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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Arse and a.s
Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) Not as bad as an /a.s/, I guess?  SignaturePer, Esbjerg > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) In the US, it's just meaningless. We don't have such a word here. > Not as bad as an /a.s/, I guess? Here, that can mean two things: a donkey, or a buttock. More often than not, though, you'll hear people called "an a.shole". That's a little less ambiguous. -- Stefano "No matter where you go, there you are. But your luggage is in MacGregor, Saskatchewan." Steve MacGregor wrote, in <1162311865.724105.260930@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> on 31 Oct 2006 08:24:25 -0800: > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > In the US, it's just meaningless. We don't have such a word here. As I have mentioned here before, you did in H.L. Mencken's day. > > Not as bad as an /a.s/, I guess? > > Here, that can mean two things: a donkey, or a buttock. More often > than not, though, you'll hear people called "an a.shole". That's a > little less ambiguous. SignatureNick Spalding > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > In the US, it's just meaningless. We don't have such a word here. Some American sf writers, such as Robert Heinlein and Steven Brust, have used it frequently, maybe as a way of avoiding "a.s", which is more shocking in the U. S. SignatureJerry Friedman > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > In the US, it's just meaningless. We don't have such a word here. Americans understand arse but we think anyone who uses it is an a.s. > Americans understand arse but we think anyone who uses it is an a.s. Well... yeah. -- Stefano "I like barbecue, but just can't get the hang of barbecued beans. The little suckers keep falling through my grill." >> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >than not, though, you'll hear people called "an a.shole". That's a >little less ambiguous. A burro burrow? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > A burro burrow? So, to cut a long story dead, you wait till the elephant bends down to see what that grey stuff at the bottom is, and you run up and kick him in the ashhole. The CDB entity posted thusly: >>>> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >see what that grey stuff at the bottom is, and you run up and kick him >in the ashhole. We use frozen peas for bait, in a hole chipped in the ice. When the bear comes to take a pea, you kick him in the ice hole. > The CDB entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > We use frozen peas for bait, in a hole chipped in the ice. When the > bear comes to take a pea, you kick him in the ice hole. Unless it's a panda bear. They go for Southern-fried rice. > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, jacksie, chuff and many other words of varying degrees of vulgarity. It is usually pronounced the same as the American a.s (to rhyme with 'glass'). Irish people seem to be the only ones who pronounce it as written, fully pronouncing the 'r'. a.s is roughly the American equivalent. The individual components of the arse/a.s also differ either side of the Atlantic. Half an arse is a bum in the UK, a bun in the US, although in the UK a bum can often refer to the whole arse, and half an arse a cheek or bum-cheek (to distinguish from face cheek). In the US the term is buns (in the plural) but this is a polite term referring to the two fleshy,half-globes, mostly female and usually used in connection with fitness videos and TV commercials for exercise equipment. JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, > bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, jacksie, chuff and many other > words of varying degrees of vulgarity. It is usually pronounced the > same as the American a.s (to rhyme with 'glass'). It is not usually pronounced the same as "a.s". I would go so far as to say that it's never pronounced the same as "a.s". Any Brits you hear saying "a.s" are using the American word. Most UK speakers pronounce it as written, depending on their own accent - those who are rhotic introduce the rrrr sound. Comparing it with "glass" is not much use as I say the word differently from the way my children say it: "glaahs" vs "glas". SignatureDavid ===== > JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > with "glass" is not much use as I say the word differently from the > way my children say it: "glaahs" vs "glas". In my suddenly resurgent Southern Drawl 'glass' rhymes with 'arse'. In my Oldham years it rhymed with 'a.s'. DC >> JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: >>> Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, >>> bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, jacksie, chuff and many other >>> words of varying degrees of vulgarity. It is usually pronounced the >>> same as the American a.s (to rhyme with 'glass'). >> It is not usually pronounced the same as "a.s". I would go so far as >> to say that it's never pronounced the same as "a.s". Any Brits you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> with "glass" is not much use as I say the word differently from the >> way my children say it: "glaahs" vs "glas". > In my suddenly resurgent Southern Drawl 'glass' rhymes with 'arse'. In > my Oldham years it rhymed with 'a.s'. Even though I'm not rhotic, to me "arse" has a sort of residual rhoticity which means it isn't an exact rhyme with "glass". "Glass" certainly has a completely different vowel than "a.s", and the effect of the "r" in "arse" seems to be to stretch that vowel out even longer. That's what makes "arse" such a satisfying word - you can use it as an expletive and just linger on it as that vowel goes on and on. How can anyone use the silly short "a.s" in the same way? Matthew Huntbach ... } Even though I'm not rhotic, to me "arse" has a sort of residual rhoticity } which means it isn't an exact rhyme with "glass". "Glass" certainly has } a completely different vowel than "a.s", and the effect of the "r" in } "arse" seems to be to stretch that vowel out even longer. That's what } makes "arse" such a satisfying word - you can use it as an expletive and just } linger on it as that vowel goes on and on. How can anyone use the silly } short "a.s" in the same way? Around here (south and west of Mason and Dixon's line) you can take it around the block, polyphthongally, after "Kiss mah". Signaturerjv > >> JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > linger on it as that vowel goes on and on. How can anyone use the silly > short "a.s" in the same way? Do you remember Bob Fleming's tourettes friend in The Fast Show, who couldn't stop saying 'arse'? That was definitely rhotic... DC >JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >to say that it's never pronounced the same as "a.s". Any Brits you >hear saying "a.s" are using the American word. I've heard Brits say that someone is a "silly a.s", and I've sometimes said it myself. They are not using the American word, since the American word is "donkey". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes filted: >>It is not usually pronounced the same as "a.s". I would go so far as >>to say that it's never pronounced the same as "a.s". Any Brits you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >They are not using the American word, since the American word is "donkey". Different animal...the American word is "jackass".... (The production company for cable TV's "The Man Show" telescopes the qualified terms for the two sorts of AmE "a.s", calling itself "Jackhole Industries")....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Steve Hayes filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > "Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when > he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Steve Hayes filted: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Different animal...the American word is "jackass".... Same animal. "Donkey" is the American word for "a.s" (the animal, Equus asinis) and "jackass" is a male donkey. M-W says that "a.s" comes from Old English but "donkey" is quite recent, 1785; etymology unknown. But backing up a few layers, a Brit who says "a.s" the American way and uses it with the American meaning (bottom, buttocks, etc) is using the American word. Now I'm trying to track down the one Steve mentions, the general British insult "you silly a.s". I haven't a doubt it's the same sense as "you silly donkey", but (as the Omrud says) it's been around as a general insult, without any metaphorical associations, that the source is not obvious. However, the earliest use of "silly a.s" in Google Books definitely ties it to a mule: The works of ... Joseph Hall, with some account of his life and sufferings, written by himself,... - Page 418 by Joseph Hall - 1808 What was the mule, in Plutarch, after his lying down in the water, troubled with the melting of that burden of salt, which he carried? or what pains is it to the silly a.s, that the treasure, which he bore, is taken off, and laid up in his master's chests? ... And so does the next use of "silly a.s," The Google Books images are distorted, but it appears to be a poem by Drayton in an 1823 collection of British poetry, a story about a wolf and an a.s. If that's the Michael Drayton at the Biographical Reference page, he died in 1631. So that would be quite a bit earlier. Three other hits printed in the 1820s use it simply in the "stupid fellow" sense, in no other way alluding to an animal. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux On 01 Nov 2006, Donna Richoux wrote -snip- > Now I'm trying to track down the one Steve mentions, the general > British insult "you silly a.s". I haven't a doubt it's the same > sense as "you silly donkey", but (as the Omrud says) it's been > around as a general insult, without any metaphorical > associations, that the source is not obvious. -snip- > Three other hits printed in the 1820s use it simply in the > "stupid fellow" sense, in no other way alluding to an animal. FWIW, OED unequivocally relates it to the "animal" meaning: the entry for "silly a.s" is cross-referenced only to that sense of the noun. