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Discussion Groups / English Usage / December 2006"Auchinachie"
Recently I have been reading some information about the surname "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. How is it pronounced? As a business name (Auchinachie Plumbing) one usually hears [A 'hAn @ hi:], although I went to a baseball game at which they called it [ow 'hAn @ hi:], with the first two letters pronounced in the French manner. But to use the "cot" or "caught" vowel in the second syllable when the spelling is clearly <in> seems like an intrusion from French as well. The nasal vowel /E~/ of that language is occasionally Anglicized to [An], as in "lingerie". daniel mcgrath  SignatureDaniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende": for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com" Developmentally disabled; has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder), Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, & periodic bouts of depression. [This signature is under construction.] > Recently I have been reading some information about the surname > "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. > > How is it pronounced? I don't know this name, but the name Auchincloss, belonging to a well-known American family, rhymes with "talk in floss". Harlan Messinger filted: >> Recently I have been reading some information about the surname >> "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I don't know this name, but the name Auchincloss, belonging to a >well-known American family, rhymes with "talk in floss". Isn't the similar name "Auchinleck" pronounced "Affleck", or did I dream it?...r SignatureIt's the crack on the wall and the stain on the cup that gets to you in the very end...every cat has its fall when it runs out of luck, so you can do with a touch of zen...cause when you're screwed, you're screwed...and when it's blue, it's blue. Daniel al-Autistiqui <govende30@hotmail.invalid> had it: > Recently I have been reading some information about the surname > "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The nasal vowel /E~/ of that language is occasionally Anglicized to > [An], as in "lingerie". My Northern English guess is "ocky-nacky" where both the k sounds are quite soft, as in loch. SignatureDavid ===== replace usenet with the > Recently I have been reading some information about the surname > "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > which they called it [ow 'hAn @ hi:], with the first two letters > pronounced in the French manner. This is just a guess, but my first reaction to such a spelling would be to pronounce it like O'Henahy, with perhaps a slight gutturalisation of the first H. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer reliably receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address still has about 2 months of life left. In alt.usage.english Daniel al-Autistiqui <govende30@hotmail.invalid> wrote: } Recently I have been reading some information about the surname } "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. } } How is it pronounced? As a business name (Auchinachie Plumbing) one } usually hears [A 'hAn @ hi:], although I went to a baseball game at } which they called it [ow 'hAn @ hi:], with the first two letters } pronounced in the French manner. ... Seems like a good name for a dentist if it's like "Ouch & Ache". -- rjv Daniel al-Autistiqui: > Recently I have been reading some information about the surname > "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. > > How is it pronounced? Much like other <auchin->s, I spose. Can't say I've heard that particular name before, but seeing it written I doubt I'd hesitate: /Ox@n'&xi/. (Oor local fitba club's cried Auchinleck Talbot.) SignatureJock >Daniel al-Autistiqui: > >> Recently I have been reading some information about the surname >> "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. >> >> How is it pronounced? It's kind of amazing that everyone who responded to my original post seemed to think that the "goal" of it was to answer this short question. > Much like other <auchin->s, I spose. Can't say I've heard >that particular name before, but seeing it written I doubt >I'd hesitate: /Ox@n'&xi/. That and the other pronunciations mentioned in this thread might be the ways that some bearers of the name pronounce it. But, as I originally said, there is a local business around here called Auchinachie Plumbing, and that is how I am familiar with the name. As far as I can tell, the business name is always advertised as [A 'hAn @ hi:] (ah-HONNA-hee), and people who have resided in the Binghamton area for a long time seem to never say it any other way except by occasionally changing the first vowel sound: some will say "aw-HONNA-hee" (with <au> pronounced the way it is in lots of English words, including "autism") or "oh" etc. (in the French manner, rhyming the first syllable with "go"), or simply reduce the vowel to a schwa. Thus, one *always* hears [h] for both of the <ch> digraphs. The main stress is *always* on the second syllable, and for some reason the vowel heard in that syllable is none other than the [A] of "father", "cot", and "don", despite the use of orthographic <i>, for which that pronunciation is very unusual. When I first heard the name pronounced I thought there might have been some connection with French (cf. "lingerie"). Are there other Scottish names in which <i> is pronounced [A]? At least the name seems to exist with a variant spelling <Auchanachie> that fits the pronunciation better. However, I just did a Google search and found that "Auchinachie" returned 935 hits, while "Auchanachie" returned only 362 hits. daniel mcgrath SignatureDaniel Gerard McGrath, a/k/a "Govende": for e-mail replace "invalid" with "com" Developmentally disabled; has Autism (Pervasive Developmental Disorder), Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, & periodic bouts of depression. [This signature is under construction.] >Recently I have been reading some information about the surname >"Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >daniel mcgrath The name appears to be Scottish Gaelic at first glance but doesn't make much sense. The "auch" bit would be pronounced to rhyme with "loch". The "in", in my view should be "an" the definite article. The "ch" in "achie" is similar to that in "loch" but not exactly. "Achie" should be spelled "achaidh" and is the genitive of "achadh" a field. so the name, as it stands, means "field of the field" which makes little sense. SignatureAlasdair (Native Scots Gaelic speaker) >> Recently I have been reading some information about the surname >> "Auchinachie". The name is apparently of a Scottish origin. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > field. so the name, as it stands, means "field of the field" which > makes little sense. Is that the fieldfield next to the hillhillhill? SignatureJohn Dean Oxford In alt.usage.english, John Dean wrote: [...] >> "Achie" should be spelled "achaidh" and is the genitive of "achadh" a >> field. so the name, as it stands, means "field of the field" which >> makes little sense. > >Is that the fieldfield next to the hillhillhill? Where the hound-hounds hunt Icelandic hares? SignatureV Houghmagandie! In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: >Alasdair >(Native Scots Gaelic speaker) Good man! There are only 60,000 of you left, apparently (about the same as the tally for Cree, Inuktitut, Gawri and Khakas). SignatureV > In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > V I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as slaves. Is that truth? DV Dusan Vukotic <dusan.vukotic@gmail.com> had it: > > In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as > slaves. Is that truth? No. And in any case, all but one or two colonies were British Colonies (not English) having come into existence after England and Scotland were united into a single country. Slavery had been illegal under English law since well before that. I'm not saying that the English/Scottish aristocracy weren't beastly to the Scottish peasants. Crofting was a sort of enforced labour, but that's not the same thing. SignatureDavid ===== [sci.lang chopped] >Dusan Vukotic <dusan.vukotic@gmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Scotland were united into a single country. Slavery had been illegal >under English law since well before that. In fact all of the mainland colonies except Georgia were founded well before the Union. They were *English* colonies, and the Scots were excluded from trade with them. That is what led to the Darien scheme; free trade with the colonies was the main incentive held out to the Scots to agree to the Union. >I'm not saying that the English/Scottish aristocracy weren't beastly >to the Scottish peasants. Crofting was a sort of enforced labour, >but that's not the same thing. As to slavery in Scotland, see http://home.freeuk.net/don-aitken/emay3v025.html towards the end. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" Don Aitken <don-aitken@freeuk.com> had it: > [sci.lang chopped] > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > free trade with the colonies was the main incentive held out to the > Scots to agree to the Union. Sorry, I was thinking about the accession of James 6th/1st - I accept that this is not the same as the Union of Scotland and England. SignatureDavid ===== > Dusan Vukotic <dusan.vukotic@gmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > to the Scottish peasants. Crofting was a sort of enforced labour, > but that's not the same thing. OK. It is not the truth. Thanks David! DV In alt.usage.english, Dusan Vukotic wrote: >> Good man! There are only 60,000 of you left, apparently (about the same >> as the tally for Cree, Inuktitut, Gawri and Khakas). >I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as >slaves. Is that truth? I'd like to say yes but I see that this is cross-posted to sci.lang (sorry about that), so I'd better say no. SignatureV >> In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as >slaves. Is that truth? No. Some people who had been convicted of crimes were sentenced to be "transported". Instead of being executed (put to death) they were sent to "penal colonies". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_transportation Penal transportation was the deporting of convicted criminals to a penal colony, such as in Australia, typically from countries such as the United Kingdom (then including Ireland). A sentence of transportation could apply for life or for a specific period of time. The penal system required the convicts to work, either on government projects (road construction, building works, mining, etc) or assigned to free individuals as a source of unpaid labour. Women were expected to work as domestic servants and farm labourers. A convict who had served part of his time might apply for a ticket of leave permitting some prescribed freedoms. This enabled some convicts to resume a more normal life, to marry and raise a family, and a few to contribute to the further development of the colonies. ... Transportation punished both major and petty crimes in Britain and Ireland from the 17th century until well into the 19th century. At the time it was seen as a more humane alternative to execution, which would most likely have been the sentence handed down to many of those who were transported, if transportation hadn't been introduced. The British colonies in North America received transported British criminals in the 17th and 18th centuries, the biggest penal colony being Georgia which was opened in 1732. The American Revolutionary War brought an end to that means of disposal, and the British Government was forced to look elsewhere. ... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > >> In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > "transported". Instead of being executed (put to death) they were > sent to "penal colonies". Right. But in general, it wasn't for being Scottish. SignatureDavid ===== > Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: [...] > > >I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as > > >slaves. Is that truth? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Right. But in general, it wasn't for being Scottish. As a colonial of Scots-Irish extraction, I feel I can safely let Dusan know one of the many comic facts about the United Kingdom. This is that anything embarrassing in the histories of the Celtic nations is, if remotely possible, blamed on the English. The English, not being overburdened with a knowledge of history, don't usually mind. SignatureMike. >> Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > remotely possible, blamed on the English. The English, not being > overburdened with a knowledge of history, don't usually mind. I have been trying to find the words for a day or two, and think this may be an idea that got picked up as "slavery". I haven't researched the overall implications, but it seems to me that many people were taken from debtors prisons and sold as bond-servants, or indentured labor, and maybe some petty criminals got out of going to jail by promising to work off their debt to society. Anyway, I understand that many of the more prosperous colonialists employed indentured servants (maybe home grown as well as imported), until the debt was paid off. That "bond-servants" term could be confusing, considering the biblical description of Hagar and Ishmael's status. In a slave-holding society such as that of the Hebrews and Romans, there were different categories of slaves. Maybe Evan, Bob, or others who have more depth of study can explain. There was the jubilee, but I don't know if there were varying durations of servitude among the Hebrews. >Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Right. But in general, it wasn't for being Scottish. Quite. For example my great-great-grandfather went from Scotland to Australia voluntarily. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [follow-up set to AUE only] In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote: >On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:45:34 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> >>Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> had it: >>> On 26 Dec 2006 05:50:32 -0800, "Dusan Vukotic" >>> >I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as >>> >slaves. Is that truth? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Quite. For example my great-great-grandfather went from Scotland to >Australia voluntarily. The Scots were far less likely to be transported than the English, Irish and Welsh. I looked into this a year or three ago (godnose why) and my memory tells me that the likelihood of transportation for equivalent crimes was greatest if you were English, then Irish, then Welsh, then - a long gap - Scottish. There was a simple explanation for the comparative leniency of the Scottish judges, but I've forgotten it. SignatureV >> In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as >slaves. Is that truth? Chance would be a fine thing. Judging by the current and possible future composition of the British Cabinet, the Scottish have been enslaving the rest of the British for years. SignatureRobin Herts, England > >> In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Robin > Herts, England Former Yugoslavia seemed to be a copy of the British Empire. Croats were occupying the highest positions inside the YU Government for decades but, nevertheless, they were the main acters in the process of dissolution of that country. Maybe the English could learn something essential from the poor destiny of Yugoslavia. DV Surya pravi: > Former Yugoslavia seemed to be a copy of the British Empire. Croats > were occupying the highest positions inside the YU Government for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > DV Ajde Dušane, bre, ne piši gluposti. It is always good to blame the other, isn't it? It was the Slovenes who were the main acters, not Croats, so if you want to blame someone else instead of yourselves, blame the Slovenes. And if you want to learn why there was such a drive for independence in Slovenia, it would be better for you to pick up some books about the history of ex-YU, for instance from 70's onward, from various perspectives (political, social, economical, etc...) Besides this is completely off-topic. > Surya pravi: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Besides this is completely off-topic. Croats or Slovenes, quite the same! It is like Scots and Welshs in Great Britain ((-; DV > Besides this is completely off-topic. Yes it is... and I do not know how it comes on sci.lang at all; I thought it was on alt.usage.english. My apology. DV > Surya pravi: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Besides this is completely off-topic. I thought "Ajde Dušane, bre, ne piši gluposti." was definitely on-topic. :-) pjk > > Surya pravi: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > pjk Finally, you said something clever! ((-; DV > I thought "Ajde Dušane, bre, ne piši gluposti." was definitely on-topic. :-) In fact, "ne piši gluposti" is probably one of the most frequently-met with phrases here, albeit usually expressed in English. SignatureRob Bannister > >> In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > future composition of the British Cabinet, the Scottish have been > enslaving the rest of the British for years. Serves you damn right, too. > > In alt.usage.english, Alasdair wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I heard that the English used to sell the Scots to the Colonies as > slaves. Is that truth? Well, not exactly slaves, but indentured servants. |
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