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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006British English or American English on DVDs?
Hello everybody, When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should come with american english audio track, right? Now, I wonder what happens for example in England when we buy this DVD. We find the original american audio track, or the film is dubbed in british english? And when a film is produced in the UK, what happens to the american version of the DVD ? I hope to have been clear although my poor english. Thanks in advance! > Hello everybody, > When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should come [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > version of the DVD ? I hope to have been clear although my poor > english. Thanks in advance! That's extrememly rare. In spite of the wrangling that takes place here, Americans can understand most British accents/dialects and vice versa. In a few cases, subtitles are added when a particularly tricky one is use, although I'm not sure if that's for everyone or just a particular market. There was a cartoon called "Stressed Eric" that had some or all of the dialog dubbed into American English for broadcast in the US. Brian  SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > That's extrememly rare. In spite of the wrangling that takes place > here, Americans can understand most British accents/dialects and vice > versa. In a few cases, subtitles are added when a particularly tricky > one is use, although I'm not sure if that's for everyone or just a > particular market. You are correct, sir. I've seen some BrE films where I would have appreciated subtitles (particularly ones in which most of the characters speak in Cockney). SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> That's extrememly rare. In spite of the wrangling that takes place >> here, Americans can understand most British accents/dialects and vice [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >appreciated subtitles (particularly ones in which most of the characters >speak in Cockney). Reactionary moment: I think they speak Cockney, not 'in' Cockney. SignaturePaul Diffidently abled > Hello everybody, > When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should come with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of the DVD ? > I hope to have been clear although my poor english. Thanks in advance! We English can understand the Americans easily enough so don't need a translation. Sometimes I don't understand an American phrase but eventually I learn its meaning. I didn't used to know what "chill out" meant, but now I use it myself. Whether the Americans can understand the various British regional accents so well is another question, though I did read recently that some British expressions are becoming fashionable with New Yorkers. To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. However, I have occasionally heard of films where some of the local English accents are so strong that the Americans insert subtitles at various points. Can any Merkins substantiate this? Regards, Ocula Sinistra. As we all stood and listened, Ocula sinistra sung the following words: > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone > films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. However, > I have occasionally heard of films where some of the local English > accents are so strong that the Americans insert subtitles at various > points. Can any Merkins substantiate this? A slightly different example to what you intended, but the film "My Name is Joe", which has dialogue in a fairly strong Glaswegian accent, was subtitled when it was shown in Australia. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > > Hello everybody, > > When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > accents are so strong that the Americans insert subtitles at various > points. Can any Merkins substantiate this? I've seen the latter. Is that not done for UK releases at all? Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > > > Hello everybody, > > > When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I've seen the latter. Is that not done for UK releases at all? I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. I did notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, Stock and Two Barrels" used subtitles when a West Indian criminal was speaking, but that may have been done for comic effect, as to my ear he was perfectly intelligible. The friend who watched it with me thought it *might* have been for the benefit of American viewers, but I should imagine the Americans are at least as used to West Indian accents as we are. Ocula Sinistra. > I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. I did > notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, Stock and Two > Barrels" used subtitles when a West Indian criminal was speaking, but that > may have been done for comic effect, as to my ear he was perfectly > intelligible. _Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels_ was one fiwm where subtitles would generally have aided the American audience, I'd say. SignatureBuckwheat Soba As we all stood and listened, Ocula sinistra sung the following words: > > > I have never heard of Anglophone > > > films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > should imagine the Americans are at least as used to West Indian > accents as we are. There are some scenes set in a nightclub in "Trainspotting" that do a similar thing. From memory, the subtitles deliberately diverge at times from the actual dialogue. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > > > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone > > > films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. No, I meant subtitles for local English accents, in the UK. > I > did notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, Stock [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > should imagine the Americans are at least as used to West Indian > accents as we are. Such accents aren't as common here as in the UK, but are depicted in TV shows and movies sometimes. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) As we all stood and listened, Default User sung the following words: > > I > > did notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, Stock [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Such accents aren't as common here as in the UK, but are depicted in > TV shows and movies sometimes. Usually very badly, from what I've seen. Of course, I heard them, but if I'd said "from what I've heard" it would imply that the information would be second-hand. What an odd language! SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Default User sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > would imply that the information would be second-hand. What an odd > language! I would probably use "experienced" or something along those lines. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >>>> To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone >>>> films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No, I meant subtitles for local English accents, in the UK. No, as far as I know that's not done. For dialects, and for Scots I've seen it, but not for English accents. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > > > > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone > > > > films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > won't shut up. > -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) Hmmm..... I'm new to this newsgroup, but was browsing about cockney and other accents (including John F.Kennedy's famous intrusive "r"'s as in Cuba(r) etc.) These kinds of things hardly bother me, but it is interesting to see the current film using English characters, "The Prestige", and hear a mixture of accents.. >I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. I did >notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, Stock and Two [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >for the benefit of American viewers, but I should imagine the Americans are >at least as used to West Indian accents as we are. I posted my comment about this movie before I read this post. That particular movie always comes to mind when the need for subtitles comes up. However, subtitles could be used for the *entire* movie on the DVD I rented. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > > I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. > > I did notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > comes up. However, subtitles could be used for the entire movie on > the DVD I rented. Most DVDs these days have either subtitles or closed captioning (sometimes both). That can be helpful in many situations. I use the closed captioning for the TV show "Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares" that runs on BBCA as well. That show has a mix of UK accents and while usually the dialog is basically understandable a bit of CC helps. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> > I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. >> > I did notice that the British release of the British film "Lock, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >accents and while usually the dialog is basically understandable a bit >of CC helps. I mentioned "subtitles" being available on almost all rental DVDs in another post. I should have used "closed captioning" because the words don't appear as subtitles, but appear as "closed captions". However, my DVD remote has a "subtitles on" button and the DVD cases list the languages available as subtitles. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > > Most DVDs these days have either subtitles or closed captioning > > (sometimes both). That can be helpful in many situations. > I mentioned "subtitles" being available on almost all rental DVDs in > another post. I should have used "closed captioning" because the > words don't appear as subtitles, but appear as "closed captions". > However, my DVD remote has a "subtitles on" button and the DVD cases > list the languages available as subtitles. With my setup, subtitles are handled by the DVD player and CC by the television. If the TV is doing CC, and the subtitles feature is turned on, and the DVD supports both, I'll get two sets of text. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> > > Hello everybody, >> > > When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >I'v never known UK releases of American films to contain subtitles. At a guess I'd say that in the UK (and in Ireland) the majority of films shown on TV are American. This means that viewers are very familiar with the varieties of AmE used in these films. There is really no need for subtitles. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > At a guess I'd say that in the UK (and in Ireland) the majority of > films shown on TV are American. This means that viewers are very > familiar with the varieties of AmE used in these films. There is > really no need for subtitles. Same in Australia, but I admit I did have some problems with "All the pretty horses". SignatureRob Bannister Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: > We English can understand the Americans easily enough so don't need a > translation. Sometimes I don't understand an American phrase but > eventually I learn its meaning. I didn't used to know what Oy! > "chill out" meant, but now I use it myself. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oy! A missed 't'? I suppose that's a big thing in Britain. ;) >> "chill out" meant, but now I use it myself. --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead On 24 Oct 2006, Jeffrey Turner wrote >> Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > A missed 't'? I suppose that's a big thing in Britain. ;) ?? Skitt's about as non-BrEng as you can get. I suspect he's Oying something else entirely. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 24 Oct 2006, Jeffrey Turner wrote > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I suspect he's Oying something else entirely. This is why I detest unadorned "Oys". If you have something to say, say it. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: >>> We English can understand the Americans easily enough so don't need >>> a translation. Sometimes I don't understand an American phrase but [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >>> "chill out" meant, but now I use it myself. No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that has been discussed in this group before. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > >> Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that has been discussed in > this group before. I stand corrected. I wondered when someone was going to notice it. My Geordie (from Newcastle, England) mother once did an even better one: "I can't sing now, but I used to could!" Ocula Sinistra. >>> Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that has been > discussed in this group before. "Used to" is the way I've always said it, or "yoosta," but I'm sure it's been the past tense of "use" in my head. Why would you use the present tense for something in the past? There's also the phrase, "I am used to whatever," which is prolly related. --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead >> No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The >> correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it's been the past tense of "use" in my head. Why would you use the > present tense for something in the past? You don't. You use the infinitive. As in "I didn't want to know", not "I didn't wanted to know". We have, indeed, discussed this at length before. For my money, "useta" is fully a modal, but the spelling convention is to write it as "I used to" and "I didn't use to", as though it were an inflected verb (which is how it started out), even though both are pronounced the same. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |barbarian and thinks that the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |customs of his tribe and island are |the laws of nature. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | (650)857-7572 | George Bernard Shaw http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The >>>correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > verb (which is how it started out), even though both are pronounced > the same. OK. I was focused on the "use[d] to," not the "didn't." I don't like "didn't use to" as an idiom. --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead "Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote : >>>>No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The >>>>correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > OK. I was focused on the "use[d] to," not the "didn't." I don't like > "didn't use to" as an idiom. It's difficult to avoid it if you want to use a past tense. "Used not to ..." is fine, but hardly conversational, at least in my idiolect. I might use "usedn't to ..." but then I'm funny that way. The "d", by the way, is silent. Philip Eden > "Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote : > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > "usedn't to ..." but then I'm funny that way. The "d", by the way, is > silent. Depends on the whole context, dunnit? "Didn't previously" or "back then I didn't" can be used as substitutes, and there are doubtless other constructions that would serve. --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead [snip] >> No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The correct >> usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that has been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >tense for something in the past? There's also the phrase, "I am used to >whatever," which is prolly related. Because the "didn't" established the tense. You would not say, "I didn't spoke." but "I didn't speak." And it is not the present tense. It is just spelled the same way. The "speak" in "to speak" is not present tense. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. >>>> Ocula sinistra wrote, in part: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > tense for something in the past? There's also the phrase, "I am used to > whatever," which is prolly related. There's probably something about this in the FAQ. Compare any other verb: I wanted to know that. I didn't want to know. I had to know. I didn't have to know. I demanded to know. I didn't demand... etc. "I am used to" is a bit different. It obviously isn't a passive as in "I am used as a sex-toy", so it must be a kind of adjective. What is interesting is that it is usually followed by an -ing noun, whereas other verb-like adjectives that one could substitute (eg satisfied, contented, irritated) cannot. SignatureRob Bannister > No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The correct usage > is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that has been discussed in > this group before. No, this is the etymological fallacy, a common error that has been discussed in this group before. Just because the verb "used to" is derived from the verb "use" doesn't mean it gets inflected like it. "Didn't used to" is correct. SignatureMark Brader | In the face of such devastating logic as "despite Toronto | what you say you mean, you must mean this and you msb@vex.net | are wrong", I cede the territory. --Truly Donovan >> No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The >> correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > derived from the verb "use" doesn't mean it gets inflected like it. > "Didn't used to" is correct. Aha -- you were one of those who took the wrong side of the argument. In words you can understand, then, you did missed the boat. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>> No missed "t". An extra "d" in "I didn't used to know". The >>> correct usage is "I didn't use to know." It is a common error that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Aha -- you were one of those who took the wrong side of the argument. > In words you can understand, then, you did missed the boat. Exactly. There is no other verb ending in -ed that occurs after "didn't", so why make "use" an exception? SignatureRob Bannister [snip] >Exactly. There is no other verb ending in -ed that occurs after >"didn't", so why make "use" an exception? He didn't bed that wench. I didn't need to give an second example. (Yes, I know you intended "-ed" to mean past tense.) Use the last dough? I didn't. Kneaded dough is right over there. (Oh, one sentence and not a participial use. Right.) Then, there is the difference between "after" and "immediately after", but the ducks deserve a chance. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. Mark Brader: >>> Just because the verb "used to" is derived from the verb "use" >>> doesn't mean it gets inflected like it. "Didn't used to" is correct. Rob Bannister: > There is no other verb ending in -ed that occurs after "didn't", so > why make "use" an exception? Idioms are like that, and in any case this one does not contain "use". "Use" as a verb has a Z sound. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Then she got a Googling look." msb@vex.net --Vernor Vinge, "Rainbows End" > Mark Brader: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Idioms are like that, and in any case this one does not contain "use". > "Use" as a verb has a Z sound. I see them as two separate, though related verbs, with different pronunciations. SignatureRob Bannister >> Mark Brader: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I see them as two separate, though related verbs, with different > pronunciations. It's the same verb, and the Z in "use", when spoken quickly, especially with a "to" following, tends to sound like an s. In any case, that does not have much to do with anything. "Didn't used to" is a written misrepresentation of what is being said, as "didn't use to", the grammatically correct phrase, sounds exactly the same. I really didn't wanted to went there, but ... SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>> Mark Brader: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > misrepresentation of what is being said, as "didn't use to", the > grammatically correct phrase, sounds exactly the same. [reluctantly] You are, of course, correct about the influence of the t, but it does influence how we think of the word. I (somewhat pompously) tend to say "I used not to...", but I still retain the ss pronunciation. SignatureRob Bannister >>>> Rob Bannister: >>>>>> Mark Brader: >>>>>>> Just because the verb "used to" is derived from the verb "use" >>>>>>> doesn't mean it gets inflected like it. "Didn't used to" is [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > pompously) tend to say "I used not to...", but I still retain the ss > pronunciation. I would say that with the Z sound, unless I were speaking very rapidly and sloppily. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>>>> Rob Bannister: >>>>>>> Mark Brader: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >I would say that with the Z sound, unless I were speaking very rapidly and >sloppily. I'm not at all convinced about the devoicing hypothesis to explain why we say "I [ju:st] to live there", because it never happens when "used" means "utilised" -- surely not even the fastest speaker would say "foam spray was [ju:st] to put out the fire" with an [s]. I think that it's simpler to think of them as two separate verbs: "yooce (to)", which is defective, and "yooz", which is regular. They just happen to share the same spelling. SignatureBrad Germolene [...] [About "use" meaning "be accustomed" and "use" meaning "employ"] > I think that it's simpler to think of them as two separate verbs: > "yooce (to)", which is defective, and "yooz", which is regular. They > just happen to share the same spelling. Hear! Hear! Except that I don't agree the "yooce" pronunciation is invariable when "use" means "be accustomed". Also, I wouldn't call "use" meaning "be wont" defective. I prefer to think of it as a verb that has a full set of inflections, most of which people choose to not use for the time being. I find it acceptable to say things like "I used often to go there" or "I used, when I was in the mood and had time on my hands, to listen to big-band music". When words are interpolated between "used" and "to", I may pronounce "used" with the voiced "s", depending upon what sound the interpolated string starts with. I discussed "used to" and related expressions fairly extensively in May 2000 ( http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycp92n ). In that posting I quoted Evelyn Waugh (1903-66): "You used not to have a moustache, used you?" Katy Edgcombe: "Used you to go there?" Browning (1812-89): "Die at good old age as grand men use." I would fully expect to find that in "used you?" Waugh would have voiced the "s" in "used". It takes extra effort to say "Yoost you?" I would like to know how Katy would pronounce the "s" in "Used you to go there?" If that construction were in my idiolect, I would voice the "s". I would find it awkward to say "Yoost you to go there?", and I should think anyone else would. >> I think that it's simpler to think of them as two separate verbs: >> "yooce (to)", which is defective, and "yooz", which is regular. They >> just happen to share the same spelling. "Have"/"has"/"had" behaves in exactly the same way -- unvoiced in the "must" sense, voiced otherwise. >I would like to know how Katy would pronounce the "s" in >"Used you to go there?" If that construction were in my >idiolect, I would voice the "s". I would find it awkward to >say "Yoost you to go there?", and I should think anyone else >would. I can't speak for Katy, but "Yoost you to go there?" is absolutely normal to me. Voicing the "s" would sound odd. David In message <969@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk>, dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> writes >>> I think that it's simpler to think of them as two separate verbs: >>> "yooce (to)", which is defective, and "yooz", which is regular. They [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I can't speak for Katy, but "Yoost you to go there?" is absolutely >normal to me. Voicing the "s" would sound odd. I think David (dcw) is correct. Southern England educated Berkshire speech, for the record. Not that I generally approve of 'me too' postings, but some of these usage discussions seem to invite a straw poll. Voiced 's' in usage, by the way. SignaturePaul In bocca al Lupo! > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone films > being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. However, I have > occasionally heard of films where some of the local English accents are so > strong that the Americans insert subtitles at various points. Can any > Merkins substantiate this? Thank you very much. I am having problems to understand wheter these films are in american english or british english: 1) Hannibal 2) The mummy's return 3) The Diary of Bridget Jones Could anyone help me? > Thank you very much. I am having problems to understand wheter these films > are in american english or british english: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Could anyone help me? The only one of those I've seen is _Bridget Jones's Diary_, which is done in British English of a sort that is highly intelligible to Americans, so no subtitles are necessary. (The film does use some BrE-specific expressions that will be lost on the non-Cooperian audience, but that's a whole nother matter. The accents are no problem.) The main character in _Bridget Jones's Diary_ is played by Renee Zellweger, who is an American but, I am told, does a pretty good rendition of the appropriate variety of soufeastern English accent for the role. I haven't seen _Hannibal_, but that's a movie written by a speaker of American English, yet some of whose actors are not native speakers of American English (e.g. the main character, Anthony Hopkins, whose character is, I think, supposed to be American). _The Mummy Returns_ appears to have been written by an American and stars a mix of British and American and Miscelleaneous actors, and apparently is set in London. I haven't seen that one either. I think the main takeaway (= ErkE "carryout") from all this is that you need better taste in movies. SignatureBuckwheat Soba > > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone films > > being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. However, I have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 2) The mummy's return > 3) The Diary of Bridget Jones Most English people do not pronounce an "r" if it occurs before a consonant. Most Americans do, but so do most Scottish people! Most Englishmen would not pronounce the "r" in "understand" - most Americans would. Likewise the "r" in answer - unless it preceded a word beginning with a vowel, then the English would too, e.g. "Answer a question for me, would you?" (See "rhotic" and "non-rhotic" in Wikipedia). Ocula Sinistra. >To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone films >being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. However, I have >occasionally heard of films where some of the local English accents are so >strong that the Americans insert subtitles at various points. Can any >Merkins substantiate this? _Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels_ is unwatchable without subtitles for most Americans. Just about all rental DVDs have the option of turning on subtitles in one or more languages. American movies with white bread American dialog can be watched with subtitles. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > American movies with white bread American > dialog can be watched with subtitles. Translation, please? SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > > American movies with white bread American > > dialog can be watched with subtitles. > > Translation, please? See the second entry below. <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/white%20bread> He means a very plain, non-distinctive US accent. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > >> American movies with white bread American >> dialog can be watched with subtitles. > >Translation, please? White bread = vanilla = plain, ordinary. If I ever start up another business, extend that business to the UK market, and use a website to promote that business in the UK, I promise not to use "white bread". Just for you. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > market, and use a website to promote that business in the UK, I > promise not to use "white bread". Just for you. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd have trouble understanding it! Thank you for the translation. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd have trouble understanding it! I'm not so sure I agree with Coop's definition of "white bread" there. Let's see -- okay, M-W defines it thus: "being typical of, or having qualities (as blandness) associated with the white middle class" That's certainly closer to how I hear it used. That is to say, it is not simply a synonym for "vanilla, plain, ordinary". It's a lot more specific than that. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I'm not so sure I agree with Coop's definition of "white bread" there. Get back to us when you're sure. >Let's see -- okay, M-W defines it thus: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >simply a synonym for "vanilla, plain, ordinary". It's a lot more specific >than that. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL [...] >> I'm not so sure I agree with Coop's definition of "white bread" >> there. > > Get back to us when you're sure. What you mean "us", White bread? >> As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: >>> American movies with white bread American >>> dialog can be watched with subtitles. >> Translation, please? > White bread = vanilla = plain, ordinary. > > If I ever start up another business, extend that business to the UK > market, and use a website to promote that business in the UK, I > promise not to use "white bread". Just for you. Whereas "brown bread" in BrE (colloquial) means, well it's one of the few rhyming slangs where it's usual to pronounce the rhyming part. Matthew Huntbach > >As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > market, and use a website to promote that business in the UK, I > promise not to use "white bread". Just for you. I prefer the "white bread" usage. Vanilla is for me a delicacy (did you know it comes from an orchid?) and is used to make custard and ice-cream. It's a lot more expensive than white bread too. How dare anybody use "vanilla" to mean "plain and ordinary"! Ocula Sinistra [...] > I prefer the "white bread" usage. Vanilla is for me a delicacy (did you > know it comes from an orchid?) and is used to make custard and ice-cream. > It's a lot more expensive than white bread too. How dare anybody use > "vanilla" to mean "plain and ordinary"! As you probably know anyway, this usage derives from ice-cream, for which "vanilla" is the bog standard flavour (probably the only flavour in times past) as opposed to all the other flavours. SignatureLes > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "vanilla" is the bog standard flavour (probably the only flavour in times > past) as opposed to all the other flavours. And, which is rarely flavored with real orchid-derived vanilla, unless you pay top dollar. --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead >> [...] >>>I prefer the "white bread" usage. Vanilla is for me a delicacy (did you >>>know it comes from an orchid?) and is used to make custard and ice-cream. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >And, which is rarely flavored with real orchid-derived vanilla, unless >you pay top dollar. Right. Vanilla vanilla ice cream does not contain vanilla. Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. >To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone films >being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. For entertainment, you're probably correct. However, documentaries made for television are frequently "dubbed" -- I think the only person who regularly escapes that treatment is Attenborough.[1] Scare quotes because I believe most such films are "co-productions", and the U.S. version not only has a different narrator but is frequently edited to a different length and has U.S.-specific scenes; it's not an after-the-fact dialogue replacement, but planned from the beginning that each broadcaster participating will use its own narration. (That's obviously necessary in some cases, where one of the co-producers is from a non-English-speaking country like Sweden.) -GAWollman [1] Unavoidable since he actually appears on camera, unlike George Page who appeared only in a separately-filmed introduction segment. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness As we all stood and listened, Garrett Wollman sung the following words: > > To answer your question in short, I have never heard of Anglophone > > films being dubbed, either for Americans or for the British. > > For entertainment, you're probably correct. However, documentaries > made for television are frequently "dubbed" That's a good point. Whatever class of programme that "Mythbusters" is in also gets this treatment sometimes; over here, at least. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Garrett Wollman sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That's a good point. Whatever class of programme that "Mythbusters" is > in also gets this treatment sometimes; over here, at least. That surprises me. Are the Mythbusters's accents difficult for UKers to hack their way through? They're quite close to generic TV American, with some faint regional touches. (Or maybe you just meant shows _like_ Mythbusters, and not Mythbusters itself.) SignatureSML As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Garrett Wollman sung the following > > words: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > American, with some faint regional touches. (Or maybe you just meant > shows like Mythbusters, and not Mythbusters itself.) No no, I meant the narrator, not the presenters. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No no, I meant the narrator, not the presenters. Ah, all is clear. SignatureSML As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ah, all is clear. Damn! SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > No no, I meant the narrator, not the presenters. I think that's just the narrator. I had never thought of him as having a British accent, but recently I've noticed a number of British pronunciations in his speech. The one that sticks to my mind is /peIt@nt/ rather than /p&tEnt/ for "patent". Okay, pushing on things, the narrator is Robert Lee, who is...an Australian who was born in England. Assuming that you guys are, in fact, hearing the same narrator we are, what accent would you consider him to have? SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |English is about as pure as a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |cribhouse whore. We don't just Palo Alto, CA 94304 |borrow words; on occasion, English |has pursued other languages down kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |alleyways to beat them unconscious (650)857-7572 |and rifle their pockets for new |vocabulary. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --James D. Nicoll As we all stood and listened, Evan Kirshenbaum sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Sara Lorimer sung the following words: > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > fact, hearing the same narrator we are, what accent would you consider > him to have? The narrator is undoubtedly British, and I'm quite confident that he's not the voice you hear. There are occasional cultural references that simply would not have been made for an American audience, and it seems reasonable to assume that the converse applies. Unfortunately, I have no idea what his name is. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" As we all stood and listened, A. Gwilliam sung the following words: > As we all stood and listened, Evan Kirshenbaum sung the following > words: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Unfortunately, I have no idea what his name is. Wikipedia tells us that the British presenters are Robin Banks, for the Discovery Channel, and someone called Rufus Hound for the BBC. I'm not sure I quite believe the latter name, but when the Beeb recently began to show the series I did have a reaction that the narrator sounded different. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >That surprises me. Are the Mythbusters's accents difficult for UKers to >hack their way through? They're quite close to generic TV American, with >some faint regional touches. (Or maybe you just meant shows _like_ >Mythbusters, and not Mythbusters itself.) Mythbusters uses quite a few terms that are not the terms that UKians would use. It's not a matter of accent, but a matter of "wrench" or "spanner". I think that some Brits might be distracted by, say, "crescent wrench". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > That surprises me. Are the Mythbusters's accents difficult for > > UKers to hack their way through? They're quite close to generic TV [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "spanner". I think that some Brits might be distracted by, say, > "crescent wrench". We tend to take that sort of thing in our stride. After all, it'd be in a context where viewers will be able to see what's being spoken about. Occasionally the narration is used to explain or clarify cultural differences, though. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >We tend to take that sort of thing in our stride. Don't we have a thread running where someone is quite offended because American companies doing business in the UK are using American spelling ("color") unabashedly on their websites and in full view of Brits? Doesn't sound like that's taking things in stride. >After all, it'd be >in a context where viewers will be able to see what's being spoken >about. Like a website? >Occasionally the narration is used to explain or clarify cultural >differences, though. You guys don't build potato guns? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>That surprises me. Are the Mythbusters's accents difficult for UKers to >>hack their way through? They're quite close to generic TV American, with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "spanner". I think that some Brits might be distracted by, say, > "crescent wrench". I have one of those in my kitchen: for removing stuck croissants from the baking tray. SignatureRay UK Legolas filted: >Hello everybody, >When a film is produced, for example in America, his DVD should come with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >of the DVD ? >I hope to have been clear although my poor english. Thanks in advance! I don't remember Charlie Chaplin (born in London) and Buster Keaton (Iola, Kansas) having non-intersecting audiences (at least not for linguistic reasons)...Oliver Hardy (Harlem, Georgia) and Stan Laurel (Ulverston, Cumbria) even worked side by side for decades and managed to communicate just fine.... Heck, Douglas Fairbanks (Denver, Colorado) and Mary Pickford (Toronto, Ontario), an international if not intercontinental team, did better than that....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Legolas filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Keaton (Iola, Kansas) having non-intersecting audiences (at > least not for linguistic reasons)... Ah, but many of their films had titling[ is that the word? -- not subtitles, but younwhamean]. I'm glad you've explained the reason for that. > Oliver Hardy (Harlem, > Georgia) and Stan Laurel (Ulverston, Cumbria) even worked side [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (Toronto, Ontario), an international if not intercontinental > team, did better than that....r After hurricane Katrina, some interviews on American TV with American citizens were subtitled for American viewers. I think the effete easterners who produced the news shows were unable to understand the Cajun-inflected gumbo of a dialect they were hearing. Most of it seemed reasonably understandable to me, though. I wondered whether I'd have felt insulted to have my speech subtitled in those circumstances. Signaturerzed As we all stood and listened, R H Draney sung the following words: > Legolas filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (Toronto, Ontario), an international if not intercontinental team, > did better than that....r I've read that people in Britain encountering the earliest of the American talkies would literally be unable to understand what was being said, however. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > I've read that people in Britain encountering the earliest of the > American talkies would literally be unable to understand what was being > said, however. And strangely, when present-day Americans hear *those* Americans they often think they sound vaguely British. SignatureBuckwheat Soba As we all stood and listened, Buckwheat Soba sung the following words: > > I've read that people in Britain encountering the earliest of the > > American talkies would literally be unable to understand what was > > being said, however. > > And strangely, when present-day Americans hear those Americans they > often think they sound vaguely British. "Hello, Mr Cholmondley-Warner!" SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Buckwheat Soba sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "Hello, Mr Cholmondley-Warner!" "Choll-mond-lee"? ;) --Jeff SignatureNot ignorance, but ignorance of ignorance, is the death of knowledge. -Alfred North Whitehead As we all stood and listened, Jeffrey Turner sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Buckwheat Soba sung the following > > words: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > "Choll-mond-lee"? ;) "I say, Grayson!" SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > > I've read that people in Britain encountering the earliest of the > > American talkies would literally be unable to understand what was being > > said, however. > > And strangely, when present-day Americans hear *those* Americans they > often think they sound vaguely British. Is that what 1935 Americans thought of as 'having class'? Jan ... } Heck, Douglas Fairbanks (Denver, Colorado) and Mary Pickford (Toronto, Ontario), } an international if not intercontinental team, did better than that....r Say, have I mentioned that I've eaten fettuccine (ObAUE: a word oddly absent from my trusty old _American Heritage Dictionary_ (I)) with the gold fork and spoon they gave Alfredo (as did JFK and probably half the readers of AUE)? Signaturerjv I've only got the pictures of me and of JFK doing so, though. >Oliver Hardy (Harlem, Georgia) and Stan Laurel (Ulverston, Cumbria) >even worked side by side for decades and managed to communicate just fine.... Oy! Ulverston may be in Cumbria now, but it wasn't when Stan was there. Indeed, Cumbria didn't exist at that time. Ulverston is in Furness, which used to be a separated part of Lancashire (God's own county), but it was moved in '74. Cumbria combines the old Cumberland, Westmoreland, and Furness. SignatureGraeme Thomas "Graeme Thomas" <graeme@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote : >>Oliver Hardy (Harlem, Georgia) and Stan Laurel (Ulverston, Cumbria) >>even worked side by side for decades and managed to communicate just [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (God's own county), but it was moved in '74. Cumbria combines the old > Cumberland, Westmoreland, and Furness. ^^^^^^^^^^ "Oy!" to you too, Graeme. Philip Eden > "Graeme Thomas" <graeme@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote : >> Ulverston is in Furness, which used to be a separated part of >> Lancashire (God's own county), but it was moved in '74. Cumbria >> combines the old Cumberland, Westmoreland, and Furness. >> > ^^^^^^^^^^ > "Oy!" to you too, Graeme. Which part are you "oy"ing? The marks are under "land, West" here. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary As we all stood and listened, Amethyst Deceiver sung the following words: > >"Graeme Thomas" <graeme@graemet.demon.co.uk> wrote : > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Which part are you "oy"ing? The marks are under "land, West" here. He was "oy"ing the spelling "Westmoreland". He appears to have done so using a proportional font, though, which will mean that where the marks end up on others' screens is in the lap of the gods. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" "A. Gwilliam" <bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote : > As we all stood and listened, Amethyst Deceiver sung the following words: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > He was "oy"ing the spelling "Westmoreland". Either that or the unexpected appearance of a dead American general in the wilds of northwest England. Philip Eden As we all stood and listened, Philip Eden sung the following words: > "A. Gwilliam" <bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote : > > > He was "oy"ing the spelling "Westmoreland". > > Either that or the unexpected appearance of a dead American general > in the wilds of northwest England. Hm. {makes notes for a possible zombie film} SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" Graeme Thomas filted: >>Oliver Hardy (Harlem, Georgia) and Stan Laurel (Ulverston, Cumbria) >>even worked side by side for decades and managed to communicate just fine.... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Ulverston may be in Cumbria now, but it wasn't when Stan was there. >Indeed, Cumbria didn't exist at that time. Well, here's another fine mess IMDb has gotten me into....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. |
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