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > Now I'm trying to track down the one Steve mentions, the general British > insult "you silly a.s". I haven't a doubt it's the same sense as "you [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Three other hits printed in the 1820s use it simply in the "stupid > fellow" sense, in no other way alluding to an animal. It may not be obvious to non-Brits that "silly a.s" or more likely "sillyass" has a tinge of class meaning. It was commonly used by or about the upper classes, especially the younger male of the species. Think "upper class twits". Bertie Wooster and his mates would be likely to use the term, but their coalman or gardener would not. SignatureDavid ===== the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> had it: > It may not be obvious to non-Brits that "silly a.s" or more likely > "sillyass" has a tinge of class meaning. It was commonly used by or > about the upper classes, especially the younger male of the species. > Think "upper class twits". Bertie Wooster and his mates would be > likely to use the term, but their coalman or gardener would not. Donna, it's worth extending your research into "sillyass", which is usually used as an adjective. I see that Google Books has a couple of dozen hits. SignatureDavid ===== "the Omrud" <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote : > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> insult, without any metaphorical associations, that the source is not >> obvious. <snip refs> > It may not be obvious to non-Brits that "silly a.s" or more likely > "sillyass" has a tinge of class meaning. It was commonly used by or > about the upper classes, especially the younger male of the species. > Think "upper class twits". Bertie Wooster and his mates would be > likely to use the term, but their coalman or gardener would not. And was (probably not these days, though) pronounced "ahss" rather than "a.s". Can you remember ventriloquist Ray Allen's alter ego Lord Charles using the expression on BBC television in the early-1960s when "arse", silly or otherwise, would most certainly not have been allowed. Might this pronunciation have been related to the pronunciation of "Mass" as "mahss" is upper-class Roman Catholic circles ... cf the ITV production of "Brideshead Revisited" in, what was it, about 1980? Philip Eden > And was (probably not these days, though) pronounced "ahss" > rather than "a.s". Can you remember ventriloquist Ray Allen's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cf the ITV production of "Brideshead Revisited" in, what was it, > about 1980? There was a film, I think in the 50s, about a working class boy winning a scholarship to a public school, and in one scene, he is taken aback when a teacher calls him what sounds like "a silly arse". Some of my teachers at public school, who were 90% MA (Oxon), also used the expression. We boys were convinced they knew very well that the (or at least our) normal pronunciation of "a.s" rhymed not with "bass" nor "pass", but with "crass, lass, mass", and that they were doing it deliberately to provoke a reaction. Ah: brass, class, glass, grass, pass (calm vowel); E: crass, lass, mass (cash vowel); Ej: bass (case vowel). Now, I've been living in Australia for so long, my pronunciation has changed, so I no longer use quite those vowels. However, I'd like to know how other people in England use them: ie have they got the same distribution, in view of Philip's assertion about "mahss"? I know Northerners have the "cash" vowel in most of my "ah" list, but do they pronounce all these words as exact rhymes? Have I left any out? SignatureRob Bannister >> And was (probably not these days, though) pronounced "ahss" >> rather than "a.s". Can you remember ventriloquist Ray Allen's [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >Northerners have the "cash" vowel in most of my "ah" list, but do they >pronounce all these words as exact rhymes? Have I left any out? One of the most significant shibboleths is "bath". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > One of the most significant shibboleths is "bath". I don't know about shibboleths, but a significant word is "dance', which even here in Australia has two pronunciations according to where you are. SignatureRob Bannister >> One of the most significant shibboleths is "bath". >> >I don't know about shibboleths, but a significant word is "dance', which >even here in Australia has two pronunciations according to where you are. "Bath" has several different pronunciations, depending on where you are. "bahth" in Southern England "buth" in Northern England rhymes with "cash" in the USA. "borth" in South Africa (woozer) SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk "Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> wrote : > I don't know about shibboleths, but a significant word is "dance', which > even here in Australia has two pronunciations according to where you are. I was in a Gilbert & Sullivan troupe in Athens that included both Brits and Americans. The British director normally let the Americans get away with any pronunciation they liked, but she did interrupted the rehearsal when an American compatriot of mine sang the line "We are dainty little fairies, ever singing, ever dancing" with a pronounced Chicago accent. The director explained that, while G&S is for all Anglophones, there just seem to be certain lines that cannot accommodate a Chicago articulation. Somehow. > an > American compatriot of mine sang the line "We are dainty little fairies, > ever singing, ever dancing" with a pronounced Chicago accent. TLCIA, eh? Shouldn't that be: "We are dainty little 'fairies,' ever 'singing,' ever 'dancing'"? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> And was (probably not these days, though) pronounced "ahss" >> rather than "a.s". Can you remember ventriloquist Ray Allen's [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >E: crass, lass, mass (cash vowel); >Ej: bass (case vowel). There's also a subclahss of the first group: the MissSlocombE "trahnsport", "plahstic" and "pahsta". Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the 'cash' vowel?" SignatureRoss Howard >Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the >'cash' vowel?" I use tha "about" vowel for "pasta". I'm not sure what "taco" is. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the >>'cash' vowel?" > > I use tha "about" vowel for "pasta". Huh? You say "pusta", or do you say "poustou"? > I'm not sure what "taco" is. A kind of Mexican-associated food, possibly invented in postwar Texas. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >>>Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>>another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Huh? You say "pusta", or do you say "poustou"? pusta. >> I'm not sure what "taco" is. > >A kind of Mexican-associated food, possibly invented in postwar Texas. Irredentist cusine, then? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://people.tribe.net/hayesstw E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>>> Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion >>>> in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Irredentist cusine, then? Or a pool cue. SignatureFrank ess > I use tha "about" vowel for "pasta". > > I'm not sure what "taco" is. It bears the same resemblance to a taco as Areff's "pizza" does to his pizza. -=Eric >>Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm not sure what "taco" is. Look, most "Mexican" food consists of tortillas (soft chapatis made of maize) smothered in beans and a sauce made from tomatoes, capsicum and chilli. It probably also has fresh chilli, cheese and possibly lettuce. It has all sorts of fancy names like burrito, dorito, enchiladaito, etc-ito, but they're all more or less the same. Tacos are more like a very large corn chip, folded in half, and filled with same ingredients, cunningly designed so that when you take one bite, the whole thing disintegrates onto your lap. Nachos are smaller corn chips with the sauce and cheese baked on top so that you either burn your tongue on the hot cheese or your fingers on the hot plate. "Real" Mexican food apparently consists of normal roast chicken and vegetables smothered in bitter, chocolate sauce, but I doubt real Mexicans eat that. SignatureRob Bannister >>> Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>> another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > vegetables smothered in bitter, chocolate sauce, but I doubt real > Mexicans eat that. >>> Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>> another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > vegetables smothered in bitter, chocolate sauce, but I doubt real > Mexicans eat that. Oops. That was fun. Of course it left the question of what "taco" is still in the area of "not sure", and introduced negative knowledge in several areas. But fun, but. SignatureFrank ess >>>> Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in >>>> another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > But fun, but. Glad you enjoyed it. I do like Mexican food occasionally. SignatureRob Bannister >Look, most "Mexican" food consists of tortillas (soft chapatis made of >maize) smothered in beans and a sauce made from tomatoes, capsicum and >chilli. I'm not sure what the opposition is that you're trying to imply with "capsicum and chilli". The common Anaheim chile (N.B.: one "l", one "i" in AmE) is a capsicum: C. annuum, to be precise -- the same species as bell peppers, paprikas, jalapenos, and poblanos. >It probably also has fresh chilli, There you go again.... >cheese and possibly lettuce. It has all sorts of fancy names like >burrito, dorito, enchiladaito, etc-ito, but they're all more or less >the same. I can tell the difference between enchiladas and rellenos and carnitas, even if you can't. >Tacos are more like a very large corn chip, folded in half, and filled >with same ingredients, cunningly designed so that when you take one >bite, the whole thing disintegrates onto your lap. Tacos now seem a bit, well, skunked. Fifteen years ago, most Mexican-American restaurants served them; you could find "taco kits" in grocery stores. Today, tacos seem to be confined to fast-food places (not surprising as that's what they fundamentally are), at least outside of their "native territory". >Nachos are smaller corn chips with the sauce and cheese baked on top >so that you either burn your tongue on the hot cheese or your fingers >on the hot plate. Nachos have passed well beyond the role of "ethnic" appetizers; they're standard in nearly every bar and most casual-dining chain restaurants in the U.S. regardless of the type of cuisine. >"Real" Mexican food apparently consists of normal roast chicken and >vegetables smothered in bitter, chocolate sauce, but I doubt real >Mexicans eat that. This is no more true that to say that "Real" Chinese food is either fiery hot or made with fermented fish sauce. Yes, real Mexicans, in some parts of Mexico, on some occasions, do enjoy a good mole; see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(sauce)>. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>Look, most "Mexican" food consists of tortillas (soft chapatis made of >>maize) smothered in beans and a sauce made from tomatoes, capsicum and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "i" in AmE) is a capsicum: C. annuum, to be precise -- the same > species as bell peppers, paprikas, jalapenos, and poblanos. I am not writing American English, so it remains "chilli". I am quite aware that they all belong to the same species, but in Australia, "capsicum" is reserved for the large, sweet pepper (AmE bell pepper or mango). >>cheese and possibly lettuce. It has all sorts of fancy names like >>burrito, dorito, enchiladaito, etc-ito, but they're all more or less >>the same. > > I can tell the difference between enchiladas and rellenos and > carnitas, even if you can't. I knew someone would know. Don't forget, I was having a little joke about the huge numbers of "Mexican" restaurants run by people who haven't even been to Texas, let alone farther south. >>Tacos are more like a very large corn chip, folded in half, and filled >>with same ingredients, cunningly designed so that when you take one [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > places (not surprising as that's what they fundamentally are), at > least outside of their "native territory". In the Michael Marshall Smith novel I am re-reading, the central character is currently eating fish tacos in Ensenada. >>Nachos are smaller corn chips with the sauce and cheese baked on top >>so that you either burn your tongue on the hot cheese or your fingers [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they're standard in nearly every bar and most casual-dining chain > restaurants in the U.S. regardless of the type of cuisine. Here too. In fact, it's the sort of thing people serve up as an appetizer at BBQs. >>"Real" Mexican food apparently consists of normal roast chicken and >>vegetables smothered in bitter, chocolate sauce, but I doubt real >>Mexicans eat that. > > This is no more true that to say that "Real" Chinese food is either > fiery hot or made with fermented fish sauce. I think of the fish sauce thing as being primarily from countries south or SW of China. In fact, "fiery hot" + "fish sauce" sounds very Thai. Yes, real Mexicans, in > some parts of Mexico, on some occasions, do enjoy a good mole; see > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(sauce)>. Glad to hear it. SignatureRob Bannister > The common Anaheim chile (N.B.: one "l", one "i" in AmE) Eh? In my AmE experience, it's "chili". AHD seems to give that as the more common spelling as well. -Aaron J. Dinkin Dr. Whom >> The common Anaheim chile (N.B.: one "l", one "i" in AmE) > > Eh? In my AmE experience, it's "chili". AHD seems to give that as > the > more > common spelling as well. Eh? In my AmE/AmSp experience, it's "chili" for the bowl-o'-red, "chile" for the vegetable. SignatureFrank ess >>> The common Anaheim chile (N.B.: one "l", one "i" in AmE) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Eh? In my AmE/AmSp experience, it's "chili" for the bowl-o'-red, > "chile" for the vegetable. I've mainly encountered "chile" in usages by Southwestern United States Speakers (SUSSes). SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> Ah: brass, class, glass, grass, pass (calm vowel); >> E: crass, lass, mass (cash vowel); >> Ej: bass (case vowel). > There's also a subclahss of the first group: the MissSlocombE > "trahnsport", "plahstic" and "pahsta". Hypercorrection again - I seem to recall Miss Clocombe had a slight northern accent, and the long-a in these words is an indication of trying too hard to sound "posh" by dropping northernisms, and so converting even a-s which are short in southern EWnglish to long. > Hey, there's a possible tiebreaker for AmE/BrE under discussion in > another thread: "Do 'pasta' and 'taco' have the 'calm' vowel or the > 'cash' vowel?" "Cash" vowel all of them. Long-a in Catholic "mass" is for wannabe recusants. Matthew Huntbach >>> Ah: brass, class, glass, grass, pass (calm vowel); >>> E: crass, lass, mass (cash vowel); [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >trying too hard to sound "posh" by dropping northernisms, and so converting >even a-s which are short in southern EWnglish to long. My headmistress was definitely not northern, spoke RP, and said 'elahstic' and 'plahstic'. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > My headmistress was definitely not northern, spoke RP, and said > 'elahstic' and 'plahstic'. "Elahstic" is reasonably common, but I've heard very few people saying "plahstic". It always sounds so weird, I have to try hard not to laugh. Of course, the "short" vowel is still different between North and South. SignatureRob Bannister >>> There's also a subclahss of the first group: the MissSlocombE >>> "trahnsport", "plahstic" and "pahsta". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >My headmistress was definitely not northern, spoke RP, and said >'elahstic' and 'plahstic'. Hmm. I don't think of 'elahstic' and 'plahstic' as RP. I agree with Matthew: it's trying too hard to be posh (or indeed to speak RP, by someone who wasn't brought up to it). I could imagine the lady in Betjeman's poem "How to Get On in Society" ("Phone for the fish-knives, Norman") saying "Plahstic". SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> had it: > Ah: brass, class, glass, grass, pass (calm vowel); > E: crass, lass, mass (cash vowel); [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Northerners have the "cash" vowel in most of my "ah" list, but do they > pronounce all these words as exact rhymes? Have I left any out? My pronunciations correspond with yours (UK middle class Midlands childhood). But Children (Mancunian/Cheshire) and Wife (Yorkshire) pronounce all the words in the first two lists with the "cash" vowel. "bass (case)" is what I sing in my choir. The fish is different - it has the cash vowel. "daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. SignatureDavid ===== >"daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah >form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. I don't know whether it really is, but "daft" feels like a Northern word to me; hence the short "a". I have a problem with "lath and plaster". I'm sufficiently Sothern myself to have "ah" in plaster, but I learned the word "lath" from my Yorkshire father. David dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> had it: > >"daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah > >form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sothern myself to have "ah" in plaster, but I learned the word > "lath" from my Yorkshire father. I've never heard a "Southern" form of "lath". For me, those two words have two different vowels. SignatureDavid ===== >dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> had it: >> I have a problem with "lath and plaster". I'm sufficiently >> Sothern myself to have "ah" in plaster, but I learned the word >> "lath" from my Yorkshire father. > >I've never heard a "Southern" form of "lath". For me, those two >words have two different vowels. It's the first in COED10: /lA:T/. They have different vowels for me too, which is the problem. For most speakers they're the same, one way or the other. David >> dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > me too, which is the problem. For most speakers they're the > same, one way or the other. I was dumbfounded to see that NSOED doesn't give an alternative pronunciation for "lath". I've always said "lath" with the a of maths, Catholic and hath, but "plaster" with the "ah" vowel, and supposed that "lahth" was some kind of genteelism. Ah, well: I'm too old now to change my ways. Alan Jones >>> dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> had it: >>>> I have a problem with "lath and plaster". I'm sufficiently >>>> Sothern myself to have "ah" in plaster, but I learned the word >>>> "lath" from my Yorkshire father. >>> I've never heard a "Southern" form of "lath". For me, those two >>> words have two different vowels. >> It's the first in COED10: /lA:T/. They have different vowels for >> me too, which is the problem. For most speakers they're the >> same, one way or the other. > I was dumbfounded to see that NSOED doesn't give an alternative > pronunciation for "lath". I've always said "lath" with the a of maths, > Catholic and hath, but "plaster" with the "ah" vowel, and supposed that > "lahth" was some kind of genteelism. Ah, well: I'm too old now to change my > ways. "Lath and plaster" with the same long-a vowel in both was how the workmen I've had in my house over the past couple of years pronounced it, and they weren't genteel. It's normal southern pronunciation. Matthew Huntbach Matthew Huntbach wrote, in <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611031704070.4344@frank.dcs.qmul.ac.uk> on Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:07:44 +0000: > >>> dcw <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I've had in my house over the past couple of years pronounced it, and they > weren't genteel. It's normal southern pronunciation. I'm southern English by birth and upbringing but lath has always rhymed with hath and Catholic for me. SignatureNick Spalding > "daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah > form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. My "daft" has the Ah sound. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > My pronunciations correspond with yours (UK middle class Midlands > childhood). But Children (Mancunian/Cheshire) and Wife (Yorkshire) > pronounce all the words in the first two lists with the "cash" vowel. > "bass (case)" is what I sing in my choir. The fish is different - it > has the cash vowel. As I was writing it, I had a feeling there was another kind of bass, but I just didn't think of the fish. Years since I tasted bass - whoops, there's another one: the beer, also with "cash" vowel. > "daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah > form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. Our Ozzie vowel that replaces the "ah" vowel is sort of halfway, to my mind: somewhat longer than in "cash" and approaching "air". I only use the Midlands/Northern vowel after spending some time with my Leicestershire relations. SignatureRob Bannister >Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >"daft" is a good one. Many people who would otherwise use the Ah >form pronounce daft with the cash vowel. Including me. From my working-class north-Midlands origins, I'd pronounce all of those on Rob's list, including bass the fish, with the cat vowel. SignatureRobin Herts, England > Same animal. "Donkey" is the American word for "a.s" (the animal, > Equus asinis) and "jackass" is a male donkey. M-W says that "a.s" > comes from Old English but "donkey" is quite recent, 1785; etymology > unknown. The OED says A recent word, app. of dialect or slang origin. As the original pronunciation apparently rimed with _monkey_ (whence the spelling), suggestions have been made that the word is a deriv. of _dun_ adj. (cf. _dunnock_ hedge-sparrow), or, more probably, a familiar form of _Duncan_ (cf. the other colloquial appellations, _Dicky_, _Neddy_). SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |You gotta know when to code, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Know when to log out, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Know when to single step, | Know when you're through. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |You don't write your program (650)857-7572 | When you're sittin' at the term'nal. |There'll be time enough for writin' http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | When you're in the queue. Donna Richoux wrote, in <1ho4mob.10qvled1d1011cN%trio@euronet.nl> on Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:05:00 +0100: > > Steve Hayes filted: > > >I've heard Brits say that someone is a "silly a.s", and I've sometimes > > >said it myself. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Same animal. "Donkey" is the American word for "a.s" (the animal, Equus > asinis) and "jackass" is a male donkey. What's American about it? The animals have always been donkeys to me. What one had on the beach at holiday resorts was donkey rides, not a.s rides. I don't remember "a.s" being used much in England for the animal at all, though it is in Ireland, and it is in the King James Bible, John XII 14. SignatureNick Spalding >Donna Richoux wrote, in <1ho4mob.10qvled1d1011cN%trio@euronet.nl> > on Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:05:00 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >What's American about it? The animals have always been donkeys to me. Around here they're burros. ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > Around here they're burros. I'm learning something: I always thought burros were mules. SignatureRob Bannister >> Around here they're burros. >> >I'm learning something: I always thought burros were mules. No, *burro* is just Spanish for donkey/a.s. (And why Mexicans should eat little ones is anybody's guess.) SignatureRoss Howard T.H. Entity <gguiri@yahoo.com> had it: > >> Around here they're burros. > >> > >I'm learning something: I always thought burros were mules. > > No, *burro* is just Spanish for donkey/a.s. (And why Mexicans should > eat little ones is anybody's guess.) It's because the full-size ones don't fit on the plate, innit. I had a delicious one in a small Mexican restaurant in Edinburgh last week. SignatureDavid ===== the Omrud filted: >T.H. Entity <gguiri@yahoo.com> had it: > >> No, *burro* is just Spanish for donkey/a.s. (And why Mexicans should >> eat little ones is anybody's guess.) > >It's because the full-size ones don't fit on the plate, innit. No, it's because the donkey, alone among all God's creatures, *doesn't* taste like chicken....