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Discussion Groups / English Usage / October 2006"Freeway" used in North Carolina
I just thought I'd tell y'all that in North Carolina they have things that, officially at least, are called "freeways".  SignatureBuckwheat Soba >I just thought I'd tell y'all that in North Carolina they have things >that, officially at least, are called "freeways". Well-known over in misc.transport.road. The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and "expressway" are used, with the same meaning. Elsewhere in the U.S., "freeway" and "expressway" have different meanings. (Specifically, an expressway is limited-access; a freeway is controlled-access. The latter is a subcategory of the former.) -GAWolman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness As we all stood and listened, Garrett Wollman sung the following words: > > I just thought I'd tell y'all that in North Carolina they have > > things that, officially at least, are called "freeways". [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > expressway is limited-access; a freeway is controlled-access. The > latter is a subcategory of the former.) For whatever it's worth, I see that there's at least one "Freeway" and one "Expressway" in the Baltimore area. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" As we all stood and listened, A. Gwilliam sung the following words: > As we all stood and listened, Garrett Wollman sung the following > words: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > For whatever it's worth, I see that there's at least one "Freeway" and > one "Expressway" in the Baltimore area. Further data points: Phoenix has Freeways, including the delightfully named "Superstition". Albuquerque also has Freeways. On the other hand, I don't recall Portland or Seattle having any; does this mean that "freeway" is mainly a California and South-West thing? I've just noticed that Houston and Dallas have them, too; Dallas also has Expressways, though, one of which just seems to be a main road, while another is an Interstate. Still, Dallas can't seem to make up its mind whether "Turnpike" means a toll road or not, so what would they know? Louisville, KY, has an "Expressway", as does Lynchburg, VA. Omaha has at least one "Freeway" and one very short "Expressway". Lincoln has a US Highway abbreviated as "RDWY"; "Roadway"? Charleston has an Expressway, but Columbia has a Freeway. They also have a "BTWY"; would that be "Beltway"? Missouri seems to have Expressways. But Springfield seems to call them Freeways, with "Expressway" being used for highways with less-restricted access; possibly local main roads? I'm guessing from all this that the members of the secret international committee of Jewish socialist neo-conservative Freemason bankers that rules the world are devoting themselves in their spare time to highway-naming conventions. I'm sure they're responsible for our equally peculiar "A1(M)" and the like. On the other hand, I now know that some American cities name their roads "Pike", which can only be a good thing. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > Further data points: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Portland or Seattle having any; does this mean that "freeway" is > mainly a California and South-West thing? No. Both Portland and Seattle have freeways. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ As we all stood and listened, Skitt sung the following words: > > Further data points: > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No. Both Portland and Seattle have freeways. Oh? I guess that makes it mainly a West Coast thing, then, perhaps spreading out from California. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Skitt sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Oh? I guess that makes it mainly a West Coast thing, then, perhaps > spreading out from California. I'm not sure "mainly" is still true, but it might be. It is definitely a Western United States Speech Phenomenon (WUSSP) that has spread to some other areas. (Whether Seattle and Portland, not to mention much of California, are on the "coast" is debatable, BTAWNS.) SignatureBuckwheat Soba > Skitt sung the following words: >>> Further data points: >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Oh? I guess that makes it mainly a West Coast thing, then, perhaps > spreading out from California. More than just the coast. I'm not going to check, but I'm quite sure that all the states in the western half of the USA have roads that are called and defined as freeways. I don't know enough about the eastern half to be sure of this, but I think that there are freeways in some of those states too. Alabama, Georgia, Florida, both Carolinas, and Virginia have them. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >> Skitt sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >of this, but I think that there are freeways in some of those states too. >Alabama, Georgia, Florida, both Carolinas, and Virginia have them. I can't think of any route in Florida that is called a "freeway". This link - http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/03/08/fla.acid.spill/index.html - refers to I-10 as a "freeway", but I can't imagine anyone in Florida calling I-10 as anything but "an interstate". Another link - http://www.swamphen.net/roads/diagrams/ - titles the page "freeways", but none of the routes listed are *called* freeways. An Expressway may be a free way, but it's not called a "freeway". I take J. Turner Butler Blvd from I-95 to Jax Beach when I visit my daughter. No local, though, would direct me to the J. Turner Butler Freeway. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > > Skitt sung the following words: > > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > daughter. No local, though, would direct me to the J. Turner Butler > Freeway. Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a "Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a >"Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. It's a toll road - and Expressway, to us - that was named after Jim Greene. Jim was an Expressway Authority chairman. It's not uncommon here to name roads of any kind after "famous" people. