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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Re: Learn, Learned & Learnt
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message news:ei0vt6$jcd$1@mouse.otenet.gr... | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". Or LEARNED. Both verbs. | The world [sic] "learned" means "being of great knowledge". An adjective -- and pronounced differently. The Sub Editor of The Argus of Brighton, England is definitely slipping. DSH Veritas Vos Liberabit > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > > Or LEARNED. > > Both verbs. Indeed, but "learnt" is more common in British English, while "learned" is more common in American English. > > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Indeed, but "learnt" is more common in British English, while > "learned" is more common in American English. But American English is more common, period. Over here, if you said that you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your straw hat. It's quite archaic. Saludos, Earle  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>| The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your > straw hat. It's quite archaic. That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British English. Two nations, divided by a common language. > That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British > English. > > Two nations, divided by a common language. Hang on. There are a lot more nations than that that speak non-AmE. SignatureRob Bannister > > That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British > > English. > > > > Two nations, divided by a common language. > > Hang on. There are a lot more nations than that that speak non-AmE. It's also debateable if there is really such a thing as a single British English! There are various British Englishes. Allan >> > That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >> > English. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's also debateable if there is really such a thing as a single British > English! There are various British Englishes. Well quite Ever heard someone from Tavistock 'conversing' with someone from Grimsby? It's not a pretty sight believe me. >>>That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >>>English. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's also debateable if there is really such a thing as a single British > English! There are various British Englishes. Huh! Call those English? The boundaries are Luton and Sevenoaks. SignatureRob Bannister >> That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >> English. >> >> Two nations, divided by a common language. > > Hang on. There are a lot more nations than that that speak non-AmE. I was quoting Churchill. >>> That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >>> English. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I was quoting Churchill. We knew that. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >> English. >> >> Two nations, divided by a common language. > > Hang on. There are a lot more nations than that that speak non-AmE. That's quite true, but they understand the difference. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) >> That's as may be, but I'm not American. I'm British and speak British >> English. >> >> Two nations, divided by a common language. > >Hang on. There are a lot more nations than that that speak non-AmE. She's quoting Churchill vis-a-vis American English and Anglo-English; not all the variations. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > > > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > But American English is more common, period. Not in Britain is isn't! Allan >> > > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not in Britain is isn't! Nor is American English more common globally -- Indian English has all the other varieties beaten hands down. SignatureAndrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) > "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote [...] >> But American English is more common, period. > > Not in Britain is isn't! You might be surprised to learn that most Britons believe that American English is the commonest form of English on Earth. We Yanks don't take that as a compliment. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > > "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote > [...] [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > American English is the commonest form of English on Earth. We Yanks > don't take that as a compliment. Not the point though. Both forms of the word in question are correct. The American version even if it is more common is not more correct. Neither is it very relevant that it is more common. None of the groups being posted to is even particularly American whilst two (scs and scb) are British culture groups. Allan >> > > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Allan Allan, I think it is a 'class' thing. The language of the Upper Classes does not favour words that sound to end abruptly. Whereas 'learnt' is abrupt, 'learned' is not. 'Learned' rolls more easily off a gentrified tongue. ;-) G -- >>> > > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > G You know, I've read some banal threads on SCS, but this surely must be the worst. Mike VERY Thoughtful... And No Doubt True... <g> Vide infra pro sapientia. DSH | > Allan, I think it is a 'class' thing. | > The language of the Upper Classes does not favour words that | > sound to end abruptly. Whereas 'learnt' is abrupt, 'learned' is not. | > 'Learned' rolls more easily off a gentrified tongue. ;-) | > | > G >VERY Thoughtful... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >| > >| > G Watch it Glenallan - Homo Hines is after your arse! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your > straw hat. It's quite archaic. ....more common? Says, who? An American? >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your >straw hat. It's quite archaic. Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like "gotten". >>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like > "gotten". We use it all the time. 'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' Neb >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>>> Indeed, but "learnt" is more common in British English, while >>>> "learned" is more common in American English. Wouldn't that get confused with the adjective 'learned' - not many who would qualify in the USA now I come to think of it. >>>But American English is more common, period. Over here, if you said that >>>you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > 'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' More like; 'Hiv ee gotten a new horse and cart' shirley? 'Gotten' died out in Britain round about the early 18th century SFAIK. Onyways - there hundreds of different froms of English evolving all the time all over the world. None is more correct than the other. They might even have become completely seperate languages in a few hundred years time. I suppose England might have some claim to producing the most 'correct' being as we invented it but in reality there are some pretty disgusting versions of it within our shores too. That execrable 'estuary' English for example - the accent Tony Bliar puts on when he's trying to appeal to a trendy yoof audience - I'd rather listen to 'Bombay English' any day.There are also versions of 'English' in some US urban ghettos that are exclusive to a few hundred thousand speakers and virtualy unintelligable (sp? - sh.t - I really must download a spellchecker) to anyone from outside that ghetto. Is there really a definitive standardised 'American/English' anyway? And who sez so? >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > More like; 'Hiv ee gotten a new horse and cart' shirley? > 'Gotten' died out in Britain round about the early 18th century SFAIK. Still alive and kicking in Doric I'm afraid. 'Ah've gotten an awfa dose o i' caul.' to give another current example. Neb >>>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Still alive and kicking in Doric I'm afraid. I was forgetting that - technically at least - your God-forsaken haar-wreathed permafrost outcrop is still legaly part of Britain. > 'Ah've gotten an awfa dose o i' caul.' to give another current example. 'awfa' !? Have you not evolved into 'affie' even yet? Life in the far east must be even worse than the Red Cross reported. A W-S >>>>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>>>> Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like >>>>> "gotten". Fortunately British English still uses 'forgotten'. >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Wouldn't that get confused with the adjective 'learned' That would depend on pronuciation. In both AmE and BrE "learned" meaning "learnt" is pronounced "lurnd". "Learned" meaning "having much knowledge" is pronouced "lur-nid". Information from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/learned >- not many who would >qualify in the USA now I come to think of it. or in other countries. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > "Learned" meaning "having much knowledge" is pronouced "lur-nid". Aye - I ken tha'. Ah wiz speekin o proaper *ritten* English sae ah wiz. > None is more correct than the other. They might even have become > completely seperate languages in a few hundred years time. Yes, some are more correct than others. Fr'instace, I usually write "separate" because I'm a well educated Estremadurian hidalgo with a certain knowledge of classical languages. Besides, in Spanish we say "separar" and not "seperar". I think you are evolving a little too much, dear Aussy. There was a certain Adam from Australia Who had rather small genitalia He said to his mate: "Your legs, do seperate, because if you don't do it I can't nail ya' LE MARQUIS D E LA PATTE NOIRE >> None is more correct than the other. They might even have become >> completely seperate languages in a few hundred years time. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I think you are evolving a little too much, dear Aussy. Splling mistakes are my trademark. > >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > More like; 'Hiv ee gotten a new horse and cart' shirley? > 'Gotten' died out in Britain round about the early 18th century SFAIK. Not so though. It is used commonly used in Scotland by speakers of English as well as the various Scots dialects. Allan >> >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > Not so though. It is used commonly used in Scotland by speakers of English > as well as the various Scots dialects. I'll take your word for it - I never speak to rural grockles so I wouldn't know. > >> > 'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'll take your word for it - I never speak to rural grockles so I wouldn't > know. Not talking about Scots speakers or any of the rural dialects. I'm talking about so called Scottish Standard English. 'Gotten' is used just as 'pinkie' is used just as 'vennel' is used and 'thrice' is more common than 'three times'. Just a few of the little differences between Standard English and Scottish Standard English. Allan >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' Yes, but that's dialect, not 'standard' English. > >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > > Yes, but that's dialect, not 'standard' English. Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as the various dialects of Scots. Another example is the word 'pinkie' where English people would say little finger. Allan > Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as > the > various dialects of Scots. Gotten and got are not the same thing. The mean different things. In this discussion I can be an impatial judge as I haven't any vested interest in this issue, one way or the other. As a Spanish speaking superior being I couldn't care less whether you use one word or the other, the two, or none of them. I'am merely telling you guys what I have observed personally, because I've lived in both of these two despicable societies and I am familiar with the ways of Guiris from both Atlantic shores. At one time, all Limeyes agreed that the verb get had two past participles: got and gotten. (The past participle is the form of a verb that's used with have, had, or has.) It's true that the Limeyes stopped using "have gotten" about 300 years ago, while Gringos in the Colonies kept using both have got and have gotten. But the result is not that the Pinches Gabardos speak improper English (they do, anyhow). The result is that they have retained a nuance of meaning that the unfortunate lowly Limeyes have lost. Fr'instance, when a Murrikan Preppy ( i.e. Jorton "el Flor de Mayo") says "I have got three Armani suits, he means he has them in his possession. It's simply nother way of saying he has them. But when he says that he has has gotten three Armani suits, he means he's acquired or obtained them. It's a very useful distinction, and one that the Limeyes would do well to reacquire. I pay attention to this nuances because in Spanish we have similar ones. It's not the same to say: "Te he dicho que no vengas" que "Te tengo dicho que no vengas". Again , the difference has nothing to do with mere Geography. What happens is that Gringos has given different semantic value to the pair got-gotten. Usease, "I've got" simply means "I possess" (but is considered informal and incorrect in formal or written usage, although still widely used. It means exactly the same as "I have" and has nothing to do with "I've gotten") "I've gotten" does not mean the same as "I've got", but rather "I have received" or "I have adquired" I'll make it clear: "I've gotten twelve f.cking toasters as wedding presents and I already got one of them, so now I've got a lot of useless stuff in my house" "Gotten is probably the most distinctive of all the Gringo/Limey grammatical differences, but Limey people who try to use it often get it wrong. It is not simply an alternative for have got. Gotten is used in such contexts as They've gotten a new boat. (= obtain) They've gotten interested. (= become) He's gotten off the chair. (= moved) But it is not used in the sense of possession (= have). The Gringo dialect does not allow the sentence "I've gotten the answer" or "'ve gotten plenty" but uses I've got as in informal Limey dialect. The availability of gotten does however mean that Murrikan English can make such distinctions as the following: They've got to leave (they must leave) vs They've gotten to leave (they've managed to leave). If in the future you guys want to use my services as an English Scholar and Expert, you are welcome. I do that free of charge, as a community service. LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in > I'll make it clear: "I've gotten twelve f.cking toasters as wedding > presents and I already got one of them, so now I've got a lot of > useless stuff in my house" Grüß Got! 8-)P =.