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >>>Around here they're burros. >> >>I'm learning something: I always thought burros were mules. > > No, *burro* is just Spanish for donkey/a.s. (And why Mexicans should > eat little ones is anybody's guess.) Well, when it comes to eating, I'm just glad it's "donkey/a.s" and not "donkey-a.s". SignatureRob Bannister Steve Hayes <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> had it: > >JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > They are not using the American word, since the American word is "donkey". Sorry, I meant any Brits you hear using the word "a.s" with the meaning "arse". The UK word "arse" is not pronounced "a.s". I'm not sure about "silly a.s" which is a fixed term of abuse without any real meaning. It doesn't seem to be referring to pack animals. SignatureDavid ===== > JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > to say that it's never pronounced the same as "a.s". Any Brits you > hear saying "a.s" are using the American word. > Most UK speakers pronounce it as written, depending on their own > accent - those who are rhotic introduce the rrrr sound. Comparing it > with "glass" is not much use as I say the word differently from the > way my children say it: "glaahs" vs "glas". Wrong (at least in my case) - I speak in a rhotic accent (W Country) as did my parents. They never heard the American word spoken in their childhood and they always pronounced "arse" to rhyme with glass (SW of Watling Street pronunciation) , as do I. JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > > JPG <j_peasemold_gruntfuttock@hotmail.com> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > childhood and they always pronounced "arse" to rhyme with glass (SW of > Watling Street pronunciation) , as do I. Doesn't that means you are agreeing with me? It looks as though you say "arse" and "a.s" differently. SignatureDavid ===== > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The individual components of the arse/a.s also differ either side of > the Atlantic. Half an arse is a bum in the UK, On yer bike. DC JPG filted: >> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >connection with fitness videos and TV commercials for exercise >equipment. Lest there be any confusion, I hereby submit a definition of "buttocks" that I found on the web a few years ago in connection with some kind of decency legislation: "The area at the rear of the human body (sometimes referred to as the gluteus maximus) which lies between two imaginary straight lines running parallel to the ground when a person is standing, the first or top such line being 1/2 inch below the top of the vertical cleavage of the nates (i.e., the prominence formed by the muscles running from the back of the hip to the back of the leg) and the second or bottom such line being 1/2 inch above the lowest point of the curvature of the fleshy protuberance (sometimes referred to as the gluteal fold), and between two imaginary straight lines, one on each side of the body (the 'outside lines'), which outside lines are perpendicular to the ground and to the horizontal lines described about and which perpendicular outside lines pass through the outermost point(s) at which each nate meets the outer side of each leg. Notwithstanding the above, Buttocks shall not include the leg, the hamstring muscle below the gluteal fold, the tensor fasciae latae muscle or any of the above-described portion of the human body that is between either (i) the left inside perpendicular line and the left outside perpendicular line or (ii) the right inside perpendicular line and right outside perpendicular line. For the purpose of the previous sentence, the left inside perpendicular line shall be an imaginary straight line on the left side of the anus (i) that is perpendicular to the ground and to the horizontal lines described about and (ii) that is 1/3 of the distance from the anus to the left outside line, and the right inside perpendicular line shall be an imaginary straight line on the right side of the anus (i) that is perpendicular to the ground and to the horizontal lines described above and (ii) that is 1/3 of the distance from the anus to the right outside line." I hope this proves useful....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. > Lest there be any confusion, I hereby submit a definition of "buttocks" > that I found on the web a few years ago in connection with some kind of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > I hope this proves useful....r The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees one. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Roland Hutchinson filted: >> Lest there be any confusion, I hereby submit a definition of "buttocks" >> that I found on the web a few years ago in connection with some kind of >> decency legislation: <definition snipped this time out> >The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees >one. And clearly wishes to be certain that everyone else is equipped to make the same determination....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >> Lest there be any confusion, I hereby submit a definition of "buttocks" >> that I found on the web a few years ago in connection with some kind of >> decency legislation: >> "The area at the rear of the human body (sometimes referred to as the ... >> I hope this proves useful....r > The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees > one. When Dickens coined the phrase "the law is a a.s", he would not have supposed the word "a.s" referred to the area at the rear of the human body. Matthew Huntbach Roland Hutchinson: > > The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees > > one. Matthew Huntbach: > When Dickens coined the phrase "the law is a a.s", he would not have supposed > the word "a.s" referred to the area at the rear of the human body. Er, yes, that's why it was a good joke. SignatureMark Brader | "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. Toronto | I said I didn't know." msb@vex.net | --Mark Twain, "Life on the Mississippi" > Roland Hutchinson: >>> The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees >>> one. > Matthew Huntbach: >> When Dickens coined the phrase "the law is a a.s", he would not have supposed >> the word "a.s" referred to the area at the rear of the human body. > Er, yes, that's why it was a good joke. Why? I think it would have been much funnier if the detailed legal description of BrE "arse"/AmE "a.s" had been in response to a use of this actual word as an insult, rather than in rersponse to use of a completely different word which just happens to sound the same in AmE pronuniciation. Matthew Huntbach >> Roland Hutchinson: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Matthew Huntbach You're not by any chance a native German speaker, are you? This is precisely the kind of English pun that doesn't go over in German. The two words are unrelated so it isn't a proper "Wortscherz" or sommat. Here's one that is: Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to admire a candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks one to the other: "There's a divinity that shapes our ends." SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > You're not by any chance a native German speaker, are you? This is > precisely the kind of English pun that doesn't go over in German. The two [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks > one to the other: "There's a divinity that shapes our ends." If it's somehow meant to relate to German, why didn't you spell it "saftig"? SignatureRob Bannister > > Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to admire a > > candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks > > one to the other: "There's a divinity that shapes our ends." > > If it's somehow meant to relate to German, why didn't you spell it "saftig"? MW11 Main Entry: zaf·tig Function: adjective Etymology: Yiddish zaftik juicy, succulent, from zaft juice, sap, from Middle High German saf, saft, from Old High German saf -- more at SAP Date: circa 1936 of a woman : having a full rounded figure : pleasingly plump SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >>>Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to admire a >>>candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Date: circa 1936 > of a woman : having a full rounded figure : pleasingly plump You were missing the point. I know the Yiddish word "zaftig", but the writer was somehow trying to make a point about German, rather than Yiddish. SignatureRob Bannister > >>>Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to admire a > >>>candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You were missing the point. I know the Yiddish word "zaftig", but the > writer was somehow trying to make a point about German, rather than Yiddish. Then you miss *my* point. MW11 is an *English* dictionary. I see no need to drag in thoughts of multilingual wordplay. Zaftig is English. By the way, different topic. It seems like progressive verbs are everywhere now -- would it have worked the same for you to have written, "You missed the point" and "the writer somehow tried"? I know I'm doing -- that is, I do -- this, too. It seems to be in the air. Maybe it's tied to the rapid pace of technological change, we have to keep indicating the "now"... SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >>>>>Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to admire a >>>>>candy shop window with a displaying several varieties of fudge. Remarks [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Then you miss *my* point. MW11 is an *English* dictionary. I see no need > to drag in thoughts of multilingual wordplay. Zaftig is English. Pondial. > By the way, different topic. It seems like progressive verbs are > everywhere now -- would it have worked the same for you to have written, > "You missed the point" and "the writer somehow tried"? I know I'm doing > -- that is, I do -- this, too. It seems to be in the air. Maybe it's > tied to the rapid pace of technological change, we have to keep > indicating the "now"... Good point, or are we listening to too many Indians? SignatureRob Bannister >>>>>>Two rather zaftig young ladies are out for a stroll and pause to >>>>>>admire a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Pondial. Oh, so it is indeed! OED says "U.S. colloq." and adds varient spellings: zoftig, zofti(c)k. Who knew? (BrE: gey vays!) SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>Then you miss *my* point. MW11 is an *English* dictionary. I see no need >>>to drag in thoughts of multilingual wordplay. Zaftig is English. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Who knew? (BrE: gey vays!) British English, mainly in the London area, does use a few Yiddish words, but a lot less than New York, and probably a different set of words. Half the time, people aren't even sure whether they are Yiddish or Gypsy or rhyming slang. SignatureRob Bannister >> You're not by any chance a native German speaker, are you? This is >> precisely the kind of English pun that doesn't go over in German. The [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If it's somehow meant to relate to German, why didn't you spell it > "saftig"? Because in English, it's a loanword form Yiddish, and usually spelled as I spelled it. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>> Roland Hutchinson: >>>>> The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it >>>>> sees one. >>> Matthew Huntbach: >>>> When Dickens coined the phrase "the law is a a.s", he would not have >>>> supposed the word "a.s" referred to the area at the rear of the human >>>> body. >>> Er, yes, that's why it was a good joke. >> Why? I think it would have been much funnier if the detailed legal >> description of BrE "arse"/AmE "a.s" had been in response to a use >> of this actual word as an insult, rather than in rersponse to use of a >> completely different word which just happens to sound the same in AmE >> pronuniciation. > You're not by any chance a native German speaker, are you? This is > precisely the kind of English pun that doesn't go over in German. The two > words are unrelated so it isn't a proper "Wortscherz" or sommat. Here's > one that is: No, as I have explained several times in this newsgroup, the "-bach" ending in my surname is entirely English, it's the same ending that its found in the town of Sandbach in Cheshire and in a few other placenames around the West Midlands. I didn't see this as a pun. The humour comes from a word being used as a casual insult, but then the law, instead of taking it that way, solemnly coming up with a strict definition of the entity actually meant by that insult word. So I think the humour in "The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it knows one when it sees one" followed by a lengthy legal defintion of the buttocks works only if one supposes "a.s" means "buttocks". If one supposes, as I do that "a.s" means an animal noted for its stubbornness, the joke would be funny if it had been accompanied by a lengthy legal definition of this particular animal. Matthew Huntbach >> You're not by any chance a native German speaker, are you? This is >> precisely the kind of English pun that doesn't go over in German. The [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > found in the town of Sandbach in Cheshire and in a few other placenames > around the West Midlands. 's is okay! Having an English surname doesn't preclude being a native 1st language or bilingual speaker of another language, of course. I've got a northern English surname meself, and I only speak American natively, f'rinst. > I didn't see this as a pun. Yeah. We twigged on that. No biggie. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >I've got a northern English surname meself, and I only speak American >natively, f'rinst. There are a good number of Francophone Quebeckers with very English family names. I recall from the 1992 Winter Olympics (the last time I bothered to watch) a speed skater named Frederic Blackburn, who had to speak through a translator when interviewed. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > So I think the humour in "The law may not realize that it is an a.s, but it > knows one when it sees one" followed by a lengthy legal defintion of the > buttocks works only if one supposes [that in the original text] "a.s" > means "buttocks". ... And I say the joke was funnier because it didn't mean that. Weird thing, the sense of humor. SignatureMark Brader "I like to think of [this] as self-explanatory." Toronto "I hope *I* think of [it] that way." msb@vex.net -- Donald Westlake: "Trust Me On This" > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, > bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, jacksie, chuff and many other > words of varying degrees of vulgarity. It is usually pronounced the > same as the American a.s (to rhyme with 'glass'). Americans pronounce "a.s" with the vowel in "cash". (Depending on where you're from in the UK, "glass" is pronounced with the "a" in "father" or the "a" in "cash".) Peacenik <cnelsonpublic@hotmail.com> had it: > > > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you're from in the UK, "glass" is pronounced with the "a" in "father" or the > "a" in "cash".) Although to continue confusing the foreigners, in some parts of the North, "father" is pronounced "fayther". SignatureDavid ===== > The individual components of the arse/a.s also differ either side of > the Atlantic. Half an arse is a bum in the UK, a bun in the US, > although in the UK a bum can often refer to the whole arse, and half an > arse a cheek or bum-cheek (to distinguish from face cheek). I'm not aware of "bum" ever having the meaning of a single buttock in the UK. So far as I'm aware, it always refers to both. Matthew Huntbach The Matthew Huntbach entity posted thusly: >> The individual components of the arse/a.s also differ either side of >> the Atlantic. Half an arse is a bum in the UK, a bun in the US, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I'm not aware of "bum" ever having the meaning of a single buttock in the >UK. So far as I'm aware, it always refers to both. It's always meant both cheeks (lower) in Canadian English. >> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) Yes - although "arsehole" is rather more colloquial. >Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, >bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, Aris, I believe. Double rhyming slang. Aris = Aristotle --> bottle = bottle and glass** --> arse ** "bo'hl n glars" - with a glottal stop. >jacksie, chuff and many other >words of varying degrees of vulgarity. Some of those are the buttocks, some the rectum. "Arse" can be either, according to context. >It is usually pronounced the >same as the American a.s (to rhyme with 'glass'). Without wishing to muddy the anatomical waters of this thread, that's bollocks. In every part of England that I'm familiar with, "arse" rhymes with "farce". It only rhymes with "glass" in those parts in which the latter is pronounced with a long vowel. >Half an arse is a bum in the UK Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned elsewhere), I don't know it. Cheers - Ian (BrE - Yorks., Notts., Hants.) >Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned >elsewhere), I don't know it. But if you pinch a barmaid's arse, you pinch but one buttock unless you have very big hands or she has a very narrow one. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >> Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang >> term for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned >> elsewhere), I don't know it. >> > But if you pinch a barmaid's arse, you pinch but one buttock unless > you have very big hands or she has a very narrow one. So, should there be a word meaning half of one's "bum" or "arse"? And what about "butt"? Here, we'd say "he pinched her butt" (or her "a.s"), with no need to mention that the pinching was done to only one cheek. Wouldn't we? SignatureMaria >>> Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang >>> term for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >what about "butt"? Here, we'd say "he pinched her butt" (or her "a.s"), >with no need to mention that the pinching was done to only one cheek. Shouldn't we mention what a 'tain't is, which can certainly be pinched? Anyway, it is singular and in the same general area, even if not half a butt. Pinching one in a pub would be both tricky and cheeky, but I suppose it is possible. >Wouldn't we? SignatureCharles Riggs >>>> Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang >>>> term for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Shouldn't we mention what a 'tain't is, which can certainly be > pinched? Um... you'll have to do the mentioning. I have no clue what a "'taint" is, other than a version of "it ain't." > ...Anyway, it is singular and in the same general area, even if > not half a butt. Pinching one in a pub would be both tricky and > cheeky, but I suppose it is possible. Don't try until you know for sure. SignatureMaria The Maria entity posted thusly: >>>>> Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang >>>>> term for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Um... you'll have to do the mentioning. I have no clue what a "'taint" >is, other than a version of "it ain't." Gadzooks! I must have first heard that one when I was still in high school. It's that little bit between the anus and vulva. Politely, "Tain't one, tain't the other." >> ...Anyway, it is singular and in the same general area, even if >> not half a butt. Pinching one in a pub would be both tricky and >> cheeky, but I suppose it is possible. > >Don't try until you know for sure. >The Maria entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Gadzooks! I must have first heard that one when I was still in high >school. It's that little bit between the anus and vulva. Where's Rey? The vulva is not the vagina. >Politely, "Tain't one, tain't the other." > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >>Don't try until you know for sure. In any case, I'd have to know the girl very well. SignatureCharles Riggs The Charles Riggs entity posted thusly: >>The Maria entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >Where's Rey? The vulva is not the vagina. Correct. That's why I said vulva and not vagina. Depends on exactly what is meant by "taint", that is, how deep you want to delve into the matter, as it were. To me, it's the outer part, definitely between the vulva and anus. >>Politely, "Tain't one, tain't the other." It's quite clear in the not-so-polite version. "Tain't a.shole, tain't c.nt" >>>> ...Anyway, it is singular and in the same general area, even if >>>> not half a butt. Pinching one in a pub would be both tricky and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >In any case, I'd have to know the girl very well. Indeed. > The Charles Riggs entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Indeed. Tain't funny, McGee. SignatureFrank ess > The Maria entity posted thusly: >>> Shouldn't we mention what a 'tain't is, which can certainly be >>> pinched? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Gadzooks! I must have first heard that one when I was still in high > school. It's that little bit between the anus and vulva. I never heard much of anything like that in high school. And I don't recall hearing the "'tain't" thing before now (though it may have been mentioned in aue in the past and I've forgotten about it). SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >> The Maria entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >recall hearing the "'tain't" thing before now (though it may have been >mentioned in aue in the past and I've forgotten about it). There is an honest-to-God community (may have "town" status) in Florida named "Taintsville". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SP-KP/ToDo/salvage2#T So-named because the people who live there taint in Oviedo and taint in Chuluota. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>> The Maria entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > So-named because the people who live there taint in Oviedo and taint > in Chuluota. 'Taint the people. 'Tis the town. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >The Maria entity posted thusly: [...] >>> Shouldn't we mention what a 'tain't is, which can certainly be >>> pinched? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Politely, "Tain't one, tain't the other." New to me. I have heard it called a "gooch" by a body piercing operative. There was another term that I can't recall. The explanation was that "if you missed the <word>, you were in the sh.t". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >>The Maria entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >New to me. I have heard it called a "gooch" by a body piercing >operative. Apparently it should be spelt "guiche" and pronounced "geesh". SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >> Gadzooks! I must have first heard that one when I was still in high >> school. It's that little bit between the anus and vulva. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > There was another term that I can't recall. The explanation was that > "if you missed the <word>, you were in the sh.t". That's from a riddle that was current in my schooldays. Q. What's a fact? A. There's a little bit of tissue between the muckhole and the fuckhole. If you break that you're in the sh.t, and that's a fact. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >>Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >>for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned >>elsewhere), I don't know it. >> >But if you pinch a barmaid's arse, you pinch but one buttock unless >you have very big hands or she has a very narrow one. Even then, could it be a "pinch"? SignatureCharles Riggs >>Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >>for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned >>elsewhere), I don't know it. >> >But if you pinch a barmaid's arse, you pinch but one buttock unless >you have very big hands or she has a very narrow one. To me a pinch can only involve a very small portion of one buttock. If the size of your hand matters, that's a grope. And anyway - if you were to pinch a barmaid's arse, her legs would fall off. Cheers - Ian >>>Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >>>for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >To me a pinch can only involve a very small portion of one buttock. >If the size of your hand matters, that's a grope. That was my point. The pinch isn't going to encompass a wider area than a portion of one buttock, but we still say "He pinched her arse". SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>>>Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >>>>for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >That was my point. The pinch isn't going to encompass a wider area >than a portion of one buttock, but we still say "He pinched her arse". What's this "we" sh.t, kimosabe? Tony, who lives in Orlando, would be expected to speak AmE. SignatureCharles Riggs >>>>Never heard of it. "Bum" is the whole thing. If there's a slang term >>>>for one buttock (other than the "cheek" constructs mentioned [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >That was my point. The pinch isn't going to encompass a wider area >than a portion of one buttock, but we still say "He pinched her arse". Well, yes. Just as we might say "she punched his arm", or "he patted her leg", refering to a rather larger area than that actually involved. It's not obvious that there's any relation between the scale of activity and the size of area refered to; merely that the more general area be a recognised one. So "buttock" is one possibility, "arse" another; we can't conclude from that, that they've ever been taken to be the same thing, nor does there seem to be any reason why they should be (any more than, had I earlier written "he patted her thigh", we'd assume "thigh" to be an exact synonym for "leg"). Now - if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to go and take a quick cold shower... Cheers - Ian (BrE: Yorks., Notts., Hants.) > Well, yes. Just as we might say "she punched his arm", or "he patted > her leg", refering to a rather larger area than that actually [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Now - if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to go and take a quick cold > shower... So far, no-one's mentioned "booty", a presumably American word that has only recently started appearing in print. I guessed the meaning, but I looked it up in M-W yesterday. SignatureRob Bannister > So far, no-one's mentioned "booty", a presumably American word that > has only recently started appearing in print. I guessed the meaning, > but I looked it up in M-W yesterday. The OED cites it to 1959 (1926 in the sense of "sexual intercourse" or a person desired sexually). The call it "slang (orig. and chiefly among African-Americans)". They opine that it's "probably an altered form of _botty_" (from "bottom"), which they cite to 1874. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |I like giving talks to industry, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |because one of the things that I've Palo Alto, CA 94304 |found is that you really can't |learn anything at the Harvard kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |Business School. (650)857-7572 | Clayton Christensen | Harvard Business School http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>So far, no-one's mentioned "booty", a presumably American word that >>has only recently started appearing in print. I guessed the meaning, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > among African-Americans)". They opine that it's "probably an altered > form of _botty_" (from "bottom"), which they cite to 1874. I am truly amazed at the date. I have never heard the word spoken and only started noticing in print (mainly on the Net) this year. M-W prefers "buttocks" as the origin. SignatureRob Bannister >>> But if you pinch a barmaid's arse, you pinch but one buttock >>> unless you have very big hands or she has a very narrow one. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > than a portion of one buttock, but we still say "He pinched her > arse". For me the canonical "pinch" is done with the thumb and one finger, it involves gripping a small portion of skin, and it is painful to the pinchee [1]. As far as I know that is almost never what is meant by "he pinched her arse". In other words, the "pinched" in that expression is a euphemism for "groped". [1] For the meaning of "pinch" that is relevant to this discussion. I don't deny that there are other meanings. "He pinched her a.s" is a clear case of theft rather than assault. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >> Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, >> bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, > Aris, I believe. Double rhyming slang. > Aris = Aristotle --> bottle = bottle and glass** --> arse > > ** "bo'hl n glars" - with a glottal stop. I've heard it put as "bottle of rum --> bum". In either case, I think the claimed derivation is meant to be humorous. It would imply there is a usage "bottle" for "arse/bum" so common that it became rhyming slanged itself. But there is no such usage, and no other case of "double rhyming slang". I think it much more likely that "aris" is just another pronunciation of "arse", where the "rs" sound is resolved by putting a vowel between the two consonants rather than dropping the "r". Matthew Huntbach >I think it much more likely that "aris" is just another pronunciation of >"arse", where the "rs" sound is resolved by putting a vowel between the >two consonants rather than dropping the "r". Considering how much sniggering the average teenage boy can get out of Polonius being stabbed in the arris I think you're right. SignatureOn-line canal route planner: http://www.canalplan.org.uk (Waterways World site of the month, April 2001) My Reply-To address *is* valid, though likely to die soon >>Arse is the British English word (vulgar usage) for the posterior, >>bottom, backside, buttocks, seat, 'arris, > >Aris, I believe. Double rhyming slang. >Aris = Aristotle --> bottle = bottle and glass** --> arse And plaster = plaster of Paris --> Aris. Triple rhyming slang, allegedly. I've heard it once or twice, but only on television. David > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > Not as bad as an /a.s/, I guess? In BrE or AmE? Discussion in this nerwsgroup suggests AmE speakers do not have the word "arse" in their vocabularly, therefore it is meaningless to call someone an "arse", there is no comparison to be made. In old-fashioned BrE, it is much ruder to call someone an "arse" than to call them an "a.s". To call someone an "a.s" is to liken them to an animal, to call someone an "arse" is to use an obscenity. Prim schoolteachers might call their pupils "an a.s", they wouldn't even mouthe the word "arse". In modern BrE 1) Obscenities are much more widely used, while if one was being polite or formal one would not use the word "arse", it would be hard to find anyone who would be seriously offended by it. 2) We have been semi-Americanised, the young more than the old. Many of the young have already reached the point where "a.s" is used in the American way in preference to "arse". Older people would at least have the knowledege that in the form of English they often encounter in films and televisdion, "a.s" means what they call "arse" and so would not use it in the old-fashioned way to imply a four-legged animal known for its stubbornness. Matthew Huntbach > Discussion in this nerwsgroup suggests AmE speakers do not have the > word "arse" in their vocabularly, It's a fairly well-known Briticism, rather like "lift" for elevator, I'd say. Oh, that reminds me of a question, but I'll raise it in a separate posting. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> Discussion in this nerwsgroup suggests AmE speakers do not have the >> word "arse" in their vocabularly, > >It's a fairly well-known Briticism, rather like "lift" for elevator, I'd >say. Oh, that reminds me of a question, but I'll raise it in a separate >posting. Of course, since "a.s" as the word for the part of one's body one sits on is derived from "arse" and not vice versa, it might be better to think of "a.s" as a well-known Americanism. ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > 2) We have been semi-Americanised, the young more than the old. Many of > the young have already reached the point where "a.s" is used in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would not use it in the old-fashioned way to imply a four-legged > animal known for its stubbornness. Younger Australians may correct me, but I don't think we have adopted "a.s" in the same way. However, "butt" is definitely commonly used by the common. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> had it: > > 2) We have been semi-Americanised, the young more than the old. Many of > > the young have already reached the point where "a.s" is used in the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "a.s" in the same way. However, "butt" is definitely commonly used by > the common. Was "butt" considered significantly rude in the US in the 70s? The wonderful Harry Chapin (I met him and shook his hand in 1977), in his song "WOLD", sings "There's a tyre around my gut, from sitting on my butt". In the commercial recordings the word "butt" is replaced by a drum shot. Was it so shocking that Harry couldn't put it on a record? SignatureDavid ===== > Was "butt" considered significantly rude in the US in the 70s? The > wonderful Harry Chapin (I met him and shook his hand in 1977), in his > song "WOLD", sings "There's a tyre around my gut, from sitting on my > butt". In the commercial recordings the word "butt" is replaced by a > drum shot. Was it so shocking that Harry couldn't put it on a > record? There certainly were no regulations on what language one could put on commercial recordings back then. I suppose there has always been substantial self-censorship. What was common in those days, and earlier, was the comical use of sounds understood to be blocking out rude words (as a way of comically calling attention to them); it sounds like this was an example of such humor, but maybe not. "Butt", a slightly rude word then, would, I think, not have been said in non-extemporaneous speech on television in the US during the 1970s (or earlier) (non-rehearsed speech on certain game shows being, possibly, another matter). Indeed, I think that may also have been true of most of the 1980s. SignatureBuckwheat Soba The the Omrud entity posted thusly: >Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Was "butt" considered significantly rude in the US in the 70s? The >wonderful Harry Chapin (I met him and shook his hand in 1977), I would love to have met him and chatted. > in his >song "WOLD", sings "There's a tyre around my gut, from sitting on my >butt". In the commercial recordings the word "butt" is replaced by a >drum shot. Was it so shocking that Harry couldn't put it on a >record? "Butt" was considered slightly rude. Not as rude as a.s, I think. Other word that seem to have lost their rudeness is "suck" as in "you suck", and "blows". > Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) > > Not as bad as an /a.s/, I guess? > > -- > Per, Esbjerg In Australia, it's arse, as it is in the UK. The word is considered a good deal for offensive than "a.s", even when someone is using a.s as Americans do. Likewise, arse is also considered a lot more offensive than "butt" which is verging on the comical. I remember being shocked when I first heard that theme from "The Nanny" where she is "kicked out on