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a >>"Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. > >It's a toll road - and Expressway, to us - that was named after Jim >Greene. Jim was an Expressway Authority chairman. It's not uncommon >here to name roads of any kind after "famous" people. I provided the above information from memory since someone else asked me about the GreeneWay recently, but after posting I looked it up. Wiki says: "State Road 417, also known as the Central Florida GreeneWay, Southern Connector and Seminole Expressway, is tolled freeway forming the eastern beltway around the city of Orlando, Florida, United States. It is owned and maintained by the Orlando-Orange County Expressway Authority (OOCEA) and Florida's Turnpike Enterprise. The OOCEA section was posthumously named after former OOCEA chairman Jim Greene." A "tolled freeway"? The "eastern beltway around the city..."? It is the eastern leg of a series of routes that forms a partial beltway around the city. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >A "tolled freeway"? Yes. What of it? I can't think of any through toll road in the U.S. that isn't a freeway. (If this were misc.transport.road, someone would undoubtedly pop up out of the woodwork to point out some place I don't know about. There are plenty of non-freeway toll roads, but most if not all of them have no outlet: they serve an airport or climb a mountain. I am of course not counting toll bridges or tunnels.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a > > "Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. > > It's a toll road - and Expressway, to us - that was named after Jim > Greene. Jim was an Expressway Authority chairman. It's not uncommon > here to name roads of any kind after "famous" people. Assuming my road atlas is accurate, it is a rather unusual way of naming a road after someone, though: "Central Florida Greeneway". SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Assuming my road atlas is accurate, it is a rather unusual way of >naming a road after someone, though: "Central Florida Greeneway". I dunno about unusual. I don't think there's a system or protocol that says how to do it. The words are arranged so they sound the best. There is a bit of wordplay involved with Green(e) and Way, but "Jim Greene Expressway" is kinda blah. We also have a "Beeline Expressway" (but the name isn't used on maps anymore) and an "East-West Expressway" (also blah, and also not a name that appears on the maps). Mostly, the expressways are designated by number. The radio traffic reports just call it "the GreeneWay" (but you can't hear the capital "W"). BTW...it's "GreeneWay" where it is written and not "Greeneway". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I dunno about unusual. If it's not unusual it must at least be reasonably commonplace. And that seems utterly unlikely. Can you name any other roads that have their names constucted in a similar fashion? > BTW...it's "GreeneWay" where it is written and not "Greeneway". Oh, okay. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >that seems utterly unlikely. Can you name any other roads that have >their names constucted in a similar fashion? I take it that what you find to be unusual is the combination of the name with a word that can mean route and not the fact that the location is placed before the name. If it is unusual (and I have no idea what similar combinations may exist in the other 49 states), it's possible because the two words "fit" and other roads don't have words that "fit". Maybe the UK could use a little imagination in road naming. Why not call the A19 Dishforth to Tyne Tunnel project "DishWater"? >> BTW...it's "GreeneWay" where it is written and not "Greeneway". > >Oh, okay. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > > I take it that what you find to be unusual is the combination of the > name with a word that can mean route Naturally. > Maybe the UK could use a little imagination in road naming. I fear that the age of Gropecunt Alley is long past, and never to return. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > that seems utterly unlikely. Can you name any other roads that have > their names constucted in a similar fashion? I can't think of any. I find this "GreeneWay" rather bizarre. There's no question that the name was chosen because "Greene" sounds like "green" and "greenway" is a term, though not in use perhaps, that suggests a way that is pleasantly green. If Greene had been named (= BrE "called") Wojnarowski, I doubt they would have named the thing "WojnarowskiWay". SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> As we all stood and listened, Tony Cooper sung the following words: >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >that is pleasantly green. If Greene had been named (= BrE "called") >Wojnarowski, I doubt they would have named the thing "WojnarowskiWay". We would have called it "Wojagoherefor?" SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > >Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a > >"Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. > > It's a toll road - and Expressway, to us - that was named after Jim > Greene. Jim was an Expressway Authority chairman. It's not uncommon > here to name roads of any kind after "famous" people. Virginia has a toll road named "The Dulles Greenway"[1]. It's named not for a person but for the airport named for John Foster Dulles. Naming a road "Greeneway" after a Mr. Greene is a bit like naming a bridge for Mr. Outerbridge. I suppose it gave the local officials some jollies. Some controlled-access roads in the District of Columbia are named "<Something> Freeway." The radio traffic reporters use such names as "Whitehurst Freeway" and "Southeast-Southwest Freeway." "Whitehurst Freeway" even appears on the highway signs. Whether Virginia has freeways depends on whom you ask. Some people obviously believe so: <http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Virginia_Freeway_HOV.html>. [1] <http://www.virginiadot.org/comtravel/faq-toll.asp>; second listing. SignatureBob Lieblich Who drives these roads Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> had it: > >Miami has some "Expressways". And I see that Orlando has a > >"Greeneway", whatever the heck that would be. > > It's