=.=.=.= Gottess =.=.=.= >"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Gottess >=.=.=.= That's Guten Tag and Grüß Gott! Do try to keep up. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. The Highlander <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in > That's Guten Tag > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do try to keep up. I shall will! :-D =.=.=.=.=. Vegolluna =.=.=.=.= "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in >so now I've got a lot of useless stuff in my house" I've got your gotten context out of context to get an ill-gotten point; but I shall forget it, and get going to get even and get into getting over. 8- )P Got milk?? :-? =.=.=.=.== Gottess =.=.=.= Begoluna <begolun@no.spam> wrote in > Got milk?? :-? http://www.planetinneed.com/ :-D =.=.=.=.= Gottess =.=.=.=.= > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I shall forget it, and get going to get even and get into getting over. 8- > )P Are you certain it's not because you've forgotten already? Deirdre Deirdre Sholto Douglas <finch.enteract@rcn.com> wrote in >> "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in >> >so now I've got a lot of useless stuff in my house" >> I've got your gotten context out of context to get an ill-gotten >> point; but I shall forget it, and get going to get even and get into >> getting over. 8- )P > Are you certain it's not because you've forgotten > already? Perhaps maybe it could be yes certainly true. =.=.=.=.== Vegolluna =.=.=.=.= > > Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as > > the > > various dialects of Scots. > > Gotten and got are not the same thing. The mean different things. The point is though that the word 'gotten' is not used in England. I suspect that 'gotten' survives in the US either directly from being a Scottism (it is still in use in Scotland) or else it used to be used in England too but has since become archaic in that psrt of the UK. I'm not sure which applies. Allan | The point is though that the word 'gotten' is not used in England. I | suspect that 'gotten' survives in the US either directly from being | a Scottism (it is still in use in Scotland) or else it used to be used | in England too but has since become archaic in that part of the | UK. I'm not sure which applies. | Allan Both reasons apply. What are some other common "Scottisms" that have migrated to America? Think of all those Scots-Irish who have tens of millions of descendants in America today -- of whom I am one. So is "Hippo" no doubt. Words which are not used in either England or Wales...today -- but which are used in Scotland. What are the principal dialects of Scots? DSH | > > Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well | > > as the various dialects of Scots. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | I'm not sure which applies. | Allan >> > Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as >> > the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >has since become archaic in that psrt of the UK. I'm not sure which applies. >Allan Both do. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message >> "allan connochie" <allan@EASYNET.CO.UK> wrote in message >>> Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as >>> the various dialects of Scots. >> Gotten and got are not the same thing. The mean different things. > The point is though that the word 'gotten' is not used in England. Make that "was not used". It's not uncommon to find English people using it now, particularly younger English people. At one time it may have been a conscious borrowing from American English usage - people trying to look smart by using language they've picked up from Hollywood productions - but it looks like many younger people now just see it as a natural part of the language and are unaware that older people think of it as an "Americanism". > I suspect that 'gotten' survives in the US either directly from being a > Scottism (it is still in use in Scotland) or else it used to be used in > England too but has since become archaic in that psrt of the UK. I'm not > sure which applies. There was a time when "-en" was a standard suffix to form the past participle, but it has been dwindling away, so that it may only be used with certain verbs, and the number of those has reduced over time. As with any language change, the rate of change differs over time and place. The establishment of literary standards tends to freeze the process, and it just so happened that "gotten" was dropping out of use as literary standards for American and British English were being established, resulting in it remaining in one but not the other. Matthew Huntbach > > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message > >> "allan connochie" <allan@EASYNET.CO.UK> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > participle, but it has been dwindling away, so that it may only be used > with certain verbs, and the number of those has reduced over time. These are called "strong verbs", and the number has stayed more or less at 250, the same as in German, a related language. Every once in a while, one of them becomes regular, but then again a regular verb is made irregular. There seems to be a general trend witnessed in many languages, where the most frequently used verbs are marked in some way that could be called "irregular". Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > There was a time when "-en" was a standard suffix to form the past > participle, but it has been dwindling away, so that it may only be used > with certain verbs, If you look at Germanic and Slavonic languages, it would appear that -n was used primarily for intransitive verbs and -t/-d for transitive. I'm not sure whether this is a proven linguistic theory, though. SignatureRob Bannister > > There was a time when "-en" was a standard suffix to form the past > > participle, but it has been dwindling away, so that it may only be used [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > was used primarily for intransitive verbs and -t/-d for transitive. I'm > not sure whether this is a proven linguistic theory, though. I don't know about Slavonic, but there are numerous examples of modern German transitive verbs with past participles in "-n". Geben, reissen, heben, rufen, saufen, essen, fressen, schiessen, verziehen, zwingen, greifen, etc. After a cursory summary of the table in Linda DeMeritt's "German Grammar", the strong verbs don't appear to represent any particular semantic class over any other. One thing that I have noticed in several languages is that frequently used verbs tend to be irregulars. Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message > >> "allan connochie" <allan@EASYNET.CO.UK> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > of use as literary standards for American and British English were > being established, resulting in it remaining in one but not the other. Interesting post Matthew. I noticed too that the old, and very common, Scots word 'mingin' has made it into mainstream English youth culture now. Allan >> > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message >> >> "allan connochie" <allan@EASYNET.CO.UK> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >Interesting post Matthew. I noticed too that the old, and very common, Scots >word 'mingin' has made it into mainstream English youth culture now. I don't think it's all that old. CSD has is as 'la20'. >> >>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> >>>> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as the >various dialects of Scots. Can't say I've ever noticed it. Must be a localized phenomenon. ard' English. > >Not so the word 'gotten' is used in Scottish Standard English as well as the > >various dialects of Scots. > > Can't say I've ever noticed it. Must be a localized phenomenon. Or maybe you just haven't noticed! Allan >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >Yes, but that's dialect, not 'standard' English. It's not dialect; it's Scots! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > It's not dialect; it's Scots! "Scots: Noun: The dialect of English used in the Lowlands of Scotland." http://www.bartleby.com/61/98/S0159800.html Saludos, Earle Sembrar vientos y cosechar tempestades. Refrán español. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:05:10 +0000, Custos Custodum <me@privacy.net> > > >>'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.bartleby.com/61/98/S0159800.html Not so much a linguistic question rather a political one. Scots has been suppressed for some time hence what had been the national tongue, regarded as distinct from its southern cousin, became regarded by some as a dialect. Actually it was portrayed as 'not speaking properly' and actively disencouraged. Things have changed dramatically in the last couple of decades and Scots is now again officially recognised as one of Scotland's two indiginous minority languages. The Scottish Education system, the Scottish Executive, the Westminster government and the EU all recognise the language under the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. Allan > > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:05:10 +0000, Custos Custodum <me@privacy.net> > > > >>'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Actually it was portrayed as 'not speaking properly' and actively > disencouraged. Things have changed dramatically in the last couple of "discouraged" > decades and Scots is now again officially recognised as one of Scotland's > two indiginous minority languages. The Scottish Education system, the "indigenous" > Scottish Executive, the Westminster government and the EU all recognise > the language under the European Charter for Regional and Minority > Languages. There's nothing wrong with being a dialect of English. I speak one myself. I certainly find the Scots dialect more understandable than some varieties of Southern, or African American, and it's closer to the "Standard" than recognized dialects of German, for example, are to their "Standard" or to each other. Note that the "Standard", RP, or whatever you want to call it certainly is a dialect of English, as is "American Standard" English. What I am saying, is that if you want to have your own language, that is fine with me, but it appears to be more of a political definition. Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:05:10 +0000, Custos Custodum <me@privacy.net> >> > > >>'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > What I am saying, is that if you want to have your own language, that is > fine with me, but it appears to be more of a political definition. Maidiar Jorton: El gaélico es tan ajeno a Escocia como pueda serlo el inglés. Ambas lenguas llegaron de fuera, con sólo unos siglos de diferencia. El verdadero idioma de esos bárbaros boreales es el picto. El gaélico llegó a Escocia alrededor del año 500 después de Chuchito cuando los escotos que llegaron de de Irlanda se asentaron en la costa occidental en lo que se conoce como el Reino de Dal Riada. La Iglesia Católica desempeñó un papel clave en los comienzos, al difundir el uso del Gaélico a través de toda Escocia. San Columbano (que le den por el ano) y otros misioneros llevaron el Cristianismo a los pictos, una tribus habitaban sobre todo el centro y el norte de Escocia. Alrededor del año 840 los pictos y los escotos se unieron bajo el reinado de Kenneth MacAlpine y poco a poco el gaélico estableció sus dominios sobre toda Escocia al norte del río Forth. El picto, idioma acerca del cual se conoce muy poco, fue reemplazado por el gaélico. Las crónicas de esta época nos han llegado a través del trabajo de Adamnán y de otros misioneros que escribían en Latín. Sus manuscritos fueron conservados en los monasterios durante siglos, aunque muchos fueron destruidos o se extraviaron con los ataques de los vikingos a esas costas. Es decir, el gaélico solamente llegó a Escocia unos tres siglos antes del inglés, lo que no nada del otro mundo y no merece los aspavientos que hace el señor Jailander sobre el tema. El gaélico fue el lenguaje de la corte de los reyes de Escocia durante unos trescientos años porque alrededor del año 1100 el inglés fue introducido de la mano de la Reina Margarita, esposa de Malcolm Canmore e hija del rey de los Anglos. Así comenzó el progresivo alejamiento de la Corona Escocesa de los pueblos que hablaban esa jerigonza . El último rey escocés que habló gaélico con sus súbditos fue Jaime IV (circa 1500). A partir de entonces el Gaélico comenzó su larga decadencia, hasta el estado es el que está en nuestros dias, es decir, practicamente extinto. Escribo esta nota más que nada para molestar al puto Jailander, a quien le jode sobremanera que se envien notas en castellano a su grupo. El tema del que escribo es pertinente para ese foro, y si Jailander no entiende el castellano, que lo aprenda. Saludos DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR > Escribo esta nota más que nada para molestar al puto Jailander, a quien le > jode sobremanera que se envien notas en castellano a su grupo. El tema del > que escribo es pertinente para ese foro, y si Jailander no entiende el > castellano, que lo aprenda. Quiero aportar mi granito de arena a dicho crossputeo, y para que asi conste firmo de puño y letra, en: Iberia a: 31 de Octubre del 6º Año del 2º Milenio Er Bisho Ibérico "RafaMinu" <rafaminu@gmail.com> wrote in > en: Iberia > a: 31 de Octubre del 6º Año del 2º Milenio ¡¡Jappy All Jallows Wín!! :-) =.=.=.=.= Begoluna =.=.=.=.= > "RafaMinu" <rafaminu@gmail.com> wrote in > > > en: Iberia > > a: 31 de Octubre del 6º Año del 2º Milenio > > ¡¡Jappy All Jallows Wín!! :-) Here in Spain the 1st of November, to conmmemorate our Iberian Ancestry and tribute the fallen ones, that is, everyone who has passed away, with flowers, we celebrate the Day of Each and Every Saint: http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/36/40/39m.jpg > > "RafaMinu" <rafaminu@gmail.com> wrote in > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > away, with flowers, we celebrate the Day of Each and Every Saint: > http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/36/40/39m.jpg Mañana por aquí, el Día de los muertos. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Begoluna wrote: > "RafaMinu" <rafaminu@gmail.com> wrote in > > > en: Iberia > > a: 31 de Octubre del 6º Año del 2º Milenio > > ¡¡Jappy All Jallows Wín!! :-) Here in Spain the 1st of November, to conmmemorate our Iberian Ancestry and tribute the fallen ones, that is, everyone who has passed away, with flowers, we celebrate the Day of Each and Every Saint: http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/36/40/39m.jpg Dia Del Muertos? > Begoluna wrote: >> "RafaMinu" <rafaminu@gmail.com> wrote in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Dia Del Muertos? Día de Todos los Santos y de los Fieles Difuntos. ( Day of All Saints and All Deceased Members of the Faith) It's the day to visit your dead relatives at the cemetery. It's the night to play Don Juna Tenorio in all theaters ( This is a long established tradition in Spain) Bueno, me doy el piro, señores. Me voy de viaje unos días, por ahí de picos pardos, a disfrutar de los placeres de la carne, que uno no es de piedra. Saludos DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR >> > > On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 15:05:10 +0000, Custos Custodum <me@privacy.net> >> > > >>'Hiv ee gotten a new car?' [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > >Earle This is rather a sharp turn from your insulting post about the Scots Leid a thread or two up, where you demonstrated that Scots, far from being a "dialect" of English, was foreign enough that you were unable to translate it. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > Not so much a linguistic question rather a political one. Scots has been > suppressed for some time hence what had been the national tongue, regarded > as distinct from its southern cousin, became regarded by some as a dialect. Was it really a national tongue? Surely, in its heyday, the northern and western parts of the nation still spoke Gaelic. Or is Scotland defined as the part south of a line drawn from Glasgow to Edinburgh? SignatureRob Bannister > > Not so much a linguistic question rather a political one. Scots has > > been suppressed for some time hence what had been the national [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > defined as the part south of a line drawn from Glasgow to > Edinburgh? I suspect that what applies here is a "dialectic continuum", where one can detect slight differences between neighboring communities, that amount to unintelligibility over large distance. Calling "Scots" and "English" distinct languages is probably an oversimplification. If the Scots had more power they could call "English" a corrupted dialect of "Scots". Then the Anglos would have had to petition the EU for "language" status. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>>Not so much a linguistic question rather a political one. Scots has >>>been suppressed for some time hence what had been the national [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > power they could call "English" a corrupted dialect of "Scots". Then the > Anglos would have had to petition the EU for "language" status. I think you're oversimplifying too. It would be truer to say that if England hadn't been politically centralised so early on, that Geordie and other English dialects would have had a justification to claim language status. English developed mainly from Anglo-Saxon, but in Scotland and NE England, the Viking influence was much stronger. SignatureRob Bannister >> Not so much a linguistic question rather a political one. Scots has been >> suppressed for some time hence what had been the national tongue, regarded [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >western parts of the nation still spoke Gaelic. Or is Scotland defined >as the part south of a line drawn from Glasgow to Edinburgh? Excellent point and also correct. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > http://www.bartleby.com/61/98/S0159800.html It's wrong. Dictionaries often are. Especially American ones >>> >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >It's wrong. Dictionaries often are. Especially American ones Dopnm't waste your time - this one is all wind and self-promotion. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> >>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> >>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >http://www.bartleby.com/61/98/S0159800.html Well, if you use an English reference book, what do you expect? Both Scots and English are descended from the same language - Old Northumbrian. The English were conquered by the Normans.so their language changed quite dramatically as about one half of the language now uses French-origin words. Scots does not and is listed as a separate language by the European Union. I doubt very much that you could understand much Scots without the aid of a dictionary. As I speak several languages, I am fairly sure of my ground concerning the languages used in my country and feel well qualified to speak to the matter, particularly as I am a fluent Scots speaker, being a Scot. This is a very political subject in Scotland and we have been getting this bullshit thrown at us for centuries by Anglos who think they know best what goes on in our country. Here's a small chat in Scots from a couple of days ago in reply to someone else. Perhaps you would translate it into English and post it in the same thread? >>Dinna dicht yer airse wi a breuk bottle! >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Awa hame ye clartie, donnart callant! Ye hae muckle knapdarlochs >hingin aa ower ye! Bueno suerte! . >Earle >Sembrar vientos y cosechar tempestades. Refrán español. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average Englishman or woman? Historical, Genetic, Cultural, Psychological, Linguistic & Sociological Reasons Only... DSH Veritas Vos Liberabit I heard it was all that Norse blood. That's where the red hair comes from, anyway. Saludos, Earle > Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average > Englishman or woman? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Veritas Vos Liberabit SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com That certainly helps. DSH |I heard it was all that Norse blood. That's where the red hair comes from, | anyway. | | Saludos, | | Earle | > Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average | > Englishman or woman? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | > | > Veritas Vos Liberabit > That certainly helps. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > from, > | anyway. ..of course it is the Norse...! >I heard it was all that Norse blood. That's where the red hair comes from, It has been shown from genetic research that Picts are 80% Spanish. There is always a retarded child in every large family and the Hispanic family is no different than the others. LA BESTIA IBERICA > Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average > Englishman or woman? Dear Sir: Being more intelligent than an Englishman is not a tremendous accomplishment. The goddamned Picts are also taller that the Pigmys and thinner than the Samoans. LA BESTIA IBERICA > Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average > Englishman or woman? > > Historical, Genetic, Cultural, Psychological, Linguistic & Sociological > Reasons Only... Different education system and different laws. Is there as large an Underclass in Scotland as there is in England [percentage-wise]? How about the Underclass in Wales -- how does it compare to the other two? DSH | > Why are Scots so much more intelligent and broad-gauge than the average | > Englishman or woman? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | Different education system and different laws. How So? Impact? DSH > Is there as large an Underclass in Scotland as there is in England > [percentage-wise]? > > How about the Underclass in Wales -- how does it compare to the other two? I don't know particularly about the underclasses of Scotland and Wales, but there is a much lower percentage of house ownership in Scotland than in England. (That may be slowly changing, but I don't know enough about it.) Whether or not that has any bearing on any percentages of underclass, I couldn't say. ... > This is a very political subject in Scotland and we have been > getting this bullshit thrown at us for centuries by Anglos who > think they know best what goes on in our country. Why did you consent to the union of the crowns then? Thought it would get you some advantage, didn't you? Your royal family certainly enjoyed lording it over the Anglos, until their line perished of natural causes, didn't they? Turnabout is fair play, you know. Next time someone offers you a big juicy plum like the throne of England, don't take it. It's like Greeks bearing gifts. I really don't care that the EU grants you status as a language, but please recognize that this is a political concession. In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college degree and even a doctorate, taking courses taught only in Basque. In fact, I heard some Spanish students grumbling about the unavailability of certain essential courses in Spanish. Now that sort of parity is something you Scots speakers could shoot for. > Here's a small chat in Scots from a couple of days ago in reply to > someone else. Perhaps you would translate it into English and post it > in the same thread? Translated into Scots English: "Dinna dicht yer airse wi a breuk bottle!" "Alan" "Aye, Ah kin aye Iippen oan ye whan Ah'm owre perjink tae pet ma ain haun intae thi cludgie..." "Awa hame ye clartie, donnart callant! Ye hae muckle knapdarlochs hingin aa ower ye!" > Bueno suerte! That's "¡Buena suerte!" Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com <clipped self-promoting wittering> >> Here's a small chat in Scots from a couple of days ago in reply to >> someone else. Perhaps you would translate it into English and post it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >"Awa hame ye clartie, donnart callant! Ye hae muckle knapdarlochs hingin aa >ower ye!" As you were unable to translate the Scots above, my point has been made. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > <clipped self-promoting wittering> You clipped all the stuff that you were unable to answer, as you are wont to do. That part about the Union of the Crowns seemed like a boon at first, didn't it? Oh yes, "King of England and Scotland", I'll bet you thought you were putting one over on the gullible Anglos, now didn't you? ... > As you were unable to translate the Scots above, my point > has been made. Not necessarily. The problem may just be the spelling. I have seen Star Trek, you know, and I am accustomed to hearing Scotty's utterances. "I canna' change the laws of Physics, cap'n!" There are many language/dialect systems, that have drifted even further apart than Scots and English. I wish that I could remember who first said, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy". My compliments on finally getting yours. I notice a plethora of web sites on the Scots language, all with title pages in English, now that you've got your regional pride back. There is nothing wrong with that of course. I notice that you also have "varieties" of Scots (other word for "dialect"). Prithee tell me, which one has the most prestige? Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> <clipped self-promoting wittering> > >You clipped all the stuff that you were unable to answer, as you are wont to >do. That part about the Union of the Crowns seemed like a boon at first, >didn't it? Oh yes, "King of England and Scotland", I'll bet you thought you >were putting one over on the gullible Anglos, now didn't you? I can't remember writing that, especially as I am normally meticulous in separating the King of Scots (not Scotland, which legally belongs to the people, while the people belong to the King; thus "King of Scots") from the King of England. However, if it makes you happy, it doesn't bother me. I am always glad to explain or expand matters which interest people who really want to know about their ancestors and their customs, etc., but as your and your companions' only intrest is in picking up fresh material to slag the Scots with, I have little interest in furthering your education in matters Scottish. One thing I have noticed is how inferior your educations are compared to the Scots. We know a great deal more about your culture than you seem to know about ours. Still, as the people who built the Brtitish Empire and handed it back intact to its natives, instead of raping it mercilessly for every last peso, I suppose that is what makes the difference bwtween our proud and highly regarded country, as opposed to yours and to the collection of third world countries which comprise the gutted remnants of the Spanish Empire. I gather from your Spanish that you are from Texas or New Mexico - it has that "local yokel" flavour. Anyway, that's it. You can trot off now and play with your friends. >> As you were unable to translate the Scots above, my point >> has been made. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >(other word for "dialect"). Prithee tell me, which one has the most >prestige? I personally favour Lallans beause that's what I learned to speak. but Neb would tell you, Doric. >Saludos, > >Earle The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > >> <clipped self-promoting wittering> > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to the people, while the people belong to the King; thus "King of > Scots") from the King of England. "The people belong to the King", now that's a modern idea. David Hume would be turning over in his grave. Grammatically at least, it would seem that the King belongs to the people, just the opposite of what you say. Maybe possessives work al revés from normal English grammar in Scots. It's been about 400 years since anyone has been able to separate the King (or Queen) of England from the King of Scotland, by the way. (That's not because they are sweet on each other, but rather because they are the same person.) > However, if it makes you happy, it doesn't bother me. I am always glad > to explain or expand matters which interest people who really want to > know about their ancestors and their customs, etc., but as your and > your companions' only intrest is in picking up fresh material to slag > the Scots with, I have little interest in furthering your education in > matters Scottish. No, I am really interested in whether you have all the trappings of a language or two, or whether you have, as the French call it, various "patois", composed of remnants of dialects of modern and dead languages. You know people are trying to revive Cornish? > One thing I have noticed is how inferior your educations are compared > to the Scots. We know a great deal more about your culture than you > seem to know about ours. Still, as the people who built the Brtitish I'm from Boston, pendejo. I went to Yale. I know quite a bit about the history of England and Ireland, but somehow my education in matters relating to Scots folk life was neglected, perhaps because of its reduced importance in the global scheme of things, and even apparently in Scotland. We do learn about Scottish Enlightment thinkers here, enough to know that they all wrote in English, as did Robert Burns, but the knowledge of campesino culture is limited to Monty Python and Mel Gibson. Is there any more to it than that? > Empire and handed it back intact to its natives, instead of raping it > mercilessly for every last peso, I suppose that is what makes the > difference bwtween our proud and highly regarded country, as opposed > to yours and to the collection of third world countries which comprise > the gutted remnants of the Spanish Empire. History records a number of failed or abandoned Scottish settlements of the New World, the most notable of which is the Darién Scheme, the disastrous failure of which contributed to the Acts of Union in 1707. Afterwards, "British" people built the British empire. My ancestors were well ahead of you, establishing a still thriving settlement in Plymouth, Massachusetts in 1620. > I gather from your Spanish that you are from Texas or New Mexico - it > has that "local yokel" flavour. Anyway, that's it. You can trot off > now and play with your friends. I'm from Boston, pendejo. I went to Yale. