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Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2006Oxford English Dictionary OED supports U.S. origin of Nazi salute !!!!
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth. http://rexcurry.net/pledgesalute.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." The Chambers Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not meant to be historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. >"Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." Golly! > A mnemonic device is the swastika. Double golly. >Although the swastika was an ancient symbol Thrice gollied.  SignatureJames Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk The Silent Vulcan trilogy, starting with 'The Temple of the Winds', on BBC7 Sundays 1840. > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thrice gollied. Are you allowed to say golly? Weren't some gollies forced to be removed from a giftee shopee in Bromyard recently by order of iPlod? Will. > X-No-Archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thrice gollied. You think that's something? Wait until he thanks you for agreeing with him. SignatureBob Lieblich Who's been there Thanks to all for the kewl "Gollies!" and it great that Dr. Curry's work visibly excited you all three times over! It has schooled a lot of people, as attested by Bob Lieblich, who has been there, and who even to this day concedes so without dispute. Of course, when Bob does so, it is sort of embarrassing for him, as he just pops in to show that he still has no dispute of the work and simply posts poignant reminders for everyone. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth. http://rexcurry.net/pledgesalute.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." The Chambers Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not meant to be historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The OED also supports that fact. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. > Thanks to all for the kewl "Gollies!" and it great that Dr. Curry's > work visibly excited you all three times over! It has schooled a lot [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > show that he still has no dispute of the work and simply posts > poignant reminders for everyone. [...] OK, so I read your silly spam again. Just for the record, I the undersigned disagree with your oft-repeated remarks. On a point of etiquette, one does not refer to oneself as "Dr" in decent society. Cf Kissinger. SignatureM.G.Lyle. OK, so Mike, your silly spam was viewed again. Just for the record, you Mike did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work and you AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid you are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that you would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. Wow you are dense. On a point of etiquette, one does not do what Mike does in decent society. That is why the facts are always repeated to you to rub your nose in what you do, and to further humiliate you by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). Your stupid behavior is similar to that of Michael H. Standart, a self-confessed Curmudgeon. Mike is almost a new incarntion of the idiot known as the PPROFESSOR, but after seeing Mike's drivel and the downright brainless and infantile style of Mike H Standart's arguments, it is not convincing. The PPROFESSOR was a lot more intelligent then Mike H. Standart. Both Mikes are jealous because they have never made discoveries as amazing as Dr. Curry's. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> had it: > > Thanks to all for the kewl "Gollies!" and it great that Dr. Curry's > > work visibly excited you all three times over! It has schooled a lot [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > OK, so I read your silly spam again. Just for the record, I the > undersigned disagree with your oft-repeated remarks. Haven't we done this to death? Does the OP think we can't remember further back than a couple of weeks? > On a point of etiquette, one does not refer to oneself as "Dr" in decent > society. Cf Kissinger. I saw that Kissinger at a conference once. I didn't try a Nazi salute on him. SignatureDavid ===== replace usenet with the Omrud is correct that the respondents to the original post have done their concessions to death, just for the record. Everyone can remember further back then a couple of weeks to how they made the same concession of the facts before in the same way. Just for the record, they did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work and they AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid they are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that they would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. That is why the facts are always repeated to them to rub their noses in what they do, and to further humiliate them by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). At least Omrud realizes that they have conceded Dr. Curry's work again. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. <rexy@ij.net> had it: > Omrud is correct Thank you for conceding that I am correct. SignatureDavid ===== replace usenet with the And thank you for conceding that Dr. Curry is correct. Omrud is correct that the respondents to the original post have done their concessions to death, just for the record. Everyone can remember further back then a couple of weeks to how they made the same concession of the facts before in the same way. Just for the record, they did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work and they AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid they are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that they would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. That is why the facts are always repeated to them to rub their noses in what they do, and to further humiliate them by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). At least Omrud realizes that they have conceded Dr. Curry's work again. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. Thanks to all for the kewl "Gollies!" and it great that Dr. Curry's work visibly excited you all three times over! It has schooled a lot of people, as attested by Bob Lieblich, who has been there, and who even to this day concedes so without dispute. Of course, when Bob does so, it is sort of embarrassing for him, as he just pops in to show that he still has no dispute of the work and simply posts poignant reminders for everyone. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early Pledge of Allegiance (to the flag) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth. http://rexcurry.net/pledgesalute.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." The Chambers Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not meant to be historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The OED also supports that fact. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. rexy@ij.net filted: >Thanks to all for the kewl "Gollies!" How many more do you need for your Robertson's pin?...r SignatureWe are the parents our people warned us about. OK, R H Draney, how many more do you need for your Robertson's pin? so Draney, your silly spam was viewed again. Just for the record, you Draney did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work and you AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid you are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that you would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. Wow you and Mike are dense. That is why the facts are always repeated to you to rub your nose in what you do, and to further humiliate you by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). Both Draney & Mike are so stupid that they did not know that the early pledge used a straight-armed salute until they were schooled by Dr. Curry's work. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. > OK, R H Draney, how many more do you need for your Robertson's pin? so > Draney, your silly spam was viewed again. Just for the record, you [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > pledge used a straight-armed salute until they were schooled by Dr. > Curry's work. [oft-repeated, read-but-now-forgotten spew of so-what snipped] Basically, dude, who gives a f.ck? Will. [oft-repeated, read-but-now-forgotten spew of Will's concession speech snipped] Basically, Will dude, who gives a f.ck about your conceding that Dr. Curry is correct anyway, in that you are ignorant? Just for the record, Will, you did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work and you AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid you are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that you would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. You have a standing agreement that everytime you respond that way it is your method of admitting that you do not dispute the discoveries. That is why the facts are always repeated to you to rub your nose in what you do, and to further humiliate you by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). Will is so stupid that they did not know that the early pledge used a straight-armed salute until they were schooled by Dr. Curry's work. The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. > [oft-repeated, read-but-now-forgotten spew of Will's concession speech > snipped] > > Basically, Will dude, who gives a f.ck about your conceding that Dr. > Curry is correct anyway, in that you are ignorant? I wasn't conceding anything. Do you suffer from reading comprehension problems? > Just for the record, Will, you did not disagree with Dr. Curry's work > and you AGAIN > demonstrated to everyone how stupid you are by not making a single > factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact > that you would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish > remarks. I wasn't publicly humiliated. I really, really don't give a f.ck about who invented the straight arm salute. It's so completely, piddllingly unimportant. >You have a standing agreement that everytime you respond that I doubt there's much point in mentioning to you that everytime is ignorant - it's "every time". > way it is your method of admitting that you do not dispute the > discoveries. That is why the facts are always repeated to you to rub > your nose in what you do, and to further humiliate you by showing > everyone again what you concede factually (below). I must have missed the exchange where I agreed to something, never mind a "standing agreement". But just to put what passes for your mind at rest, I agreed to no such thing. > Will is so stupid that they did not know that the early pledge used a > straight-armed salute until they were schooled by Dr. Curry's work. Rexy is so stupid that it doesn't know that Will is a singular entity, thus requiring a singular pronoun. Actually, my money would be on rexy being a rather poorly designed Turing machine. [repeated irrelevant drivel snipped] Will. Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> had it: > > [oft-repeated, read-but-now-forgotten spew of Will's concession speech > > snipped] [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I wasn't conceding anything. Do you suffer from reading comprehension > problems? It's a concession-bot. Don't bother trying to reason with it - it will only reply thanking you for agreeing with it. SignatureDavid ===== replace usenet with the > Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It's a concession-bot. Don't bother trying to reason with it - it > will only reply thanking you for agreeing with it. Have you ever hung out in rec.music.classical? There's an extraordinary poster there called David Tholen (he's also to be found in astronomy, marching band and OS/2 groups) who has mastered the art of mimicing a bot. Quite amusing, if you like your bandwidth broad. Will. Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> had it: > > Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in astronomy, marching band and OS/2 groups) who has mastered the art > of mimicing a bot. Quite amusing, if you like your bandwidth broad. I think I have, but it was many years ago. I will take a look - thanks. SignatureDavid ===== replace usenet with the Will, you have conceded anything. Do you suffer from reading comprehension problems? And no one really, really gives a f.ck about your ignorance. This is a group for discussing english usage and that includes the mythical phrase "Roman salute." Your childish comments are so completely, piddllingly unimportant. Will is so stupid that Will didn't know about the history of the flag mentioned in the original post until he was schooled by Dr. Curry's work. [Will's repeated irrelevant drivel snipped along with read-but-now-forgotten spew of Will's concession speech snipped] you AGAIN demonstrated to everyone how stupid you are by not making a single factual remark even after being humiliated in public about the fact that you would respond in exactly that way, with evasive childish remarks. You have a standing agreement that everytime you respond that way it is your method of admitting that you do not dispute the discoveries. That is why the facts are always repeated to you to rub your nose in what you do, and to further humiliate you by showing everyone again what you concede factually (below). Will is another example of the tragedy of government schools. People who attended government schools in the USA are shocked to learn of the new discoveries, and they have difficulty responding in a rational manner. They are humiliated and embarrassed that they have been kept ignorant by government schools and even lied to while being led in robotic chanting for 12 years. The stereotypical response involves a state of denial where the respondent can formulate no factual dispute (a mental block-out of the factual history) and only childish insults that evade the topic altogether. It shows how conditioned US citizens are by the years of robotic chanting. Some US citizens are not able to face the reality of the history of the pledge. The pledge has become an example of how dangerous government schools are. The pledge is a primary justification for ending government schools. As the saying goes "remove the pledge from the flag, the flag from the schools, and the schools from government." The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) supports Dr. Rex Curry's discovery that the Nazi salute originated in the United States. Dr. Curry showed that the USA's early pledge of allegiance to the flag (1892) used a straight-arm salute and it was the source of the salute of the monstrous National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazis). The salute of German Socialists has sometimes been labeled an "ancient Roman salute." Dr. Curry helped to establish that it was not an ancient Roman salute, and that the "ancient Roman salute" is a modern myth that grew during and after the lives of Edward Bellamy (1850-1898) and Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html The earliest OED reference to "Roman salute" is a 1959 reference to the Chambers's Encyclopedia. The OED states: "Chambers's Encycl. XII. 173/2 Special forms of salute, the clenched fist salute of the Communists, the 'Roman salute' of the Fascists and the Hitler salute, have been a feature of modern political life." Chambers's Encyclopedia puts the Roman reference in quotation marks, as if to indicate that it is the "so-called" Roman salute and that the phrase is not historically accurate. The Chambers Encyclopedia thus supports Dr. Curry's discoveries. An earlier OED reference exists for "raised-arm salute" in a 1943 reference to a David Gascoyne poem. The poem states, "...the centurions wear riding-boots, Black shirts and badges and peaked caps, Greet one another with raised-arm salutes...." Gascoyne did not use the term "Roman salute," and that may suggest that the gesture was not widely known by that name at that time. Gascoyne's poem shows how the Roman salute myth spread. Gascoyne was a surrealist and his poem mixes images from a Roman crucifixion with images under the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Gascoyne had joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1936 and broadcast some radio talks for the Barcelona-based propaganda ministry. However, he soon became disillusioned and left the party. Dr. Curry knows of two other uses of "Roman salute" that pre-date the OED reference. The earliest of the two uses is 1937, and the other is 1938, and the references are by different authors. Even the author of the Pledge of Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, specifically described how he created the salute and he did not base it on any Roman salute myth. Bellamy never used the term "Roman salute" in his life, and he did not even know of such a myth as the myth did not exist at that time, as shown by Dr. Curry. The myth developed from the Pledge. The OED also supports those facts. The original Pledge of Allegiance began with a military salute that then stretched out toward the flag. Historic photographs are at http://rexcurry.net/pledge2.html and at http://rexcurry.net/pledge_military.html In actual use, the second part of the gesture was performed with a straight arm and palm down by children extending the military salute while perfunctorily performing the forced ritual chanting. Professor Curry showed that, due to the way that both gestures were used sequentially in the pledge, the military salute led to the hard, stylized salute of German socialists. The Nazi salute is an extended military salute via the pledge. