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Discussion Groups / English Usage / October 2006The power of soap
From an article by George Lakoff: http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [DISCLAIMER: I'm not interested in the politics of the article, only this paragraph. I put the link there as a citation, not a suggestion to read the article.] "Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and behavior. A recent University of Toronto study, for example, demonstrated the power of metaphors that connect morality and purity: People who washed their hands after contemplating an unethical act were less troubled by their thoughts than those who didn't, the researchers found." Comments?  SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." > From an article by George Lakoff: > http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Comments? I'm not sure what kind of comment you're after but I agree with the first sentence that you quote. Prof Page and I have explored this in the context of our own discipline: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=483742 Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the researchers gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> From an article by George Lakoff: >> http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I'm not sure what kind of comment you're after but I agree with the > first sentence that you quote. I would have replaced the semi-colon with a colon in the quoted sentence, though. Fran >>> From an article by George Lakoff: >>> http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I would have replaced the semi-colon with a colon in the quoted > sentence, though. I would have used a dash. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > dontbother wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > I'm not sure what kind of comment you're after Nothing in particular. I'll just mention here that I wash my hands about 50 or 60 times a day > but I agree with > the first sentence that you quote. Prof Page and I have explored [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the > researchers gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? That's a good question. None of my thoughts trouble me these days. I've never felt the need to confess to anyone that I've had "bad thoughts", even when I knew that I was having what some would consider bad thoughts. It seems pretty stupid to me to admit that one is having "bad thoughts". I don't believe in thought-crimes or thought-sins. Thinking is free, but one can probably be put in jail for molesting butterflies. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." >> dontbother wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > thought-sins. Thinking is free, but one can probably be put in jail > for molesting butterflies. A major part of the fun in being an experimental psychologist is in the designing of protocols to derive useful support for such hypotheses as "hand-washing after contemplation reduces expected stress". Almost as much fun as puncturing the "yabbut" balloons inevitably launched in the wake of publication. SignatureFrank ess >> dontbother wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Nothing in particular. I'll just mention here that I wash my hands >about 50 or 60 times a day I wash my hands immediately after every strangulation. Some of my victims just do not, ah, did not practice good hygiene, and I want to feel clean. [snip] Sincerely, Gene "the Soap Strangler" Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. > Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the researchers > gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? I'd like to know more about the research methodology. Maybe a questionnaire? - Question 1 When did you last do something unethical? Question 2 Did you: a) wash your hands afterwards? b) not wash your hands afterwards? and, of course, Question 3 When did you stop beating your wife? DC >>Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the researchers >>gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > When did you last do something unethical? But if you read the quote carefully the subjects only *contemplated* doing something unethical. There are certain activities after which I would usually wash my hands: thinking is not one of them, though. > Question 2 > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > DC SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > >>Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the researchers > >>gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > But if you read the quote carefully the subjects only *contemplated* > doing something unethical. Oh, OK, right. > There are certain activities after which I would usually wash my hands: > thinking is not one of them, though. Indeed, it tends to be the less cerebral activities. What I'm not sure about is whether the subjects in Franke's source are washing their hands consciously - 'ooh, I just had a bad thought - where's the Camay?', or it's a subconscious compulsion: Question 5 When did you last wash your hands subconsciously? DC > LFS wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > When did you last wash your hands subconsciously? Maybe that ought to be "When did you last wash your subconscious hands? SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." >> Sounds like an iffy experiment to me: I wonder how the researchers >> gauged the level of "trouble" of people's thoughts? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >When did you last do something unethical? "last", eh? That means the current unethical action -- lying to you -- does not count. Let me see . . . >Question 2 > >Did you: > >a) wash your hands afterwards? Oh, eventually. >b) not wash your hands afterwards? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >When did you stop beating your wife? What wife? Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. >> From an article by George Lakoff: >> http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=483742 I can tell you're a person of repute / It's all because you belong to the 'Tute. SignatureJohn Dean Oxford >>>From an article by George Lakoff: >>>http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I can tell you're a person of repute / It's all because you belong to the > 'Tute. Ah, you've been reading today's Guardian. The story broke ages ago in the accountancy press. (I daren't look at YouTube any more: I don't emerge for hours. All human life is there.) SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > From an article by George Lakoff: > http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Comments? Did the study show if washing of hands caused people to be less troubled, or if less-troubled people were more likely to wash their hands? If the latter, then it's more a case of metaphor describing thought and behaviour, not governing them. Regards, Arfur >> From an article by George Lakoff: >> http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43642/ [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > troubled, or if less-troubled people were more likely to wash > their hands? That's all there was to that discussion. > If the latter, then it's more a case of metaphor > describing thought and behaviour, not governing them. I think you've missed the point of most of the posts in this NG, Arfur. Description governs (linguistic) behavior for most people here. SignatureFranke: EFL teacher & medical editor Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan. Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com "Impatience is the mother of misery." >.... > "Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Comments? Comments on the content would be too much to write for tonight, I'll comment on the English as a few things bother me: Metaphors are not, at least not exclusively, language; so it doesn't read right that they are more than language. Metaphors don't do the governing of thought and behavior, they are used by people. I'd write 'A recent study at ...' rather than 'A recent University...' I wonder whether 'for example' indicates that there really are more referenced studies on this topic. Shouldn't 'purity' be 'cleanliness' here? The use of ':' followed by a sentence that ends with 'the researchers found' seems odd. Perhaps omitting the colon and just having 'The reserachers found.....' would work better? Good night.... SignatureSolo Thesailor http://sailingstoriesandtips.blogspot.com >>.... >> "Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Metaphors are not, at least not exclusively, language; The word "metaphor" originally applied exclusively to language. The application of the word to non-linguistic domains is, itself, a metaphor. If I read the OED entry correctly, they attest the word to the fifteenth century, but the non-linguistic sense only to 1836. > so it doesn't read right that they are more than language. I have no trouble reading "more than language" as meaning "more than _merely_ language". > Metaphors don't do the governing of thought and behavior, they are > used by people. That would be another metaphor. Or, perhaps, not. It's been argued that much of thought is actually based on metaphor and that the common set of metaphors that a community uses does indeed guide the way they think. An interesting book on the subject is Lakoff and Johnson's _Metaphors We Live By_. > I'd write 'A recent study at ...' rather than 'A recent >University...' I have no preference between the two. > I wonder whether 'for example' indicates that there really are more > referenced studies on this topic. I wouldn't think so. The example is the demonstrated metaphorical connection between morality and purity. > Shouldn't 'purity' be 'cleanliness' here? Quite possibly. I guess it depends on whether the washing is perceived as removing an adulteration (hence "purity") or removing accumulated grime (hence "cleanliness"). SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |barbarian and thinks that the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |customs of his tribe and island are |the laws of nature. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | (650)857-7572 | George Bernard Shaw http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > "Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and > behavior. A recent University of Toronto study, for example, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Comments? As it is arguably a bad thing to be untroubled by contemplating unethical acts, the conclusion to be drawn is that people in power should not be allowed to wash their hands. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Sometimes I think the surest sign 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |that intelligent life exists Palo Alto, CA 94304 |elsewhere in the universe is that |none of it has tried to contact us. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Calvin (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > > "Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and > > behavior. A recent University of Toronto study, for example, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > unethical acts, the conclusion to be drawn is that people in power > should not be allowed to wash their hands. It's all nonsense. You can find a better description of the experiments near the end of this page: http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/news/hits/061010wp.htm Notice that what the above summary calls "were less troubled by their thoughts" actually showed up in the behavior as: were less likely to help someone in need. Being untroubled means being selfish? If we're back to metaphors, I say it's the clean priest crossing the road to avoid the wounded traveler, whom the lowly Samaritan helps instead. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > You can find a better description of the experiments > near the end of this page: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thoughts" actually showed up in the behavior as: were less likely to > help someone in need. Being untroubled means being selfish? I don't know about that, but I did like the idea of cooties as "invisible moral essence". Fran Frances Kemmish filted: >> Notice that what the above summary calls "were less troubled by their >> thoughts" actually showed up in the behavior as: were less likely to >> help someone in need. Being untroubled means being selfish? > >I don't know about that, but I did like the idea of cooties as >"invisible moral essence". How would you feel about calling them "mitichlorians"?...r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Frances Kemmish filted: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > How would you feel about calling them "mitichlorians"?...r I would have to do more research in order to form an opinion. Are (Is?) "mitichlorian" the same as "midichlorian"? I didn't watch "Star Wars" in any of its manifestations, so it's all a mystery to me. Fran Frances Kemmish filted: >> Frances Kemmish filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >"mitichlorian" the same as "midichlorian"? I didn't watch "Star Wars" in >any of its manifestations, so it's all a mystery to me. Not sure of the spelling; I haven't had a chance since the praequelae came out on DVD to watch any of them with the closed-captioning turned on.... It's always bothered me that the mystical and spiritual "Force" of the earlier-made films is revealed in the second trilogy as a manifestation of a mere microbial infestation....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >>>"Metaphors are more than language; they can govern thought and >>>behavior. A recent University of Toronto study, for example, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > road to avoid the wounded traveler, whom the lowly Samaritan helps > instead. The full citation for the paper is • Washing Away Your Sins: Threatened Morality and Physical Cleansing, By Chen-Bo Zhong and Katie Liljenquist. Science. American Association for the Advancement of Science. September 8, 2006. Vol. 313. no. 5792, pp. 1451 - 1452 - but, irritatingly, Brookes no longer subscribes to this journal so I can't access it. It seems to have attracted a fair bit of attention in the press and blogs. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) |
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