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I'm from Boston, pendejo. I went to Yale. I know quite a bit about the > history of England and Ireland, but somehow my education in matters relating > to Scots folk life was neglected, perhaps because of its reduced importance > in the global scheme of things, and even apparently in Scotland. We do > learn about Scottish Enlightment thinkers here, enough to know that they all > wrote in English, as did Robert Burns, Burns wrote some work in standard English though his best known poems are written in Scots (or a mixmax of Scots and English) either his Ayrshire dialect or a semi-standard based on the Lothian dialect. Often he mixed everything up like the switching between standard English and Scots in "Tam o Shanter" to evoke moods. It is a double edged sword though. The likes of Ramsay and Burns certainly were a great boon to Scots in keeping it alive as a literary language however the new way they took to writing Scots has been largely abandoned now. Many of the anglicised spellings have become pretty standard but the use of the apostrophe to make it look like it is mispronounced English is a bit of a no no. Allan "The Highlander" < > However, if it makes you happy, it doesn't bother me. I am always glad > to explain or expand matters which interest people who really want to > know about their ancestors and their customs, etc., but as your and > your companions' only intrest is in picking up fresh material to slag > the Scots with, I have little interest in furthering your education in > matters Scottish. Ha!! Chick chick chick!!...Chicken Chicken Chicken.!!!...Brrrr Brrr Chk chk chk!!! > One thing I have noticed is how inferior your educations are compared > to the Scots. We know a great deal more about your culture than you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to yours and to the collection of third world countries which comprise > the gutted remnants of the Spanish Empire. You know that Tiglath's right, don't you? Somebody says something that flattens ye, and your only defene is to say: you too!! You too!! Liar liar pants on fire! Just as wee bairns are you, man...Only dif...ha! y're worse, worse, worse, infinitely, hopelessly, and totally worse. Not a single novel idea!! Typical of your sort, a charaid, typical. Oscar > I gather from your Spanish that you are from Texas or New Mexico - it > has that "local yokel" flavour. Anyway, that's it. You can trot off [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > The views expressed in this post are > not necessarily those of The Highlander. ... > Typical of your sort, a charaid, typical. ¿Charade? Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official > recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college > degree and even a doctorate, taking courses taught only in Basque. In > fact, I heard some Spanish students grumbling about the unavailability > of certain essential courses in Spanish. Now that sort of parity is > something you Scots speakers could shoot for. Not a good analogy, because Basque is indisputably a separate language, no-one could say it's just a dialect of Spanish. On the other hand, Spain does well illustrate the issue, since there are various languages and dialects spoken there, and the issue of what is a dialect and what is a separate language is controversial. Catalan is accepted as a separate language, but was long suppressed, and it seems Valencian is now being seen as separate from Catalan. The real issue here is that there isn't a hard definition of where a dialect ends and a language begins. When you said in an earlier message that you found "Scots dialect" easy to understand, I suspect you meant English with a light Scottish accent, such as might be heard from many educated Scots, and also in the Scottish Highlands (whose regular English comes about due to a few generations ago it having been learnt as a second language by Gaelic speakers). There certainly are varieties of language spoken in Scotland which are much more distinctively separate from standard English. Matthew Huntbach > > In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official > > recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > separate language, but was long suppressed, and it seems Valencian is > now being seen as separate from Catalan. Catalonia is possibly a better example, but I have never been there, and so don't possess authority to speak of it, and they don't have nearly the political independence that the Basques have. Gain control of the educational system, at all levels, make fluency in your language a prerequisite to civil service and employment in the police force, and get everything translated into your local language, whether people are actually reading it or not. Make all the street and place name signs bilingual, and turn a blind eye when someone paints over the Spanish versions. Then at least tourists have to learn that Vitoria is also called Gasteiz. The Basques are spending a lot of money on preserving and expanding their language, and from what I have seen it is reversing the trend of language loss. Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have ability to speak it, and 75% claim to be "Basque", that is to say belonging to the same culture as the language. Many people claim to be "Scots", but what it that exactly? > The real issue here is that there isn't a hard definition of where a > dialect ends and a language begins. When you said in an earlier message [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of language spoken in Scotland which are much more distinctively > separate from standard English. The real issue is a political issue. Many people will not believe that a "variety" that is not spoken by educated people is worthy to be called a "language". Symbolic acts are just that, symbolic acts, but at every official act that I went to in the Basque country, the opening announcement was always done in Basque. It may have been read by a person not fluent in the language, and not using the proper accent (very important to native speakers) but there was always something presented in Basque. The moral I took away was clear to me. Educated people speak Basque, or at least try to, in the Basque Country. And they don't want anyone for Lehendakari (President) who is not a fluent speaker. Highlander produced an unintelligible (to me) string of Roman characters, claiming that this was evidence that Scots is a separate language, but many of the words looked familiar, and who knows what they actually sound like? Anglo Saxon is equally unintelligible to me. The difference between a living "language" and an archaic version of a Western Germanic dialect, is something to be decided in the political arena. And an EU declaration is not the same as real political power, such as I saw at work in the Basque country and is reputed to exist in Catalonia. The fact that Highland Gaelic speakers tend to learn English (I already knew that) is also suspect. If this fellow speaks Scots, as he claims, well then how can he be a Highlander? Reality is often like a bath in a highland stream. (I live in a sort of highland area too.) Rarely pleasant, but rumored to be good for you. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have ability > to speak it, and 75% claim to be "Basque", that is to say belonging to the > same culture as the language. "Claim" is a good word for it. The great majority of them "bullshit" a few sentencences learnt in a manual or in a two weeks course and then "claim" to be native speakers, a prestigious thing to be because ethnic nationalisme is the current collective hysteria in the area. More or less like the Gaelic spoken by the so-called Highlander in this ng. There is the famous anecdote of a large gathering of Basque nationalists with lots of speeches being delivered to the crowd. An anouncement was made and at the end everybody started to aplaud and cheer. It turn out that the announcement was about a missing child wearing a red sweater lost in the crowd. His mother was standing at the door waiting for anyone finding the child to bring him there. In Vitoria and practically the entire province of Alava no Basque was spoken for centuries. My nephews have lived in San Sebastian for most of their lives and despite his father bein 100 % pure Basque and all the "inmersion" programs at the the schools they can hardly say two dozens sentences in this language In summary, bullshit of bullshits and nothig but bullshit. Ethnic nationalism can destroy a country. Don't open the Pandora's box. DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR > Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it > > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > nationalisme is the current collective hysteria in the area. More or less > like the Gaelic spoken by the so-called Highlander in this ng. The Highlander speaks both Gaelic and Scots, a rarity as far as I have heard. One can draw one's own conclusion from this circumstance. I have. > There is the famous anecdote of a large gathering of Basque nationalists > with lots of speeches being delivered to the crowd. An anouncement was > made and at the end everybody started to aplaud and cheer. > It turn out that the announcement was about a missing child wearing a "Turns out" or "turned out". > red sweater lost in the crowd. His mother was standing at the door > waiting for anyone finding the child to bring him there. LOL. > In Vitoria and practically the entire province of Alava no Basque was > spoken for centuries. My nephews have lived in San Sebastian for > most of their lives and despite his father bein 100 % pure Basque and > all the "inmersion" programs at the the schools "Immersion" Many Spanish words that begin with "inm-" in Spanish begin with "imm-" in the true mother tongue of the Scots. "Being", "bein" is dialect, and low social class dialect at that. Tsk. > they can hardly say two dozens sentences in this language Thank you. I suspected as much, but they are trying, and the Basque Autonomous Region keeps throwing money at this issue. Money is marvelous, amazing stuff, isn't it? ¿Tienes familia que habla vascuence, maqueto? "two dozen" > In summary, bullshit of bullshits and nothig but bullshit. Ethnic > nationalism can destroy a country. Don't open the Pandora's box. I am going to take you seriously, something I never ever thought I would do. What does one do, in a country founded upon principles of ethnic nationalism (England, Spain, USA, France), to restore or preserve one's own proper culture? Methods of ethnic nationalism is how they all got to speak English, Spanish or French in the first place. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > "Immersion" Many Spanish words that begin with "inm-" in Spanish begin > with > "imm-" in the true mother tongue of the Scots. "Being", "bein" is > dialect, > and low social class dialect at that. Tsk. I know all this, don't patronize me, you Mayflowerian c.nt. A couple of typos here and there are to be expected from anyone. > Thank you. I suspected as much, but they are trying, and the Basque > Autonomous Region keeps throwing money at this issue. Money is marvelous, > amazing stuff, isn't it? ¿Tienes familia que habla vascuence, maqueto? I do speak a little. I have family who do speak vascuence, but they are in-laws ( or should I say out-laws?) >> In summary, bullshit of bullshits and nothig but bullshit. Ethnic >> nationalism can destroy a country. Don't open the Pandora's box. > I am going to take you seriously, something I never ever thought I would > do. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > culture? Methods of ethnic nationalism is how they all got to speak > English, Spanish or French in the first place. El que quiera hablar la jerigonza atapuerka que la hable, allá cada cual con sus neuras, pero que no le toque los cojones al prójimo con esos rollos macabeos. Eso es todo. Por cierto hoy me voy de vacaciones. Durante unos cuantos días no participaré en el foro . Aprovecha para meterte conmigo ahora que no puedo contestarte y retorcerte el escorto con mi superior ingenio. GURRIATO ... > Por cierto hoy me voy de vacaciones. Durante unos cuantos días > no participaré en el foro . Aprovecha para meterte conmigo ahora > que no puedo contestarte y retorcerte el escorto con mi superior > ingenio. Entiendo bien que es una maniobra para salvarte la cara. Que disfrutes de "las vacaciones". Saludos, Earle > GURRIATO SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > ... >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Entiendo bien que es una maniobra para salvarte la cara. Que disfrutes de > "las vacaciones". ¿Salvarse la cara? La primera vez que veo eso en español.."Save face" yo lo traduciría como "salvar el honor" o quizas "preservar el honor" > > ... > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ¿Salvarse la cara? La primera vez que veo eso en español.."Save face" > yo lo traduciría como "salvar el honor" o quizas "preservar el honor" Gracias por aclarármelo. El español carece de ciertas metáforas las que son comunes en el inglés. Espero que el Gurriato adivine el sentido, porque es experto en todas las lenguas. (It appears that there is no way to "save face" in Spanish, because one cannot lose it. They do, however, have the conception of honor.) Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com "Earle Horton" <anglocapitalista@usa.com> wrote in message news:4548ac99$0$12108 >> ¿Salvarse la cara? La primera vez que veo eso en español.."Save face" >> yo lo traduciría como "salvar el honor" o quizas "preservar el honor" [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (It appears that there is no way to "save face" in Spanish, because one > cannot lose it. They do, however, have the conception of honor.) honoUr :-) Me olvidé de poner la expresión más usada: Mantener el honor... Y creo que hay otras por el estilo, pero no me acuerdo ahora. > > Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it > > > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The Highlander speaks both Gaelic and Scots, a rarity as far as I have > heard. One can draw one's own conclusion from this circumstance. I have. Up until relatively recently Scotland had two reasonably distinct language areas. Gaelic was dominant in the Highlands and Hebrides, whilst Scots was dominant in the rest of Scotland. There had been a time when Gaelic had been spoken widely in many other areas too. Both languages started to seriously lose ground at the end of the 19thC. Basically just about everyone who speaks Gaelic also speaks Scottish Standard English. There is a continuum between Scottish Standard English and Scots hence most Gaelic speakers will be able to understand much of what Scots speakers say. Quite a proportion of Gaelic speakers now live, and were brought up, in traditional Scots speaking areas, hence I imagine that quite a few speak both languages to some extent. It may be rarer to be fluent in Gaelic and also be a broad speaker of one of the more traditional Scots dialects. However Highlander has family from opposite ends of Scotland. He was born in Galashiels and raised in the Hebrides. It would be quite natural for him, if he was encouraged, to pick up both Gaelic and Border Scots as well as Scottish Standard English. By the way what conclusions would you draw? And why would you draw them? Allan > > > Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it > > > > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > By the way what conclusions would you draw? And why would you draw them? Based on Highlander's general comportment in the newsgroups, inviting Oscar to a street fight, etc., I would anticipate that any claim he made, was false. In particular, the Scots text and the Gaelic signature no doubt were authored by someone else. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it >> > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >The Highlander speaks both Gaelic and Scots, a rarity as far as I have >heard. One can draw one's own conclusion from this circumstance. I have. I have a gift for languages. I was certified as an interpreter for 12 languages in the Army and paid an additional wage for each one. I could have been certified for more, but was ordered not to apply, as the only person making more money than me at that point was the Brigadier. I requested a two-year posting to university in Hong Kong to learn how to write Chinese properly, but resigned my commission when they decided instead to send me to Gibraltar to note down the identification numbers and classes of Soviet warships passing by. I was also told that under no circumstances could I cross over to North Africa in view of my previous activities there, and as far as Spain was concerned, who needed the hassle from the ever rude and unpleasant Guardia Civil at La Linea just to waste time in dumps like Málaga or Algeciras. If you ever go to Gibraltar via La Linea, watch out for hordes of Spanish touts trying to sell you a ticket to get into Gibraltar - it's free! If you were to give the world an enema, Gibraltar is - apart from the actual Spanish mainland of course - where you would stick it in. Did you all go to waiter school together - is that how you met? <snjpped illiterate speculation> The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it > > as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > nationalisme is the current collective hysteria in the area. More or less > like the Gaelic spoken by the so-called Highlander in this ng. The Highlander speaks both Gaelic and Scots, a rarity as far as I have heard. One can draw one's own conclusion from this circumstance. I have. > There is the famous anecdote of a large gathering of Basque nationalists > with lots of speeches being delivered to the crowd. An anouncement was > made and at the end everybody started to aplaud and cheer. > It turn out that the announcement was about a missing child wearing a "Turns out" or "turned out". > red sweater lost in the crowd. His mother was standing at the door > waiting for anyone finding the child to bring him there. LOL. > In Vitoria and practically the entire province of Alava no Basque was > spoken for centuries. My nephews have lived in San Sebastian for > most of their lives and despite his father bein 100 % pure Basque and > all the "inmersion" programs at the the schools "Immersion" Many Spanish words that begin with "inm-" in Spanish begin with "imm-" in the true mother tongue of the Scots. "Being", "bein" is dialect, and low social class dialect at that. Tsk. > they can hardly say two dozens sentences in this language Thank you. I suspected as much, but they are trying, and the Basque Autonomous Region keeps throwing money at this issue. Money is marvelous, amazing stuff, isn't it? ¿Tienes familia que habla vascuence, maqueto? "two dozen" > In summary, bullshit of bullshits and nothig but bullshit. Ethnic > nationalism can destroy a country. Don't open the Pandora's box. I am going to take you seriously, something I never ever thought I would do. What does one do, in a country founded upon principles of ethnic nationalism (England, Spain, USA, France), to restore or preserve one's own proper culture? Methods of ethnic nationalism is how they all got to speak English, Spanish or French in the first place. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Basque remains a minority language, with officially 31% claiming it >> as their mother tongue in the Basque Country, but another 27% have ability [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >is the current collective hysteria in the area. More or less like the >Gaelic spoken by the so-called Highlander in this ng. It would be pleasant to see you behave like the scholar you claim to be instead of the offensive, bullying troublemaker you come across as. Scots are a well-educated people and I am no exception. There's nothing wrong with my Gaelic and indeed I also post to a Gaelic language group where people thank me from time to for posting wordlists not easily found in dictionaries and for explaining localisms and idioms. I realise that being rude is considered the epitome of wit among the campesino class of Spain, but it doesn't play well here, where genuine wit is commonplace and education is prized. This probably goes a long way to explaining why so many here, especially the women, are at the top of their professions, while your "university degree" appears to have outfitted you for the world's challenges by giving you an education which apparently been invaluable in assisting your meteoric rise to the top of your glittering career as a waiter. I would suggest that you move off to soc.culture.american, where people shout at each other all day and you can have a wonderful time showing off your unique gifts in the fields of abuse, foul language and sexual boasting. Should you do, I have little doubt that we will manage to soldier on by ourselves, even though deprived of your invaluable contribution to the waste of time and bandwidth. And by the way, your Gaelic really stinks. >There is the famous anecdote of a large gathering of Basque nationalists >with lots of speeches being delivered to the crowd. An anouncement was made [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > DON NICANOR TOCANDO EL TAMBOR The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> > In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official >> > recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >don't possess authority to speak of it, and they don't have nearly the >political independence that the Basques have. They do now. Google on "Estatut" (and get back to us when you've fiugured it all out). >Gain control of the >educational system, at all levels, Most of the larger Spanish regions have control of the pre-school, primary and secondary educational systems. >make fluency in your language a >prerequisite to civil service That did happen in the '80s and '90s but has since been shown to be anti-constitutional. >and employment in the police force, and get >everything translated into your local language, whether people are actually >reading it or not. Make all the street and place name signs bilingual, and >turn a blind eye when someone paints over the Spanish versions. That happens everywhere. In the Leon area at least half the signs saying "Castilla y León" must have had the "Castilla y" blanked out (there's ill-feeling because their province is not -- like Murcia, La Rioja, Cantabria or Asturias -- an autonomous region but governed from far-away Valladolid), but that's just an example of pique, not true political power, surely. >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >to, in the Basque Country. And they don't want anyone for Lehendakari >(President) who is not a fluent speaker. Oddly, though, I can't remember ever having heard the current holder of that office, Ibarretze, speaking Basque -- or, now I come to think about it, any other leading PNV figures (can anyone remember Arzalluz speaking Basque, for instance? I can't.) I'm sure they do, when the occasion demands, but they certainly don't seem to make as much of a point of it as their Catalan or even Galician counterparts, who seem to avoid Castilian at every opportunity. For example, any press conference at which local media are present will be conducted in Catalan or Galician; it's only when they're being interviewed one-on-one by national TV or radio that they speak Castilian. Yet the same is not true of the PNV, oddly. SignatureRoss Howard >> In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official >> recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Matthew Huntbach Thank you Mr. Huntbach for your lucid explanation. We have had some difficulty hammering these points into the skulls of our "guests". The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official >> recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >and dialects spoken there, and the issue of what is a dialect and what >is a separate language is controversial. Not really any more. Basque, Catalan and Galician all have full language status not just politically but also in terms of general social acceptance. (I've never heard even anti-nationalist right-wing Spaniards seriously claim that Catalan is "just a dialect of French", for example, or even that Galician is "just a dialect of Portuguese" (which it arguably is). >Catalan is accepted as a >separate language, but was long suppressed, and it seems Valencian is >now being seen as separate from Catalan. "Being seen" by some people within the Valencia region, perhaps, but by hardly anyone else. SignatureRoss Howard >>> In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official >>> recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college >>> degree and even a doctorate, taking courses taught only in Basque. In >>> fact, I heard some Spanish students grumbling about the unavailability >>> of certain essential courses in Spanish. Now that sort of parity is >>> something you Scots speakers could shoot for. >> Not a good analogy, because Basque is indisputably a separate language, >> no-one could say it's just a dialect of Spanish. On the other hand, >> Spain does well illustrate the issue, since there are various languages >> and dialects spoken there, and the issue of what is a dialect and what >> is a separate language is controversial. > Not really any more. Basque, Catalan and Galician all have full > language status not just politically but also in terms of general > social acceptance. (I've never heard even anti-nationalist right-wing > Spaniards seriously claim that Catalan is "just a dialect of French", > for example, or even that Galician is "just a dialect of Portuguese" > (which it arguably is). Well, there we are, doesn't that prove the point? If the political boundaries were different, Galician might be seen as just the northern dialect of Portuguese, but as it is spoken in Spain, it tends to get seen as a separate language. In a similar way, Dutch might have been seen as just an extreme form of Low German if the Netherlands hadn't been politically indepedent from Germany. >> Catalan is accepted as a >> separate language, but was long suppressed, and it seems Valencian is >> now being seen as separate from Catalan. > "Being seen" by some people within the Valencia region, perhaps, but > by hardly anyone else. Well, doesn't that prove the point again? Some people see it as a dialect, some see it as a separate language. Just as some people in Scotland see Scots as a spearate language, and are ngry that people elsewhere think of its as just a dialect of English. The whole point I'm making is that IT DOESN'T MATTER - THERE ISN'T A CLEAR DIFFERENCE. When languages have developed by spreading out and acquiring regional differences, then they will gradually shade from one to another. There won't necessarily be a clear dividing line, which is why arguments over whether some particular form is a dialect or a separate language are just silly. A language can be carved from a dialect by establishing a separate written standard, and insisting on a vocabulary which makes most use of those words exclusive to the dialect. This has been done many times in Europe. Had Scotland always remained completely independent from England, it is possible that a complete separate Scots language would have fully developed in the way Dutch did. As it did not, however, attempts to invent "Scots" are to some extent artificial. If people wish to do it, ok, but what actually is the point? Are Scots really going to stop reading standard English newspapers and watching standard English television and films in favour of using material in Scots? Is a whole industry of translators between English and Scots going to grow up because of an insistence that official material from local government etc be produced in the two languages? As I said, the issue is different with Bsque, because it isn't just a development caused by geographical divide, it's a language of a completely separate family. In the same way, no-one could dispute that Gaelic is a separate language, though one could certainly argue that distinction between Irish and Gaelic is somewhat artificial, and there would once have been a fairly smooth transition from one to the other. Matthew Huntbach > >>> In the Basque country, where I spent six months, they have official > >>> recognition of Basque as a language, and the ability to get a college [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The whole point I'm making is that IT DOESN'T MATTER - THERE