a toll road - and Expressway, to us - that was named after Jim > Greene. Jim was an Expressway Authority chairman. It's not uncommon > here to name roads of any kind after "famous" people. Funie Steed! Oops, sorry, I panicked. SignatureDavid ===== >>> Skitt sung the following words: >>>>> Further data points: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > daughter. No local, though, would direct me to the J. Turner Butler > Freeway. You mean, my calling those roads freeways when I lived there didn't take? Rats! Never mind, then. I, obviously, was confused by all the people who do call them freeways. Most of them are non-Floridians, though, but look at this: http://rip.trb.org/browse/dproject.asp?n=9140 Genuine totally official Florida stuff. Just for fun, but only for fun, look also at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Florida_Freeway.jpg SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >> Another link - http://www.swamphen.net/roads/diagrams/ - titles the >> page "freeways", but none of the routes listed are *called* freeways. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >do call them freeways. Most of them are non-Floridians, though, but look at >this: Oh, I have no doubt that "freeway" can be found in references. My point was that *locals* don't call any of the roads "freeways". If anyone stops me and asks for directions to the (name) freeway, I'd bet the farm that they either have out-of-state plates or are driving a rental car. On-air traffic reports never say "freeway". Politicians running for office don't promise to ease congestion on our "freeways". Some guy in Tallahassee who uses "freeway" in something he's written is probably a transplanted Californian or a recent graduate with some sort of degree in transportation where he's used to the word in his reading. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Tony Cooper filted: >Some guy in Tallahassee who uses "freeway" in something he's written >is probably a transplanted Californian or a recent graduate with some >sort of degree in transportation where he's used to the word in his >reading. "That's my rock and roll madonna. She's always been a lady of the road. Everybody wants her But no one ever gets her. The freeway is the only way she knows." - Californian lyricist Bernie Taupin ....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >On the other hand, I now know that some American cities name their >roads "Pike", which can only be a good thing. In general the cities don't name them "pike"; rather they inherit the name from very olden days when they were turnpikes, mostly privately owned toll roads. ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. > In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and > "expressway" are used, with the same meaning. I would believe that. > Elsewhere in the U.S., "freeway" and "expressway" have different meanings. Only among a handful of people who have both concepts, I assert. SignatureMark Brader | "Opening a monitor case is not for the inexperienced Toronto | or the faint of heart, unless you need msb@vex.net | defibrillation." -- Kevin D. Swan >> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and >> "expressway" are used, with the same meaning. > > I would believe that. I'm not sure I do. Erk, do Chicagoans use "freeway"? >> Elsewhere in the U.S., "freeway" and "expressway" have different meanings. > > Only among a handful of people who have both concepts, I assert. I support that assertion. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >>> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >>> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I'm not sure I do. Erk, do Chicagoans use "freeway"? No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially named the "Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet Expressway".) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially named the >"Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet Expressway".) Actually, it's part of Interstate 94, not 57, from the Dan Ryan junction to the Tri-State Tollway. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially named the >>"Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet Expressway".) > > Actually, it's part of Interstate 94, not 57, from the Dan Ryan > junction to the Tri-State Tollway. Interesting Google results: chicago "bishop ford freeway" 508 chicago "bishop ford expressway" 566 "bishop ford freeway" 543 "bishop ford expressway" 642 I submit that the majority of Erk's compatriots in Chicago are not calling it the "Bishop Ford Freeway" and do not think of it as a "freeway", whatever its Liebso-Erkian name might be. SignatureBuckwheat Soba As we all stood and listened, Buckwheat Soba sung the following words: > > > No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially named > > > the "Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > calling it the "Bishop Ford Freeway" and do not think of it as a > "freeway", whatever its Liebso-Erkian name might be. Both the Illinois Department of Transportation and the Cook County government [?] are calling it an "Expressway". http://www.dot.state.il.us No point in giving the website for Cook County, they don't bother giving their users a search facility... SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > Both the Illinois Department of Transportation and the Cook County > government [?] are calling it an "Expressway". Interestingly, if I'm reading the statutes correctly, "freeway" has been a term of art in Illinois law since at least 1959: Sec. 2-212. Freeway-A highway or street especially designed for through traffic, and to, from, or over which owners of or persons having an interest in abutting land or other persons have no right or easement or only a limited right or easement of access, crossing, light, air, or view by reason of the fact that such property abuts upon such highway or street or for any other reason. (Source: Laws 1959, p. 196.) Of course, the same statute defines "highway" in a way that would never be used by ordinary people: Sec. 2-202. Highway-any public way for vehicular travel which has been laid out in pursuance of any law of this State, or of the Territory of Illinois, or which has been established by dedication, or used by the public as a highway for 15 years, or which has been or may be laid out and connect a subdivision or platted land with a public highway and which has been dedicated for the use of the owners of the land included in the subdivision or platted land where there has been an acceptance and use under such dedication by such owners, and which has not been vacated in pursuance of law. The term "highway" includes rights of way, bridges, drainage structures, signs, guard rails, protective structures and all other structures and appurtenances necessary or convenient for vehicular traffic. A highway in a rural area may be called a "road", while a highway in a municipal area may be called a "street". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Pious Jews have a category of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |questions that can harmlessly be Palo Alto, CA 94304 |allowed to go without an answer |until the Messiah comes. I suspect kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |that this is one of them. (650)857-7572 | Joseph C. Fineman http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ As we all stood and listened, Evan Kirshenbaum sung the following words: > > Both the Illinois Department of Transportation and the Cook County > > government [?] are calling it an "Expressway". [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > called a "road", while a highway in a municipal area may be called > a "street". It seems to approximate to the English "dedicated highway", insofar as I understand the latter term; although I doubt our version specifically includes the fixtures and fittings! SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" >>>No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially named the >>>"Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet Expressway".) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > calling it the "Bishop Ford Freeway" and do not think of it as a > "freeway", whatever its Liebso-Erkian name might be. I'd be willing to bet that most of them who don't think of it as "the Calumet" just call it "the Bishop Ford" and think of it as an expressway. It's only, apparently, New Yorkers that get hung up about whether the descriptive part of its name is "street" or an "avenue" or the like. Interestingly, looking back at the Trib and Sun-Times from '96, when the road was renamed, I saw absolutely no mention of it being an unusual name for a Chicago road. I'm not sure what that says. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |English grammar is not taught in 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |primary or secondary schools in the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |United States. Sometimes some |mythology is taught under that kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |rubric, but luckily it's usually (650)857-7572 |ignored, except by the credulous. | John Lawler http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ As we all stood and listened, Evan Kirshenbaum sung the following words: > > > > No need to ask Mr. Kirshenbaum; Interstate 57 is officially > > > > named the "Bishop Ford Freeway". (It used to be the "Calumet [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > whether the descriptive part of its name is "street" or an "avenue" or > the like. It's bloody confusing for us Brits, too! Encountering road maps and phonebooks, and sometimes even roadsigns, that omit what seems a major part of road's name just feels plain odd. It's a bit like willfully omitting a person's surname... > Interestingly, looking back at the Trib and Sun-Times from '96, when > the road was renamed, I saw absolutely no mention of it being an > unusual name for a Chicago road. I'm not sure what that says. Was "Bishop Ford" a bishop, or a double-barrelled surname, or first name plus surname, or just something else entirely? SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > Was "Bishop Ford" a bishop, or a double-barrelled surname, or first > name plus surname, or just something else entirely? Louis Henry Ford was a Chicago bishop who died in 1995. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |I like giving talks to industry, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |because one of the things that I've Palo Alto, CA 94304 |found is that you really can't |learn anything at the Harvard kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |Business School. (650)857-7572 | Clayton Christensen | Harvard Business School http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ As we all stood and listened, Evan Kirshenbaum sung the following words: > > Was "Bishop Ford" a bishop, or a double-barrelled surname, or first > > name plus surname, or just something else entirely? > > Louis Henry Ford was a Chicago bishop who died in 1995. I guess he was either popular, influential, or had friends in high places. Well, I suppose a bishop would claim the latter; but you knew what I meant! There are a lot of things round here named after a local bishop, but he died in the sixteenth century... Actually, he was popular locally as a result of being lousy at his job; he wasn't actually the bishop for this area, but rather of somewhere in another county, which I believe he semi-looted in order to plough cash into his hometown. A true local hero! SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > It's only, apparently, New Yorkers that get hung up about > whether the descriptive part of its name is "street" or an "avenue" or > the like. Oh, many others as well; what with the new developments springing up and a sever lack of imagination on the part of developers, you get "Songbook Lane", which dead-ends on "Songbook Way", which has spurs off it named "Songbook Road", "Songbook Drive", and "Songbook Avenue". I don't know if they deliberately do it to make it hard for ambulances to find the right house, but it's a common complaint by drivers. -=Eric, who gets the feeling this has been discussed before As we all stood and listened, Eric Schwartz sung the following words: > > It's only, apparently, New Yorkers that get hung up about > > whether the descriptive part of its name is "street" or an "avenue" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't know if they deliberately