 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Flux
I had to sweat a copper pipe today in order to install a new tap. Had to use flux with solder and a blow torch. I suppose the use of the word flux meaning to flow relates to the heated solder flowing into the joint coated with flux. This might help. See 5b: ----- FLUX 5 a : a substance used to promote fusion (as by removing impurities) especially of metals or minerals b : a substance (as rosin or borax) applied to surfaces to be joined by soldering, brazing, or welding just prior to or during the operation to clean and free them from oxide and promote their union c : a substance (as borax) added in glassmaking for promoting vitrification d or flux oil : a viscous nonvolatile petroleum fraction used to soften asphalt 6 : a fusible glass used as a base for enamels; also : an easily fusible enamel used as a ground for enamel painting http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com ----- Marius Hancu > I had to sweat a copper pipe today > in order to install a new tap. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to flow relates to the heated solder flowing into the joint > coated with flux. Flux acts like wax in the "lost wax" method of bronze casting it draws the solder in as it is consumed. >I had to sweat a copper pipe today >in order to install a new tap. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to flow relates to the heated solder flowing into the joint >coated with flux. Yes, it does. Flux is a material that breaks down the barrier on a metal surface and as a result allows the solder (in this case) to 'wet' the metal pipe. This promotes the solder first running over the pipe's surface and then adhering to it in perfect metal-to-metal contact upon solidifying, for a watertight joint.  SignaturePaul Noli cachinare - the canary is water-tight. Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> had it: > >I had to sweat a copper pipe today > >in order to install a new tap. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > surface and then adhering to it in perfect metal-to-metal contact upon > solidifying, for a watertight joint. Doesn't all solder come impregnated with flux these days? I don't think I've seen any flux since the early 60s, in my grandad's workshop, where he had a the biggest bar of solder I have yet encountered - about the size of a very large pencil. It was applied with the assistance of a blowtorch. SignatureDavid ===== > Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Doesn't all solder come impregnated with flux these days? Only for electronics work. Plumbers still use flux, > I don't > think I've seen any flux since the early 60s, in my grandad's > workshop, where he had a the biggest bar of solder I have yet > encountered - about the size of a very large pencil. It was applied > with the assistance of a blowtorch. Plumbers use a burner with propane (or gasoline lang ago) that sucks in atmospheric air. Is this also called a blowtorch, or is blowtorch used exclusively for oxy/acetylene torches with an external oxygen supply? Jan The J. J. Lodder entity posted thusly: >> Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Only for electronics work. >Plumbers still use flux, So does anyone using what is known as "silver solder". >> I don't >> think I've seen any flux since the early 60s, in my grandad's [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >or is blowtorch used exclusively for oxy/acetylene torches >with an external oxygen supply? A blowtorch, in my neck of the woods (Canada) is a gasoline- or kerosene-fired thingy with a pressurized container for the air (with pump), that looks something like this: http://gallerydriver.com/Art/Blowtorch,%202005_th.jpg or like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowlamp A burner with a propane tank attached is known as a "propane torch", and though some brands may be marketed as a blowtorch, we would never use the term in everyday speech. An oxy/acetylene torch is known as a "welding torch" or "cutting torch", depending on the type of flame it produces and its purpose. I believe that US usage is similar. >>Only for electronics work. >>Plumbers still use flux, > >So does anyone using what is known as "silver solder". I have some. I use it - oddly enough - when soldering silver. Just the thing to have around when re-soldering those little round loops that pull open on necklaces. Just in case my description isn't clear: http://tinyurl.com/ykjtqy With grandchildren around, my wife's necklaces seem to need this from time to time. >>Is this also called a blowtorch, >>or is blowtorch used exclusively for oxy/acetylene torches [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >I believe that US usage is similar. Yes, a real "blowtorch" is a thing about the size of a coffee pot, and has a tank attached. I'd have no use for one. However, I do have a re-fillable "mini-blowtorch" that is about the size of a cigar and is fueled by butane...the same butane that you use in a cigarette lighter. It provides a few minutes of flame; enough to do small repairs. Whether or not it's properly called a "blowtorch", if you go to a store and ask for a "mini-blowtorch" the clerk will understand you. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL The Tony Cooper entity posted thusly: >>>Only for electronics work. >>>Plumbers still use flux, [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >Whether or not it's properly called a "blowtorch", if you go to a >store and ask for a "mini-blowtorch" the clerk will understand you. RIght, and for all I know, the thing could be "properly" called a blowtorch. It's just that I would never call it that, nor, I suspect, would most Canadians over the age of about 30. > The Tony Cooper entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > blowtorch. It's just that I would never call it that, nor, I suspect, > would most Canadians over the age of about 30. Ahem, being both I would call it a blowtorch. Well, I'd more likely call it a cigarette lighter. I think I know what Tony is talking about and it really is more of a miniture blowtorch. It is not what we would call a propane torch. My local pub has some on sale along with some socket wrenchs. I always thought of them as muscular cigarette lighters. I never considered them as acutally being useful for plumbing. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada >I think I know what Tony is talking about and it really is more of a >miniture blowtorch. It is not what we would call a propane torch. > >My local pub has some on sale along with some socket wrenchs. I always >thought of them as muscular cigarette lighters. I never considered >them as acutally being useful for plumbing. My nose is far too large to try one of these as a cigarette lighter. The device that I've described shoots a focussable (not quite the word I want) flame about 3". See: http://www.autobarn.net/solder-it-butane-protorch-pt200.html for a similar device, but mine was cheaper (about $10) and is smaller. Note the size and flame heat specifications on the page. I wouldn't use it for plumbing, although it could be used to "sweat" copper fittings. It's really designed for small projects. The fuel is butane, not propane. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >I think I know what Tony is talking about and it really is more of a > >miniture blowtorch. It is not what we would call a propane torch. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > The fuel is butane, not propane. That is definately not what I was thinking of but I would call it a blowtorch. Perhaps if you moved from cigarettes to cigars? The last time I looked you could get a good Cuban for about $45 and I alway found it took a long time to get one to light. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > >I think I know what Tony is talking about and it really is more of a > >miniture blowtorch. It is not what we would call a propane torch. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I wouldn't use it for plumbing, although it could be used to "sweat" > copper fittings. It's really designed for small projects. Mine looks like the top one in <http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/advanced_search_result.php?osCsid=d3b5 ded5a6ecd82b75296bb2af1b8dda&keywords=torch&osCsid=d3b5ded5a6ecd82b75296 bb2af1b8dda&x=0&y=0> Still smaller and cheaper. Over here you find them occasionally on special offer at DIY stores for a few euros. Definitely unsuitable for plumbing, but quite useful for small repairs. Jewelry, antique brass, etc. Perhaps we should declare DIY to be as on-topic as cooking? Jan The John Kane entity posted thusly: >> The Tony Cooper entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >thought of them as muscular cigarette lighters. I never considered >them as acutally being useful for plumbing. Huh? Are the socket wrenches on shelves alongside the dart board? Perhaps near the beer taps? I don't think I've ever seen wrenches for sale in a pub. >The John Kane entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >Perhaps near the beer taps? I don't think I've ever seen wrenches for >sale in a pub. Wenches can be had for a couple of gin and tonics. irwell wrote, in <nvuuj25rjd5jvbdvgv7rtnf6buq6ngs47u@4ax.com> on Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:00:35 -0700: > >Huh? Are the socket wrenches on shelves alongside the dart board? > >Perhaps near the beer taps? I don't think I've ever seen wrenches for > >sale in a pub. > > > Wenches can be had for a couple of gin and tonics. About fifty years ago someone in Sandakan, North Borneo (now known as Sabah) lent me a copy of something called The Calcutta Light Horse Song Book in which there was what was alleged to be an accurate transcript of part of some military manual on the operation, care and maintenance of barrage balloons except that every occurrence of winch had been changed to wench. I wish I could remember more than a couple of snatches now - 'grease the wench thoroughly', 'test all apertures for wear' is all that I can recall. SignatureNick Spalding [snip] >> Huh? Are the socket wrenches on shelves alongside the dart board? >> Perhaps near the beer taps? I don't think I've ever seen wrenches for >> sale in a pub. >> > Wenches can be had for a couple of gin and tonics. Nah, they're more your foaming flagon of ale, wenches. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > >The John Kane entity posted thusly: > > [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > > Wenches can be had for a couple of gin and tonics. I think then that the wenchs and the wrenchs cost about the same amount. I'll check one or the other this evening. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada > The John Kane entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > Perhaps near the beer taps? I don't think I've ever seen wrenches for > sale in a pub. Behind the bar, not too far from the taps. This is the first time I have ever seen such a thing too. The dart board is upstairs. It is a somewhat unusual pub. John Kane, Kingston ON Canada J. J. Lodder (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message <1hnnpde.tj38q2s3v9b1N@de-ster.xs4all.nl>: >> Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Jan There's an important distinction between the two types of solder. "Electronic" solder which comes with impregnated flux, is about 60% tin and 40% lead. These particular proportions give minimum melting point (183°C) and a rapid change from liquid to solid, allowing a low-powered iron to be used and minimum risk of dry joints. Plumbers' solder has the reverse proportions - 60% lead and 40% tin. In the first place that mix is cheaper. The melting point is higher so more powerful tools are needed to melt it, but it then has a longer transition from liquid back to solid, where the lead is crystallising out of the mix, enabling the joint to be "worked" into position before the entire mass of solder sets solid. SignatureWarning: keel away from child for hot bulb Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply On 24 Oct 2006, Prai Jei wrote > There's an important distinction between the two types of > solder. > > "Electronic" solder which comes with impregnated flux, is about > 60% tin and 40% lead. You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's getting hard to source in these here parts. The electronics techs I know have a way of stockpiling contraband supplies -- the non-lead stuff is, apparenty, crap to work with -- but they're pretty protective of their sources. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's getting hard >to source in these here parts. Try a stained glass supplier. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ On 25 Oct 2006, Wood Avens wrote >> You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's >> getting hard to source in these here parts. > > Try a stained glass supplier. Thanks -- I'll remember that, and pass the hint on. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >>You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's getting hard >>to source in these here parts. > >Try a stained glass supplier. Oy! (Wouldn't a glass supplier who's changed his shirt do just as well?) -- THE "If you or I use a word inappropriately, that's an error. If a newspaper uses a word inappropriately, that's a citation source for the dictionaries." -- Peter Moylan > >>You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's getting hard > >>to source in these here parts. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oy! (Wouldn't a glass supplier who's changed his shirt do just as > well?) But what would this fragile personality, whether before or after his annual bath, supply? Other than lead-based solder, of course. But now: how do we pernounce it? /sold@/? (That's mine.) /soldR/? /sod@/? /sodR/? Or /A/ or /oU/ in any of the preceding? ObKASCIIIPA, is there a way round the identical symblos /I/ and /l/? Above, I mean the latter in both examples. SignatureMike. Mike Lyle filted: >But what would this fragile personality, whether before or after his >annual bath, supply? Other than lead-based solder, of course. > >But now: how do we pernounce it? /sold@/? (That's mine.) /soldR/? >/sod@/? /sodR/? Or /A/ or /oU/ in any of the preceding? It's /'sOdR/ around here.... >ObKASCIIIPA, is there a way round the identical symblos /I/ and /l/? >Above, I mean the latter in both examples. Yes...change your font to Lucida Console....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > ObKASCIIIPA, is there a way round the identical symblos /I/ and /l/? > Above, I mean the latter in both examples. Choose a better font? I see "I" with serifs above and below and "l" with a full serif below and a partial serif on the left side above. I'm reading in Courier New. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Oh, forget it: I can't write about 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |this anymore until I find a much Palo Alto, CA 94304 |more sarcastic typeface. | Bill Bickel kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> ObKASCIIIPA, is there a way round the identical symblos /I/ and /l/? >> Above, I mean the latter in both examples. > > Choose a better font? I see "I" with serifs above and below and "l" > with a full serif below and a partial serif on the left side above. > I'm reading in Courier New. Lucida Console is even better for the "l", as it has no serif below and a partial serif (on the left) above. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > > ObKASCIIIPA, is there a way round the identical symblos /I/ and /l/? > > Above, I mean the latter in both examples. > > Choose a better font? I see "I" with serifs above and below and "l" > with a full serif below and a partial serif on the left side above. > I'm reading in Courier New. Ah, yes. I may be _using_ GG, but I'm not _of_ GG. So I forget it gives the choice. Silly question. And even in this sans face, Mrs Jones is not one hundred and eleven, either; though I can't help reading my "KASCIIIPA" above as the slightly Star-Warsian "kay ay ess cee three pee ay". SignatureMike. HVS (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message <Xns9866EA04F6210whhvans@62.253.170.163>: > On 24 Oct 2006, Prai Jei wrote > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You can still get lead-based solder where you are? It's getting hard > to source in these here parts. I haven't heard of any EU directive that would ban it. I've still got a big reel of the stuff stashed in my toolbox years after I used to muck around with electronic components, still finds occasional use. (Most recent job was to fix up a dicky electrical contact in a friend's model railway layout. A thick blob of solder bridging the sides of the rails did the trick.) SignatureWarning: keel away from child for hot bulb Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply On 25 Oct 2006, Prai Jei wrote > HVS (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message ><Xns9866EA04F6210whhvans@62.253.170.163>: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > after I used to muck around with electronic components, still > finds occasional use. I'm only going by a couple ofo conversations with a good friend who's a specialist electronics type at a defence research place, who told me to use the reel of lead-based solder I've got in my tool box sparingly, as it's now very difficult to replace. (He's also the one who told me that the non-lead stuff is pants.) SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 25 Oct 2006, Prai Jei wrote [...] > > I haven't heard of any EU directive that would ban it. Google on RoHS > > I've still got a big reel of the stuff stashed in my toolbox years > > after I used to muck around with electronic components, still [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > (He's also the one who told me that the non-lead stuff is pants.) One of the problems is the higher tin content leads to whiskering, which is not good if the whiskers connect something that shouldn't be connected. /dps >>> There's an important distinction between the two types of >>> solder. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a big reel of the stuff stashed in my toolbox years after I used to > muck around with electronic components, still finds occasional use. I have a big spool of very small gage solder -- vintage 1960, or so, used to solder wires into connector pins. Last use -- probably in the 'sixties. I don't even know where my trusty 35W fine-tip soldering iron might be, but it and variously shaped tips for it are around somewhere. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>>> There's an important distinction between the two types of >>>> solder. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >don't even know where my trusty 35W fine-tip soldering iron might be, but it >and variously shaped tips for it are around somewhere. But can those shaky old hands handle it now? Could you get a NASA soldering certificate? >>>>> There's an important distinction between the two types of >>>>> solder. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > But can those shaky old hands handle it now? > Could you get a NASA soldering certificate? Hah, my hands are still rock-solid. No shaking at all, but certificate? Naah. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > J. J. Lodder (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message > <1hnnpde.tj38q2s3v9b1N@de-ster.xs4all.nl>: > > Plumbers use a burner with propane (or gasoline lang ago) > > that sucks in atmospheric air. > > Is this also called a blowtorch, > > or is blowtorch used exclusively for oxy/acetylene torches > > with an external oxygen supply? > There's an important distinction between the two types of solder. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > enabling the joint to be "worked" into position before the entire mass of > solder sets solid. In Western Europe plumbers are no longer allowed to use tin-lead solder for anything that might carry drinking water. Some other lead-free mixture must be used, like tin-silver. Jan > In Western Europe plumbers are no longer allowed > to use tin-lead solder for anything > that might carry drinking water. > Some other lead-free mixture must be used, > like tin-silver. That's the case in the US also, since the late '80s. SignatureRay (remove the Xs to reply) |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.