ISN'T A > CLEAR DIFFERENCE. You are absolutely correct in a linguistic sense. However on a day to day level and under law there is a difference. Scots and Gaelic (which as you mentioned could in theory simply be regarded as a dialect of Irish) because they are both officially regarded as languages in their own right, are now given certain levels of protection under the European Charter. For instance Scots now has a place within the educational system where just a few decades ago it was excluded depending on the whims of individual schools. > Had Scotland always remained completely independent from England, it is > possible that a complete separate Scots language would have fully developed > in the way Dutch did. As it did not, however, attempts to invent "Scots" > are to some extent artificial. If people wish to do it, ok, but what > actually is the point? It depends what you mean by invent? The Scots dialects, despite what some people claim, are living breathing and changing modes of speech. They don't need to be invented. There is discussion and has been for about a century as to how Scots should be put in print. There is no standard literary form but there are general rules and recommendations which can be used if the writer wishes. Of course all standard written forms of any language are artificial to an extent but the said recommendations mostly follow general convention. You do sometimes get literary work which use, for effect, the odd new term or archaic terms but you don't really hear natural speakers of Scots speaking like that. >Are Scots really going to stop reading standard > English newspapers and watching standard English television and films in > favour of using material in Scots? Is a whole industry of translators > between English and Scots going to grow up because of an insistence > that official material from local government etc be produced in the > two languages? There are no such measures concerning Scots. All that has happened is that people, especially kids, are not now persecuted or ridiculed by the educational establishment for speaking in their native dialect, and Scots in general has been given some small place within the education system. Allan >... >> This is a very political subject in Scotland and we have been [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> >That's "¡Buena suerte!" Splendid swerve to avoid my request! So obviously Scots is not an English dialect after all. Thanks for confirming it. >Saludos, > >Earle The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. ... > >> Bueno suerte! > >> > >That's "¡Buena suerte!" > > Splendid swerve to avoid my request! So obviously Scots is > not an English dialect after all. Thanks for confirming it. Why did it take four days to answer, and what is your definition of dialect? That fact that you are able to produce an unintelligible sequence of Roman characters, is not in itself an indication that Scots is a distinct language, or that you speak it. You probably are unable to understand certain varieties of Texan, but no one is claiming language status for that. Do you have, for an example, a newspaper in the language? Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > ... >> >> Bueno suerte! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > that. > Do you have, for an example, a newspaper in the language? Not a newspaper, but here's a column within a newspaper. http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/ If you go to the Robbie Shepherd link at the bottom of the page you will get a podcast of his weekly column. Neb > > ... > >> >> Bueno suerte! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > If you go to the Robbie Shepherd link at the bottom of the page > you will get a podcast of his weekly column. Well it certainly is a pretty dialect, or language, or whatever you want to call it. I managed to get quite a bit of what he was talking about. I would maintain that the decision to make it a language is essentially a political one. I wish you luck with it. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > ... > > >> Bueno suerte! [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > certain varieties of Texan, but no one is claiming language status for that. > Do you have, for an example, a newspaper in the language? Scots has been pretty much excluded within Scotland from about the 1820s until the last couple of decades. There is no newspaper in the language though there are publications like the Lallans magazine. It has a large literary canon, which no dialect of British English can come close to matching apart from Standard English itself, though it has mostly in recent centuries been in poetry form rather than prose. Saying that there are major publications in prose like Lorimer's New Testament! The Scottish National Dictionary and the Dictionary of the Older Scottish Tongue were 70 years in the making. It was also the language of the Scottish Court and parliament before the Union. You can study the language at university level. The Scottish Executive; the Wesminster governemnt and the EU all recognise Scots and Gaelic as languages and both are protected, to different degrees, under the European Charter for Minority and Lesser Used Languages. One guy posting about something he knows nothing about hardly matters in the scheme of things! Allan >>>>>> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>>>>> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >It's not dialect; it's Scots! You say "potato"... > >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like > "gotten". I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even > listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. I've watched the Dukes of Hazzard so I know how you speak. SignatureRay UK >>> >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even >> listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. y'all >I've watched the Dukes of Hazzard so I know how you^H^H^H speak. Tsk! :-) >>> >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >I've watched the Dukes of Hazzard so I know how you speak. If you want to add to your knowledge of how Americans speak, there's no better source than Andy Griffith's "What It Was Was Football". http://humor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.collectmad.com/mad coversite/missing%5Fwas.html SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >>> >> > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I've watched the Dukes of Hazzard so I know how you speak. And eat. Yuk. "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@NOSPAMexcite.com> wrote in > I've watched the Dukes of Hazzard so I know how you speak. You should watch "Lolita does Texas" so you know how they ___k. 8-) =.=.=.=== Begomona =.=.=.= "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote in message news:4544a7c9$0$12077 >> >But American English is more common, period. Over here, if you said >> >that >> >you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your >> >straw hat. It's quite archaic. >> Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like >> "gotten". > I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even > listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. And I don't know how cultured people, like you guys, seem to have a problem with things as easy as Learnt Learned, Got and Gotten. Don't you use all of them in your daily conversations? He learned his lesson (D sound), he learned to go (drop the t sound), he has learnT enough, a learned man (lurNID), I should've gotten out, and so on. Somethin' ere I don't get, Earle? Can you learn me sumpin', pal? Oscar > "Earle Horton" <elangloburgues@usa.com> wrote in message > news:4544a7c9$0$12077 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > problem with things as easy as Learnt Learned, Got and Gotten. Don't you > use all of them in your daily conversations? He learned his lesson (D sound), > he learned to go (drop the t sound), he has learnT enough, a learned man > (lurNID), I should've gotten out, and so on. > > Somethin' ere I don't get, Earle? > Can you learn me sumpin', pal? > Oscar Oscar, We're as bad as Spanish. "This fellow doesn't pronounce his "s"s, that one they sound like "sh", those Latinos, they don't know the difference between "cazar" and "casar", etc." You are quite right, and you have learnt me something. But I was still getting over what they had learnt me in Spain, where scholarly treatises on phonology contain the word "barbarismo" on practically every page, and the national sport is making fun of others' accents, all in good fun of course. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even > listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. EastEnders features people with a South London accent, quite similar to Cockney. The BBC newsreaders speak in what is called a "BBC voice", which is not the way the "gentry" speaks. Nowadays, more and more BBC newsreaders have regional accents. >> I have viewed "Eastenders". I do know how you folk speak. I have even >> listened to BBC News, and I know how the "gentry" speak too. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is not the way the "gentry" speaks. Nowadays, more and more BBC > newsreaders have regional accents. Quite so - the country's going to the dogs. > >> > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Then you will understand how we feel when we hear things like > "gotten". The word "gotten" is a British word too. It's just not used that much in England. Allan > But American English is more common, period. Over here, if you said that > you had "learnt" something, we would be looking for the hayseed in your > straw hat. It's quite archaic. ITYM "More correct" (preterite). Oh, and a period is something girls have once a month. Full stop. :-) SignaturePaul. > | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The Sub Editor of The Argus of Brighton, England is definitely slipping. La cosa tiene mucha más que ver con el lugar donde se habla que con cualquier otra cosa. Los gringos escriben "learned" y los limeyes "learnt" Hay bastantes verbos en inglés que tienen dos formas del participio, a saber: burned/burnt learned/learnt smelled/smelt spelled/spelt spilled/spilt spoiled/spoilt Usually, when forming the past tense of a verb, the -ed form is used, while the -t form is used mainly for adjectives, but not always. The the ed form of the past tense is the regular form - I learned to drive a truck - I learned to cook - and very many past tenses end in this "ed". There is a tendency for verbs to become more regular as time goes on. This is a feature of language change. Originally, in Limey English, everyone would have spelt the past tense of learn with T - I learnt to drive, I learnt to cook, but you'll find more and more people in the Iuquey (UK) now using the ed ending. The same is true of verbs such as spell - as in I spelt it incorrectly - with a T at the end. But now you'll find more and more people using - I spelled it incorrectly - with an ed at the end. This is probably due to the influence of Murrikan English coming into Britain because in the Yunaites the form ed is used for learn, for spell, for dream for example - I dreamed it with an ed at the end. And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire English-speaking world. ese forms are correct. However, the important thing for you to do is to choose which one you would like to use, and to use that one consistently. So try to avoid mixing the ed and the t endings. Try to use just the one, but it's up to you to decide which one you want to use. I use the form ed because I believe that is more correct. Correctness comes from power and now Gringos are the ones who cortan el bacalao en este perro mundo and Limeyes are a bunch of has-beens Sometimes Archaic Limey English uses the exception with a different meaning (scholar os something like that), but this is pronounced differently) - "a learned man". In any case I don't f.cking care, because I believe it is my patriotic duty as a Hispanic to speak English as bad as possible. Saludos LA BESTIA IBERICA >>| The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > you'll find more and more people in the Iuquey (UK) now using the ed > ending. Nope, learnt is the more common spelling in the UK. Learned is more common in the US. ... > However, the important thing for you to do is to choose which > one you would like to use, and to use that one consistently. So [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > who cortan el bacalao en este perro mundo and Limeyes are a > bunch of has-beens You're talking sense. What have you done with the real Gurriato? (Y no te olvides de quien corta el bacalao.) Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote > ... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> > You're talking sense. Nonsense. I use them both and decide at the moment which one I prefer. Consistency is required only in single units of discourse written for publication. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." >> | The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". >> [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] >In any case I don't f.cking care, because I believe it is my patriotic duty >as a Hispanic to speak English as bad as possible. You're doing a wonderful job. I had never realized until now how puerile Spanish people could be, and I certainly never expected to see some unemployed plate shuffler from Iberia instruct native English speakers on the correct use of their own language. It seems that ego, arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in Extramadura. Next he'll be instructing the Irish on the care and keeping of donkeys. He certainly seems well-qualified! Gibraltar - a daily reminder of British superiority and the ineffectual whinings of Europe's last mediaeval state. >Saludos > > LA BESTIA IBERICA The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is >>starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire >>English-speaking world. Jolly good show too - vive la difference and all that. It will further distance us from our embarrassing ex-colonial oiks. > I had never realized until now how puerile Spanish people could be, > and I certainly never expected to see some unemployed plate shuffler > from Iberia instruct native English speakers on the correct use of > their own language. Doesn't surprise me - any dago race that freely admits to shagging our package-tour plane loads of reject fat slags - and for no reward other than a dose of chlamydia - is surely capable of anything. >>>And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is >>>starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > package-tour plane loads of reject fat slags - and for no reward other > than a dose of chlamydia - is surely capable of anything. To Madrid came a girl from Australia Who had rather inflamed genitalia In my encyclopedia, I look up "chlamydia" and I told her: Sorry but I can't nail ya' GURRIATEMBERG >>>>And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is >>>>starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > To Madrid came a girl from Australia Eckshully I was referring to the plane loads of slags from Newcastle and Manchester and other sink holes in England who head down to the Costa Tenner on the Med 'cos no English male will touch them. Bit confusing for you I know - I'm in Australia at the moment but I'm not an Aussie. >>>>>And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is >>>>>starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Bit confusing for you I know - I'm in Australia at the moment but I'm not an > Aussie. West Country lad, I should think? > West Country lad, I should think? An observant bright lad of the West Said "I've found out by personal test That men who made passes At girls who wear glasses They have gotten more twat than the rest" Please observe the skillful use of the idiom "gotten" in the poem, meaning "obtained". LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >> West Country lad, I should think? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > At girls who wear glasses > They have gotten more twat than the rest" That's quite good for a dago. Not good, but quite good. I'm not a West Country lad either but I do sneer at the scum who live north of the M4. I'm not sure I'm really from anywhere anymore. I left *ngland as a teenager in the early 70's and apart from a few spells living in London I never went back. I've got New Zealand citizenship too but I'll be living in Oz for a few years then who knows - Barcelona maybe. I hear it's so much more civilised since the British bought the place up and renovated it. >> An observant bright lad of the West >> Said "I've found out by personal test [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > living in London I never went back. > I've got New Zealand citizenship too but I'll be living in Oz for a few. What do you think of this one? The incredible Wizard of Oz retired from his business becoz his shrinking genitalia. Down under in Australia, he wasn't the Wizard he woz. > years then who knows - Barcelona maybe. > I hear it's so much more civilised since the British bought the place up > and renovated it. I'ts "civilized". And "dago" should be capitalized. Estoy hasta los cojones de tener que andar corrigiendo a estos guiris ignaros que no tienen NPI de su propia lengua. ¡Horda de salvajes! LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >>> An observant bright lad of the West >>> Said "I've found out by personal test [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> I hear it's so much more civilised since the British bought the place up >> and renovated it. You've got too many syllables on a couple of the lines. How about: > The incredible Wizard of Oz > retired from business becoz > Down in Australia, > with shrunk genitalia. > he wasn't the Wizard he woz. > I'ts "civilized". No it isn't - thats just more Yank deviation from the true path. >And "dago" should be capitalized. Ooops - sorry about that - no offence intended. And it's "capitalised" By the way - what is it with you greasy Dago dish-washer types and your 'cojonnes'? You never leave off talking about them. It's really gross you know. > > West Country lad, I should think? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Please observe the skillful use of the idiom "gotten" in the poem, > meaning "obtained". Whereas "got" would mean that I have a whole harem of them? Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > West Country lad, I should think? >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Saludos, What's this obsession with salads about? Other than the fact that you keep misspelling it? Are you a lettuce grower? >Earle The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > >> > West Country lad, I should think? > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > What's this obsession with salads about? Other than the fact that you > keep misspelling it? Are you a lettuce grower? I am a lettuce eater. I will probably live twice as long as you, haggis-eating knave. What bethink you of Gurriato's definition of "got" versus "gotten"? I find no scholarly reference for it, and I must assume that he made it all up. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > > West Country lad, I should think? > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Earle * There was a young prelate named Keith, Who circumcised boys with his teeth, 'Twas not for the fees He circumcised these, But to get at the cheese, underneath! earle * >> West Country lad, I should think? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE Stop that immediately - you will force me to laugh against my will. University of Salamanca eh? What did you "read" - apart from pornography, of course? Goat herding and milking, and...? The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>> West Country lad, I should think? >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Goat herding and milking, and...? Probably something to do with pigs or cojonnes - when I was in Salamanca that's all they ever talked about. The Highlander <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in > University of Salamanca eh? It's true. Seriously! Goooooogle Groups http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=Gurriato+Universidad+Salaman ca&qt_s=Search =.=.=.=.= Begoluna =.=.=.= >>> West Country lad, I should think? >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > University of Salamanca eh? This "eh?" sounded VERY Canadian > What did you "read" - apart from pornography, of course? > > Goat herding and milking, and...? Gaelic. I studied Medicine at the University of Salamanca, one of the best in Spain. I also took two years of Psychology at the Universidad Pontificia de Salamanca, a private Catholic school. Salamanca is considered to be one of the most spectacular Renaissance cities in Europe. Salamanca was synonymous with learning. There was a old sarcastic latin remark about idiots like you trying very hard to learn: Quod natura non dat, Salmantica non prestat. It means that if you did not get in from nature you cannot borrow it from Salamanca. I lived for long time at the Royal College for the Irish Noblemen (El Real Colegio de Nobles Irlandeses) who is very close to the School of Medicine. Perhaps you don't know that Gaelic was spoken at Salamanca for tree centuries by hundreds of Irish students who were forced to leave Ireland because of the Penal Laws against Catholics at the end of the 16th century and the beginning of the 17th. Some of them were seminarians who came to Spain to became priests. Five colleges were set in Spain for this purpose. The most famous of the Irish colleges in Spain was that of Salamanca founded in 1592 by a decree of King Philip III and opened in 1593 with the title: El Real Colegio de Nobles Irlandeses. The support of the students was provided for by a royal endowment. The running of the college was entrusted to the Jesuits, with an Irish father holding the office of vice-rector. The Jesuits continued to govern the college until the order was expelled from Spain in 1767. Have a look at the College building, its patio is gorgeous. You can probably find it in many Internet pages. My room was is the high floor. The college was made with the famous yellow arenisca stone of Salamanca. Through the centuries the sandstone buildings have gained an exquisite golden glow that has given Salamanca the nickname La Ciudad Dorada, the golden city. Saludos LA BESTIA IBERICA >Perhaps you don't know that Gaelic was spoken at Salamanca for tree >centuries by hundreds of Irish students who were forced to leave Ireland >because of the Penal Laws against Catholics at the end of the 16th century >and the beginning of the 17th. Interesting error, there. It would be common for an Irishman to sound like he's saying "for tree centuries". > The running of the college was entrusted >to the Jesuits, with an Irish father holding the office of vice-rector. The only way to make this sentence unambiguous is to capitalize "Father". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > I studied Medicine at the University of Salamanca, one of the best in > Spain. I also took two years of Psychology at the Universidad Pontificia > de Salamanca, a private Catholic school. Salamanca is considered to be one > of the most spectacular Renaissance cities in Europe. > > Have a look at the College building, its patio is gorgeous. You can > probably find it in many Internet pages. My room was is the high floor. > The college was made with the famous yellow arenisca stone of Salamanca. > Through the centuries the sandstone buildings have gained an exquisite > golden glow that has given Salamanca the nickname La Ciudad Dorada, the > golden city. I would agree with that. Amazing little town - completely wasted on the Dagos of course - they *still* use the place as a kind of giant school when it would make a great casino town. A few illuminations and some big tasteful hotels - it could have been a new Las Vegas. But never mind - the quality of the architecture still shines through despite remaining almost untouched by modern improvements. > I would agree with that. > Amazing little town - completely wasted on the Dagos of course - they > *still* use the place as a kind of giant school when it would make a great > casino town. > A few illuminations and some big tasteful hotels - it could have been a > new Las Vegas. The best illuminations in the past came from the burning of Prostitutes, I mean, Protestants, in autos de fe at the Plaza Mayor de Salamanca, the most beautiful plaza in the whole World. The best light came from the roasting of Anglicans at stake. Being from a country of drunkards, the high alcohol content in their bodies made the bonfire last a long, long time. I think we should start roasting again these obnoxious hooligans. THAT would be a new Las Vegas. I bet we'd get tourists from all over the World to see the show FRAY GERUNDIO DE CAMPAZAS ------------------------------------- Si los cuernos alumbraran como alumbran los faroles estarían los ingleses llenos de iluminaciones. ------------------------------------- > > I would agree with that. > > Amazing little town - completely wasted on the Dagos of course - they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > country of drunkards, the high alcohol content in their bodies made the > bonfire last a long, long time. "Spain has more bars than the rest of Europe put together." They teach that in the "culture" part of "clases de lengua y cultura española para extranjeros". I would like to introduce Gurriato, or as we call him in the Spanish newsgroups, "El Cob Knobbler", to the English speaking newsgroups. The Knobbler's knowledge of Spanish language and culture is only exceeded by his self-imagined knowledge of and superiority to English culture. But you can always catch him up. One time, he claimed to have studied "in Oxford". He back pedaled in a hurry when I exposed that solecism. It turned out he had stayed a fortnight at Miss Poniatowska's finishing academy for young ladies of the Bulgarian persuasion, located "in Oxford", or somewhere close by. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in message > > "Spain has more bars than the rest of Europe put together." They teach [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > close > by. You f.cking liar! You 1/16th Cherockee Maiblütenarsch! What I said was that I learnt English "IN Oxford" (which is true) and you tried to correct me by saying that I should have written "AT Oxford". I answered back stating that I was never registered at any school in Oxford. You wrongly took for granted that I meant I was a student at the University, which I never was. I did a summer internship at a Psychiatric Hospital in Littlemore (i. e. I was an intern there, not a patient). I spent the entire intership drinking pint after pint in the Hospital's pub with the nurses. It was very educational. They were crazier than their patients. Don't make me search all these old posts, you pretentious preppy Gringo c.nt! GURRIATEMBERG <<Self-serving Spanish rant deleted>> > Don't make me search all these old posts, you pretentious preppy > Gringo c.nt! Oh what a tangled web we weave, when once we practice to deceive. Saludos, Earle SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> > I would agree with that. >> > Amazing little town - completely wasted on the Dagos of course - they [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > close > by. I don't care - and to a truly spectacular degree I might add. He's always impeccably polite to me and has never done me a bad turn. If he does I personally will hunt him down and slit his and all his families throats, but until then I'll continue to take him at face value thanks. >> I would agree with that. >> Amazing little town - completely wasted on the Dagos of course - they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > would be a new Las Vegas. I bet we'd get tourists from all over the World > to see the show Sounds great. I love bonfires and fireworks. I was in Barcelona for the millenium new year party - that was a show. But why stop at Protestants - the Romans (they of 'Roman Candle' fame) used to light up the sky with Christians of all denominations. Or maybe there *was* only one denomination back then? Whatever. I love the concept. Burn them all. Add a billion or so Muslims and the rest of us might even get a bit of peace at last. > FRAY GERUNDIO DE CAMPAZAS > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > llenos de iluminaciones. > ------------------------------------- > Eckshully I was referring to the plane loads of slags from Newcastle and > Manchester and other sink holes in England who head down to the Costa > Tenner on the Med 'cos no English male will touch them. Who cares! All Guiri slags are the same. There once was a slag Aussy from Sydney Who could take it right up to the kidney Then a Spic from Seville Put it up to her gill ...He had a big one, now, didn't he? LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >> Eckshully I was referring to the plane loads of slags from Newcastle and >> Manchester and other sink holes in England who head down to the Costa [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE It's definitely getting worse. What do you say, Dr. Whyte-Settlar? A case of NFI? * * (NFI - medical code for "No f*cking idea...") The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>> Eckshully I was referring to the plane loads of slags from Newcastle and >>> Manchester and other sink holes in England who head down to the Costa [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It's definitely getting worse. What do you say, Dr. Whyte-Settlar? A > case of NFI? * I think 'Whopper' might have rolled off the tongue a little more rythmicaly, so to speak, but then I'm no greasy Spic. >>>>And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is >>>>starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > GURRIATEMBERG 7/10. The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. The Highlander <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in > 7/10. Oh, you guys count the syllables? I cheat! 