do it to make it hard for ambulances > to find the right house, but it's a common complaint by drivers. A similar problem with a quite different cause is where a road exists in several sections. Something like this: _______________________________________ \_____/ \________/ where the two roads that loop back to the same starting road have the same name as each other. In fact, I once came across a road that was something like this: _________ __________ __________________/_________\____________________/__________\_______ \_____/ \________/ where the "looping-off" sections on either side of the "main" road had the same name on both sides. Except I'm fairly certain that *some* of the sections didn't have the same name, so that the odd additional looping section with a different name appeared between the other sections that had the other name. You can imagine the fun of looking for a particular number; you're driving along, counting off house numbers, when not only does the road run out before you've got to the number you want, but you're back on the road you turned off from previously! This was somewhere in Suffolk, if my memory serves me correctly. SignatureA. Gwilliam To e-mail me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "devnull" > Eric Schwartz sung: >>> It's only, apparently, New Yorkers that get hung up about >>> whether the descriptive part of its name is "street" or an "avenue" [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > This was somewhere in Suffolk, if my memory serves me correctly. That wouldn't be much of a problem with the American numbering system, where numbers increase on all parallel or semi-parallel streets at the same rate. If the main street were Grackle Road, then each little loop would be Grackle Circle. One could drive along Grackle Road until the proper number range appeared on it, and then switch over to Grackle Circle and find the desired address. Very easy around here. Chopped-up streets are not unusual in US cities, and many maps indicate the approximate house numbering ranges to help people find the right street segment. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > That wouldn't be much of a problem with the American numbering system, where > numbers increase on all parallel or semi-parallel streets at the same rate. Only if Manhattan isn't in America (APII). > Chopped-up streets are not unusual in US cities, and many maps indicate the > approximate house numbering ranges to help people find the right street > segment. In some places the street signs themselves give you the address numbering range. I'll admit that that's theoretically useful, but I think it's of practical use only in a place like Chicago (TLCIA) where you have a fairly robust grid system. New York (LCIA) doesn't do that, and it could come in handy on north-south Manhattan avenues, at least. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >>> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >>> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I support that assertion. Well, see how you are? Tsk, tsk. I mean, really! Come around to my place and we'll take a short walk. Down to the corner, that's all. Talking to the people on the way we'll get more than a handful right there. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >>> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I support that assertion. Ditto. (Thritto?) Around Detroit, the words "expressway" and "freeway" are pretty much interchangeable. And the Interstate (highway) is often called an expressway or a freeway, especially within the metropolitan Detroit area. Possibly more often, the words "expressway," "freeway," "highway," and "Interstate" are dropped entirely: "Take 75 to the Davison to the John Lodge to 94 and go west to the airport." (More details would be given to someone not familiar with the environs/vicinity.) SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >> [I wrote:] >> Elsewhere in the U.S., "freeway" and "expressway" have different meanings. > >Only among a handful of people who have both concepts, I assert. I believe most drivers in Santa Clara County, California, know the difference even if they can't explain it in technical terms, and that's rather more than "a handful of people". -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Only among a handful of people who have both concepts, I assert. There's more than a handful of them on my block alone. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. > In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and > "expressway" are used, with the same meaning. If that's true of Illinois, it's a new thing and one I haven't noticed on trips back. They were all "expressways", with the possible exception of the ones that were "tollways" when I was growing up there. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If we have to re-invent the wheel, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |can we at least make it round this Palo Alto, CA 94304 |time? kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> The "expressway" states are New York and the six New England states. >> In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Indiana, and Illinois, both "freeway" and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on trips back. They were all "expressways", with the possible > exception of the ones that were "tollways" when I was growing up there. Erk, that is certainly still true of the official terminology used in the Chicago area. Downstate Ellanoy might be different FAIK (though I once did some driving round about there too). SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> If that's true of Illinois, it's a new thing and one I haven't noticed >> on trips back. They were all "expressways", with the possible >> exception of the ones that were "tollways" when I was growing up there. > >Erk, that is certainly still true of the official terminology used in the >Chicago area. Not so; see my other reply. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness } I just thought I'd tell y'all that in North Carolina they have things } that, officially at least, are called "freeways". But the National Freeway is in Maryland (Interstate 68). Signaturerjv |
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