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-pledge.html Francis Bellamy (author of the "Pledge of Allegiance") and Edward Bellamy (author of the novel "Looking Backward") and Charles Bellamy (author of "A Moment of Madness") and Frederick Bellamy (who introduced Edward to socialistic "Fourierism") were socialists. Edward, Charles and Frederick were brothers, and Francis was their cousin. Francis and Edward were both self-proclaimed National Socialists and they supported the "Nationalism" movement in the USA, the "Nationalist" magazine, and the "Nationalist Educational Association." They wanted to nationalize everything and they wanted all of society to ape the military and they touted "military socialism" and the "industrial army." Edward inspired the "Nationalist Party" (in the USA) and their dogma influenced socialists worldwide (including Germany) via "Nationalist Clubs." http://rexcurry.net/bellamy-edward-german-connections.html The Pledge was the origin of the Nazi salute. "Nazi" means "National Socialist German Workers' Party." A mnemonic device is the swastika. Although the swastika was an ancient symbol, Professor Curry discovered that it was also used sometimes by German National Socialists to represent "S" letters for their "socialism." Curry changed the way that people view the symbol of the horrid National Socialist German Workers' Party. Hitler altered his own signature to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist" and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens. http://rexcurry.net/book1a1contents-swastika.html The Roman salute myth is still repeated in modern efforts to cover-up Dr. Curry's discoveries about the Pledge's poisonous pedigree. The Bellamys promoted a government takeover of schools. When the government granted their wish, the government schools imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The schools mandated the robotic chanting of the pledge with the Nazi-style salute and persecuted and expelled children who would not comply, arrested parents, and even took children from parents on allegations of "unfit parenting." The USA still follows similar anti libertarian policies promoted by the Bellamys. Many socialist Bellamy policies caused the USA's big, expensive and oppressive government and its growing police-state. The Pledge still exists along with laws mandating that teachers lead the robotic pledge chanting every day for twelve years of each child's life (though the salute was altered). The government still owns and operates schools, including the same schools that imposed segregation by law and taught racism as official government policy. The U.S. practice of imposing segregation by law in government schools and teaching racism as official policy even outlasted the Mussolini-Hitler by over 15 years. After segregation in government's schools ended, the Bellamy legacy caused more police-state racism of forced busing that destroyed communities and neighborhoods and deepened hostilities. Those schools still exist. Infants are given social security numbers that track and tax them for life. Government schools demand the numbers for enrollment. > Will, you have conceded anything. If by "anything" you mean "nothing", then yes. > Do you suffer from reading > comprehension > problems? If I do, they are as a mote in my eye to the f.cking great industrial sawmill in yours. > And no one really, really gives a f.ck about your ignorance. So why bring it up? > This is a group for discussing english usage and that includes the > mythical phrase "Roman salute." But you aren't "discussing" it - you're merely regurgitating the same old shite. It's like having a conversation with a voice-mail recording. And what's "mythical" about it? In what "myth" does it occur? Last I heard, the Roman Empire was an historical reality. > Your childish comments are so completely, piddllingly unimportant. > Will is so stupid that Will didn't know about the history of the flag > mentioned in the original post until he was schooled by Dr. Curry's > work. [Will's repeated irrelevant drivel snipped along with > read-but-now-forgotten spew of Will's concession speech > snipped] Read my lips: I don't give a flying f.ck about the "history of the flag". Comprende? > Will is another example of the tragedy of government schools. I didn't attend a "government school", whatever that is. For my sins, I was educated in at public school. > People > who attended government schools in the USA That's public school in the UK. In the USA, they're called private schools. So you're pretty well wrong on all possible counts. Except whatever it is you're saying about "the flag", or "the salute", or whatever it is, because (vide supra) I seriously couldn't care less about it, so I have absolutely no idea whether you're wrong about whatever it is that you're alleging, or asserting. And I have no intention of trying to find out. Given your track record with regard to me personally, I'd say the odds were quite short on your being completely off-beam. [steaming pile of dung removed for reasons of public health] > Will <billrigby@hotmail.com> had it: [...] > > Have you ever hung out in rec.music.classical? There's an > > extraordinary poster there called David Tholen (he's also to be found [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think I have, but it was many years ago. I will take a look - > thanks. I've just been there and Tholen seems to be lying low. He was a bit like PG - his work rate was enormous, but unlike her, he was reliably accurate (if maniacally obsessed with being "on topic") Will. |
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