do so well on the breathalon.
Signature

Posters should say where they live, and for which area
they are asking questions. I was born and then lived in
Western Pa.   10 years
Indianapolis   7 years
Chicago          6 years
Brooklyn, NY 12 years
Baltimore       26 years

Princess Tiaamii - 28 Feb 2010 20:24 GMT
On Feb 26, 8:56 am, Opinicus <gez...@spamcop.net.which.is.not.invalid>
wrote:
> Watching the BBC's "Breakfast Show" commentary on the Winter Olympics
> a moment ago I realized that Charlie Stayt consistently says "women's
> ice hockey" but "ladies' figure skating"...
>
> --
> Bobhttp://www.kanyak.com

should all be Women's, as there are no events for Gentlemen....
 
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