8-) =.=.=.=.= Begoluna =.=.=.=. > I had never realized until now how puerile Spanish people could be, > and I certainly never expected to see some unemployed plate shuffler [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> LA BESTIA IBERICA I am a compasionate Extremadurian who seeks to inspire and educate. Every Canadian pikey should learn from us wise learned scholars. and then there are the other guys. Consider this clearly bogus Mayflowerian's ( 1/16 th Cherokee) posts... Despite the fact that you Highlander neds evolved from more primitive ape-like beings or and are a bunch of evil rednecks does not mean you have to go believing everything a preppy c.nt tells you. My compasionate teachings are targeted toward white trash people like you, with low social status and poor prospects, to prevent further downward mobility due to your being bankrupt of all cultural endowment. I want to improve your crude manners, your abnormally low moral standards, your lack of culture, your swearing, promiscuity, drunkenness, overly loud behavior in public, and your gambling (especially your copious purchase of scratch-style lottery tickets). Perhaps you'll be able to move out of your decrepit trailer lacking indoor plumbing, and clean your yard strewn with debris and this ugly non-functioning vehicle. However, my endeavours are probably a waste of time. You are pure white trash, an ignorant chav from the Tundra. Who can reason with you? Your intellectual level is like the level of a monkey. (sorry, monkeys). I know your sexual preferences, particularly the necrophiliac ones, but at least you do not f.ck your sister like most yokels do. Your heart is still burning for that pretty blonde you fell in love with. The story was so moving that I wrote you a little poem, just to soothe your sorrows: You'd fallen in love, wunt very long ago When she walked in your life like a hot seasoned doe... The smile of her tooth, it couldn't get any bigger Her purdiness burned in your heart like an itch from a chigger She was saltier than grits and better than pigs feet Spicier than ham hocks and tastier than deer meat She was all you had wanted but at last- she could not be your lover For dressed all in drag, she was really your brother!!! Saludos LA BESTIA IBERICA > promiscuity, I say - steady on. We don't need an improvement on that score. > drunkenness, overly loud behavior in public, and your gambling > (especially your copious purchase of scratch-style lottery tickets). > Perhaps you'll be able to move out of your decrepit trailer lacking > indoor plumbing, and clean your yard strewn with debris and this ugly > non-functioning vehicle. What you are describing is indeed a fair description of a certain segment of British society commonly known as 'scum' or 'anyone who isn't upper class'. We, the ruling elite, have been trying to eradicate them ever since they priced themselves out of the servitude market price of 10/6p per week. I wish you every success in your admirable endeavour. >> promiscuity, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > priced themselves out of the servitude market price of 10/6p per week. > I wish you every success in your admirable endeavour. On the other hand the real world is full of events of which we Spaniards disapprove and find distasteful. Guiri scum creates lots of problems when they visit the Iberian Peninsula for their drunken sprees. British hooligans are violent and dangerous. In the British Isles there are plentiful joints where alcohol and women (sometimes - often - girls in their early teens) are available for sale, and heavily intoxicated Guiris try to molest the locals when they do not find in Spain the expected assortment of chlamydia infected whores so easily available in their native land. See what happened when our beloved happy trailer paid us a visit: A deranged Highlander in Gibraltar. once raped a Spanish nun on the altar. "Now look what you've done!" Exclaimed the nun. "You've gummed up the leaves of the psalter!" LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >>> promiscuity, >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > they visit the Iberian Peninsula for their drunken sprees. British > hooligans are violent and dangerous. These disgusting creatures are English scum not 'British' scum - 'British' includes Scots and Taffies and their scum are generally much better behaved than English scum. So please be more accurate with your terminology. > In the British Isles there are plentiful joints where alcohol and women > (sometimes - often - girls in their early teens) are available for sale, So you've met them eh? How much did you have to pay? > and heavily intoxicated Guiris try to molest the locals when they do not > find in Spain the expected assortment of chlamydia infected whores so > easily available in their native land. That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. It's because the Spanish - both male and female - have a world-wide reputation for taking it up the **** that your country is so popular with the analy obsessed English scum. It's much cheaper than in England too. > That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - > but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. > It's because the Spanish - both male and female - have a world-wide > reputation for taking it up the **** that your country is so popular with > the analy obsessed English scum. It's much cheaper than in England too. LIMERICK DEDICATED TO ALL ANALY OBSESSED ENGLISH SCUM: There was a fat Limey in Australia Who painted his a.s like a dahlia. A penny a smell Was all very well But twopence a lick was a failure. LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >> That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - >> but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Was all very well > But twopence a lick was a failure. Cheeky upstart - If you mean me, I'm not fat. >> LIMERICK DEDICATED TO ALL ANALY OBSESSED ENGLISH SCUM: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> Was all very well >> But twopence a lick was a failure. > Cheeky upstart - If you mean me, I'm not fat. It was a typo. I meant "fag". The key for T is just on top of G's one LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE >>> LIMERICK DEDICATED TO ALL ANALY OBSESSED ENGLISH SCUM: >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > It was a typo. I meant "fag". The key for T is just on top of G's one Well if you g(G?)reasy Spics insist on posting during working hours you should use rubber washing up gloves for maximum grip. "Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in > There was a fat Limey in Australia > Who painted his a.s like a dahlia. > A penny a smell > Was all very well > But twopence a lick was a failure. There was a fat arsehole from España Who painted his arse and his genitalia. A penny a smell Was a penny from hell But twopence a lick was better than baño-papel. :-D =.=.=..=.= Begoluna =.=.=.=..= >"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Begoluna >=.=.=.=..= A small bird; the Sparrow from Spain Is becoming a pest and a pain. He escaped from his cage Filled with anger and rage. And is driving us slowly insane. Some think that The Sparrow is sick Others think he is stupid and thick But we all can agree That what 'ere he may be He behaves like an ignorant prick! Tu giro, cabra pequeña The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. The Highlander <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in >>"Gurriato" <patanegra@netnitco.net> wrote in >>> There was a fat Limey in Australia >>> Who painted his a.s like a dahlia. >>There was a fat arsehole from España >>Who painted his arse and his genitalia. > A small bird; the Sparrow from Spain > Is becoming a pest and a pain. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Tu giro, cabra pequeña I'll take Gurriato's turn! 8-) A big bird, our Caponata* friend Is becoming a pain and a pest. He scaped from the backstage Filled with anger and pain And is driving me quickly out of my traffic lane. All think that Caponata is his nick All think he is stupid and mean And we all can agree That what where he may be He behaves like an ignorant, sick, mean, prick, thick, dick! *Caponata = Sesame Street's Big Bird =.=.=.=.= Begoluna =.=.=.=.= >> That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - >> but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE Plagiarism! You stole that! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>> That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - >>> but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> > Plagiarism! You stole that! He wuz still robbed. "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <grawillers@westnet.com.au> wrote in > "The Highlander" <micheil@shaw.ca> wrote in message >> On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:45:13 -0600, "Gurriato" >>>There was a fat Limey in Australia >>>Who painted his a.s like a dahlia. >> Plagiarism! You stole that! > He wuz still robbed. Hey, he stole it from ME!! :-DDD =.=.=.=.= Begoluna =.=.=.=. >> That's because all our reject fat slags are in the Costa Tenner anyway - >> but the English scum males wouldn't touch them there either. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Was all very well >But twopence a lick was a failure. "Arse". No true Englishman would daub a dumb animal with paint, floral or otherwise. We have a *Royal* Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, but only a *National* Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, after all. Cheers - Ian (BrE - Yorks., Notts., Hants.) >> There was a fat Limey in Australia >> Who painted his a.s like a dahlia. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cruelty to Animals, but only a *National* Society for the Prevention > of Cruelty to Children, after all. Are you trying to tell me that Banksy isn't a true Englishman? SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >A deranged Highlander in Gibraltar. >once raped a Spanish nun on the altar. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > LE MARQUIS DE LA PATTE NOIRE 4/10 for metre. I'm homing in on this literary enigma - I think he's found a source and is changing the names to incriminate the innocent. He's obviously hoping to convince us that - like you and me - he's a real swinger. However, my analysis is that he'd be better employed swinging through the trees... unless he's milking goats of course! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >> promiscuity, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >priced themselves out of the servitude market price of 10/6p per week. >I wish you every success in your admirable endeavour. Don't forget to mention about Tiglath hanging around here playing Scratch 'n Sniff with his bottom... The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>> promiscuity, >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Don't forget to mention about Tiglath hanging around here playing > Scratch 'n Sniff with his bottom... Is he still here? I plonked a few christiancrazies and bores last week - I think he might have been among them as I can't see any recent posts. The Dago has a point about the Anglos in Spain though - I always avoid them like the ****ing plague when I'm over there. At least they advertise their presense so loudly you can give them the old body swerve a hundred yards out. >> I had never realized until now how puerile Spanish people could be, >> and I certainly never expected to see some unemployed plate shuffler [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >Saludos > LA BESTIA IBERICA Conway! Ah thenk he done stole one a yores! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >It seems that ego, arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in >Extramadura. Priceless! -- THE "If you or I use a word inappropriately, that's an error. If a newspaper uses a word inappropriately, that's a citation source for the dictionaries." -- Peter Moylan >>It seems that ego, arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in >>Extramadura. > > Priceless! Hardly. Astute observations are common currency in scs. You should get out more. >>>It seems that ego, arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in >>>Extramadura. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Astute observations are common currency in scs. >You should get out more. Hey! Give me a moment to wallow in my second of fame! The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. >>It seems that ego, arrogance and ignorance are alive and well in >>Extramadura. > >Priceless! Hey! A fan! Thank you, kind sir! <I'd forgotten that I'd written that...> The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. > it with an ed at the end. And you'll find that this Gringo spelling is > starting to replace the original Limey spelling thouhout the entire > English-speaking world. Do you have any evidence that the -ed forms are becoming more widely used outside North America? I find that a strange claim. > ese forms are correct. However, the important thing for you to do is to > choose which one you would like to use, and to use that one consistently. So > try to avoid mixing the ed and the t endings. Try to use just the one, but > it's up to you to decide which one you want to use. Why should we be consistent? I do occasionally use "learned, burned, etc.", although very rarely "dreamed" which has a different vowel from "dreamt". I may be odd in this, but I tend to use "learned" to mean "learnt after some considerable effort". The adjective, I spell "learnèd" or "learnéd" according to whim. SignatureRob Bannister >| The past tense of "learn" is "learnt". > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Veritas Vos Liberabit You're rather a sad wannabe. Do you really think that anyone is going to take you seriously? The Highlander Faodaidh nach ionann na beachdan anns an post seo agus beachdan a' Ghàidheil. The views expressed in this post are not necessarily those of The Highlander. Do both English folk and Scots use the words _close_, _alley_, _pend_ and _vennel_ with the same -- or different -- meanings? DSH |
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