Why 'trojan'?

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Patok - 27 Apr 2010 04:33 GMT

How did it happen, that the English word is 'trojan' instead of
'troyan'? The city was Troy, not Troj ! I can't find any info online on
what exactly made this form of the word the accepted one. (Just so you
know why I ask - in other languages it /is/ 'troyan', there is no 'dzh'
in sight.)

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musika - 27 Apr 2010 08:48 GMT

> How did it happen, that the English word is 'trojan' instead of
> 'troyan'? The city was Troy, not Troj ! I can't find any info online
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> You'd be crazy to e-mail me with the crazy. But leave the div alone.

Probably from Latin Trojanus, where the "j" would be an "i" sound. Then
becoming a spelling pronunciation.

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Ray
UK

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Odysseus - 29 Apr 2010 06:26 GMT

<snip>

> Probably from Latin Trojanus, where the "j" would be an "i" sound. Then
> becoming a spelling pronunciation.

I think that's right, part of the usual anglicization process; cf. Ajax
(Gk. Aias), Jesus (Gk. Iesous), Janus (hence January), Juno (June),
Julius (July & Jules, Julia &c.), Jacob (hence James), ... all of which
had a Y or I sound in Latin.

I wonder what Trojans are called in Spanish: is there a 'hard H' or a Y
sound in their version of the word? (FWIW my money would go on the
former, assuming it's spelt with a J.)

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Odysseus

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musika - 29 Apr 2010 09:30 GMT

> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Y sound in their version of the word? (FWIW my money would go on the
> former, assuming it's spelt with a J.)

My guess would be Troyanos (but only because of the singer of that name).

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Ray
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Luca - 29 Apr 2010 13:13 GMT

>> I wonder what Trojans are called in Spanish: is there a 'hard H' or a
>> Y sound in their version of the word? (FWIW my money would go on the
>> former, assuming it's spelt with a J.)
>
> My guess would be Troyanos (but only because of the singer of that name).

Yup. It's Troya and Troyano/-a. They've thus stuck to the Greek Troia
way of pronunciation.

BTW, "troja" is taken by another concept already.

Luca

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Patok - 30 Apr 2010 07:42 GMT

> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Julius (July & Jules, Julia &c.), Jacob (hence James), ... all of which
> had a Y or I sound in Latin.

That's definitely it. I feel so stupid now, not having thought of
it - all these examples are, of course, with 'y' in other languages. My
only attempt at excuse is that the 'y's are all at the beginning of
their respective words, while "trojan"'s 'y' is not, and I didn't
connect the dots.

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / April 2010

Why 'trojan'?