her fanny". It seemed very racy for the US which is normally so prim. "Fanny" in the US is a synonym for "butt", unlike in Australia where it means "vagina". TOF TOF <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> had it: > "Fanny" in the US is a synonym for "butt", unlike in Australia where it > means "vagina". So, where is Rey? SignatureDavid ===== > TOF <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> had it: > > > "Fanny" in the US is a synonym for "butt", unlike in Australia where it > > means "vagina". > > So, where is Rey? Hiding under a rock beside a stagnant pond, no doubt. He does tend to choose the most salubrious venue that will have him. TOF >>TOF <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> had it: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hiding under a rock beside a stagnant pond, no doubt. He does tend to > choose the most salubrious venue that will have him. Nevertheless, he would have quite rightly jumped on you for using "vagina" when you meant "vulva". SignatureRob Bannister > >>TOF <Fran.Beta@gmail.com> had it: > >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Nevertheless, he would have quite rightly jumped on you for using > "vagina" when you meant "vulva". That's a fair objection, although I suspect most people using "fanny" in this way would not appreciate the important anatomical distinction, in part because slang terms, by definition, are used loosely. I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words like "muff, minge and pussy". They'd never appear in a jingle or theme for a program, but in the just-axed Glasshouse, at least 2 of these appeared last night. I think these terms are regulars in Little Britain though. TOF > I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang > term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words > like "muff, minge and pussy". A usage question: When wanting to mention three words (or any number greater than one), is it all right to put them within one set of quotes? Or should they be handled thus -- "muff," "minge," and "pussy." (The commas and the period would be placed according to local custom.) I would tend to use multiple sets of quotes, but I'm not sure that is necessary in other countries or even in current days in the US. SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. > > I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang > > term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I would tend to use multiple sets of quotes, but I'm not sure that is > necessary in other countries or even in current days in the US. So would I, but I was just being lazy. I couldn't be bothered typing three sets of quotes. I suppose technically, it could all be a quote from somewhere, or I could pretend it was, but since it wasn't, corrrect punctuation would have been as you suggest, IMO. TOF > -- > Maria > Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. > There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >> A usage question: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > from somewhere, or I could pretend it was, but since it wasn't, > corrrect punctuation would have been as you suggest, IMO. Thanks for the reply. We live in such a changing world, it's often hard to know for sure how things are currently done in countries other than our own. SignatureMaria >>> A usage question: >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >to know for sure how things are currently done in countries other than >our own. The reason James Joyce often gave for leaving his home country to live in Switzerland was its insularity. Nationalism is one of the curses of mankind, no matter where one lives -- additional ones, for the Irish, are drink, the Church, and the English, someone wrote. SignatureCharles Riggs >> ......... We live in such a changing world, it's often >> hard to know for sure how things are currently done in countries [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mankind, no matter where one lives -- additional ones, for the Irish, > are drink, the Church, and the English, someone wrote. There are many curses in this world, and they aren't showing signs of going away. Incidentally, and not limited to Ireland: Instead of "the Church," I would say "maniacal religious fanaticism." Instead of "drink," I would say "excessive drink" (or even "substance abuse"). And as for the English, well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. I think even Michigan has better weather than Britain. Tennessee definitely does. SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. > And as for the > English, well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. I think even > Michigan has better weather than Britain. As a sometime resident of Washtenaw County, I'd have to question that. I'll grant you that Michigan has better weather than Chicago (TLCIA). SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> And as for the >> English, well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. I think >> even Michigan has better weather than Britain. > > As a sometime resident of Washtenaw County, I'd have to question that. > I'll grant you that Michigan has better weather than Chicago (TLCIA). Washtenaw County, home of the University of Michigan, is one of the less climatically (and otherwise) pleasant areas in the state. Isabella County, wherein Michigan State University (my daughter's alma mater) is located, has much better weather and is otherwise superior to Washtenaw. I'm not sure that Prof. Lawler would agree. SignatureMaria [...] > And as for the > English, well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. [...] Funny, that: I'm trying, in vain, to remember the last good fog we had over here. If I'm not driving, I rather like it. There are places which are prone to it, of course, but I rarely seem to be in them. The real English McCoy was smog; but that was abolished fifty years ago. (I was startled to learn from the TV this evening that the least foggy place is Prestwick -- Glasgow's airport, and the only part of the UK ever visited by E.Aaron Presley.) SignatureMike. > [...] >> And as for the >> English, well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. [...] > > Funny, that: I'm trying, in vain, to remember the last good fog we had > over here. And the sunny days? We've had a few just this past week. By the way, I can't remember our last good fog, either -- not that there's such a thing as a good fog. [NTTSATAAGF in BuckyE.] > ....If I'm not driving, I rather like it. There are places > which are prone to it, of course, but I rarely seem to be in them. > The real English McCoy was smog; but that was abolished fifty years > ago. (I was startled to learn from the TV this evening that the least > foggy place is Prestwick -- Glasgow's airport, and the only part of > the UK ever visited by E.Aaron Presley.) That's E. Aron Presley, IINM. SignatureMaria >> (I was startled to learn from the TV this evening that the least >> foggy place is Prestwick -- Glasgow's airport, and the only part of >> the UK ever visited by E.Aaron Presley.) > >That's E. Aron Presley, IINM. Well, yes and no. He was registered as Aron at birth but apparently as an adult he always planned to change it to Aaron, so his family put "Aaron" on his tombstone in accordance with that wish. SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) On 09 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote > [...] >> And as for the English, well, they just need more sunny days >> and less fog. >> [...] > > Funny, that: I'm trying, in vain, to remember the last good fog > we had over here. We get fairly regular very-heavy-morning-mists-that-are-near-as- dammit-fog here in Basingstoke -- had that a couple of weeks ago. (Doubtless to do with topography -- I believe we're a bit lower than the surrounding areas.) The Thames Valley has the same thing -- some horrendous fog-bound driving can be seen on the M4. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > Incidentally, and not limited to Ireland: Instead of "the Church," I would > say "maniacal religious fanaticism." Instead of "drink," I would say > "excessive drink" (or even "substance abuse"). And as for the English, > well, they just need more sunny days and less fog. I think even Michigan > has better weather than Britain. Tennessee definitely does. That's frightfully subjective. I actually dread British summers because of the heat and humidity. Any temperature above 22°C (72°F) is a trial ... my ideal is around 18°C (64°F) but only if the humidity is low. As for the USA, well, Anchorage might do. Philip Eden >>Incidentally, and not limited to Ireland: Instead of "the Church," I would >>say "maniacal religious fanaticism." Instead of "drink," I would say [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (72°F) is a trial ... my ideal is around 18°C (64°F) but only if > the humidity is low. As for the USA, well, Anchorage might do. Ouch. 18 is cold. I don't like it very hot, and I really hate humidity, but 21-27°, dry, is my idea of perfect weather. SignatureRob Bannister The Robert Bannister entity posted thusly: >>>Incidentally, and not limited to Ireland: Instead of "the Church," I would >>>say "maniacal religious fanaticism." Instead of "drink," I would say [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Ouch. 18 is cold. I don't like it very hot, and I really hate humidity, >but 21-27°, dry, is my idea of perfect weather. 0 to 90 (F), dry, is mine. >The Robert Bannister entity posted thusly: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >0 to 90 (F), dry, is mine. Freezing or somewhat above, and moist, is mine. SignatureCharles Riggs The Charles Riggs entity posted thusly: >>The Robert Bannister entity posted thusly: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Freezing or somewhat above, and moist, is mine. In my area of the country (Saskatchewan), we often get autumn days hovering between about 25 and 35, very humid, and to me, extremely uncomfortable. Those days make me look forward with anticipation to the coming dry days at anything below about -10. I can only stand humid days if they are in the 55-65 range. > Ouch. 18 is cold. I don't like it very hot, and I really hate > humidity, but 21-27°, dry, is my idea of perfect weather. Agreed (although I could go a little higher), but only if you're talking about daytime temperatures. When it stays above 20 all night I find it difficult to sleep. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >> Ouch. 18 is cold. I don't like it very hot, and I really hate >> humidity, but 21-27°, dry, is my idea of perfect weather. > > Agreed (although I could go a little higher), but only if you're talking > about daytime temperatures. When it stays above 20 all night I find it > difficult to sleep. It's been a long time since we had 30° at midnight in Perth. I hope I never have to live through it again. For the daytime: when I lived in Meekatharra, which is more or less in the desert, 40° was quite comfortable and yet I can remember being in Sydney with only 30° when the humidity was almost unbearable. I never understand why people want to retire to places like Florida or Queensland - I could have endured climates like that when I was younger, but the thought of that kind of weather in old age is frightening. SignatureRob Bannister > For the daytime: when I lived in Meekatharra, which is more or less > in the desert, 40° was quite comfortable and yet I can remember being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > younger, but the thought of that kind of weather in old age is > frightening. There's definitely a linkage between temperature preferences and age. In my younger days I loved the summer, and felt that 35-40 was about the right temperature for the swimming season, and I hated the winters. Now I find myself looking forward to winter. The idea of retiring to a warm climate is most attractive if you happen to live in an area that's miserably cold in winter. I have the impression that the Australian "sea change" move to Queensland comes mainly from people from Melbourne, and that Florida attracts people from the chilly north of the USA. Another reason for retiring to the coast is that people have mental images of those lazy hazy crazy days of summer, when life was filled with swimming, surfing, and watching scantily-clad members of the opposite sex. In fact older people spend little time at the beach, even when it's close at hand, but we allow our ideals and our memories to override the reality. My own maternal grandparents retired to a town they'd known in their youth, because "that's where all their friends were". Everyone else tried to tell them that in 40 years most of those friends would have died or moved elsewhere, but they went anyway. I'd retire to the bush myself, except that I can't tear myself away from city conveniences like libraries, theatres, and so on. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > Another reason for retiring to the coast is that people have mental > images of those lazy hazy crazy days of summer, when life was filled > with swimming, surfing, and watching scantily-clad members of the > opposite sex. In fact older people spend little time at the beach, even > when it's close at hand, but we allow our ideals and our memories to > override the reality. My mother's cousin did that: moved from Adelaide to Port Noarlunga, but they almost never went to the beach. > My own maternal grandparents retired to a town they'd known in their > youth, because "that's where all their friends were". Everyone else [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'd retire to the bush myself, except that I can't tear myself away from > city conveniences like libraries, theatres, and so on. Same thing here: I have fond memories of Albany, where I spent 11 years and where (in my mind) I have lots of friends, but I am sure that they have moved or changed their life-styles by now and, like you, I find city life more convenient. This again can be self-delusion: all those years I lived in and around London and people asked me why, and I kept saying the theatres, etc., while knowing full well that I hadn't been to one in years. Even here, in tiny Perth, I mainly frequent local restaurants, rather than ones in the city - and the city is barely 2 kilometres' walk away. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister wrote, in <4s1mpjFtn3ktU1@mid.individual.net> on Thu, 16 Nov 2006 07:39:26 +0800: > For the daytime: when I lived in Meekatharra, which is more or less in > the desert, 40° was quite comfortable and yet I can remember being in > Sydney with only 30° when the humidity was almost unbearable. I never > understand why people want to retire to places like Florida or > Queensland - I could have endured climates like that when I was younger, > but the thought of that kind of weather in old age is frightening. I feel just the same. I spent three years of my early twenties within a few degrees of the equator and revelled in it. I couldn't face it now. SignatureNick Spalding > For the daytime: when I lived in Meekatharra, which is more or less in > the desert, 40° was quite comfortable and yet I can remember being in > Sydney with only 30° when the humidity was almost unbearable. I never > understand why people want to retire to places like Florida or > Queensland - I could have endured climates like that when I was younger, > but the thought of that kind of weather in old age is frightening. I much prefer being cold to being hot and was surprised that I had no difficulty with a temperature of 104 on a visit to Tucson where we did lots of walking. We flew from there to Washington where it was more than 10 degrees cooler and I was completely wiped out the minute I stepped outside. In old age I think that any extremes can be hard to cope with. We haven't had a hard winter in the UK for quite a long time - brief cold spells but nothing like the sustained snow and ice I remember from my youth. I think that most of my elderly friends and family would find a really bad winter very tough now, even though they grew up in the days of coal fires and no heating in bedrooms. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > In old age I think that any extremes can be hard to cope with. We > haven't had a hard winter in the UK for quite a long time - brief cold > spells but nothing like the sustained snow and ice I remember from my > youth. I think that most of my elderly friends and family would find a > really bad winter very tough now, even though they grew up in the days > of coal fires and no heating in bedrooms. And in the morning there would be ice on the inside of the single- glazed, metal-framed windows ("You can't get the wood, you know"). During the day the ice would usually melt and form pools on the window sill, which we mopped up on returning from school. SignatureDavid ===== >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >During the day the ice would usually melt and form pools on the >window sill, which we mopped up on returning from school. Window sills? Lookshreh! SignatureMillicent Tendency (TEFKATHE) >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >During the day the ice would usually melt and form pools on the >window sill, which we mopped up on returning from school. Not to mention frost on the carpet. (Carpets? we used to ...) Mike Page Mike Page <mikeorang.page@ntlworld.com> had it: > >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > (Carpets? we used to ...) Carpets? We had some rugs, I think. What we found on the carpets in the morning was slug (or possibly snail) trails. SignatureDavid ===== >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >During the day the ice would usually melt and form pools on the >window sill, which we mopped up on returning from school. Mum used to keep dishcloths on the windowsills to prevent the pools forming in the first place. Having to collect and wring out the cold and sodden cloths was not my favourite task. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > I much prefer being cold to being hot and was surprised that I had no > difficulty with a temperature of 104 on a visit to Tucson where we did > lots of walking. We flew from there to Washington where it was more than > 10 degrees cooler and I was completely wiped out the minute I stepped > outside. It's not the heat -- it's the humidity, as they say. SignatureBuckwheat Soba >> I much prefer being cold to being hot and was surprised that I had no >> difficulty with a temperature of 104 on a visit to Tucson where we [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It's not the heat -- it's the humidity, as they say. My dad's joke, as he heard it in the bar: "It's not the heat, it's the humanity". >>> I much prefer being cold to being hot and was surprised that I had no >>> difficulty with a temperature of 104 on a visit to Tucson where we [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >My dad's joke, as he heard it in the bar: "It's not the heat, it's the >humanity". I like it. I hope, if I use it, I won't be corrected. SignatureCharles Riggs Charles Riggs filted: >>My dad's joke, as he heard it in the bar: "It's not the heat, it's the >>humanity". >> >I like it. I hope, if I use it, I won't be corrected. It's not the Heep, it's the humility....r Signature"Keep your eye on the Bishop. I want to know when he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely. >Charles Riggs filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >It's not the Heep, it's the humility....r <applause> SignatureBrad Germolene >In old age I think that any extremes can be hard to cope with. We >haven't had a hard winter in the UK for quite a long time - brief cold >spells but nothing like the sustained snow and ice I remember from my >youth. I think that most of my elderly friends and family would find a >really bad winter very tough now, even though they grew up in the days >of coal fires and no heating in bedrooms. <Treading delicately on thin and slippery ice> I wonder what you classify as elderly. With lifespans having increased in the years since your youth we may not be comparing like with like. As a wild generalisation I'd suggest that warm winter clothing is not always as warm as it used to be WIWAL. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > <Treading delicately on thin and slippery ice> > > I wonder what you classify as elderly. With lifespans having > increased in the years since your youth we may not be comparing like > with like. I wonder if the meaning of 'elderly' is changing. I was vaguely surprised recently to see a man ten years my junior described in a newspaper report as 'elderly'. I wouldn't call myself 'elderly', I think 'old' is a better description, but just what is the difference? SignatureAlec McKenzie usenet@<surname>.me.uk >><Treading delicately on thin and slippery ice> >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I wouldn't call myself 'elderly', I think 'old' is a better > description, but just what is the difference? I reckon that "old" is always at least fifteen years beyond your own age. At fifteen, I thought anyone over thirty was old. I am clinging to the idea that I am still middle-aged but at some time towards the end of the next decade I may have to face up to being elderly, even though - like my mother who is eighty-five - I'm permanently seventeen inside. Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little less brutal. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) > Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little > less brutal. I have the opposite impression. To me, "old" is a bald statement of fact, and can be taken whichever way one wishes. I am old by virtue of being older than the population average, but I am young compared to those 30 years old than me. "Elderly" seems to carry more emotional baggage. When I hear "elderly", I also hear echoes of "decrepit". SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > > Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little > > less brutal. > I have the opposite impression. To me, "old" is a bald statement of > fact, and can be taken whichever way one wishes. I am old by virtue of > being older than the population average, but I am young compared to > those 30 years old than me. I, too, am older than the population average, but I'm young compared to how old those thirty years older than me would be if any of them were still alive. > "Elderly" seems to carry more emotional baggage. When I hear "elderly", > I also hear echoes of "decrepit". Also "senile". SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA I've been young and I've been old; young is better. -- Woody Wordpecker (Paraphrasing Sophie Tucker) >> Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little >> less brutal. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >"Elderly" seems to carry more emotional baggage. When I hear "elderly", >I also hear echoes of "decrepit". Yes, I have much the same reaction. I shan't start describing myself as "elderly" until I'm at least at the bath-chair stage. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little >> less brutal. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >"Elderly" seems to carry more emotional baggage. When I hear "elderly", >I also hear echoes of "decrepit". My observation in England, when I was young, was that people passed from being "middle-aged" to being "old". This changed some decades ago when "elderly" crept in. I understood that it was intended to refer to an intermediate stage: middle-aged, elderly, old. However, its usage and connotations have changed since then. SOED (3rd Edition printed 1968) defines: elderly. 1611 1. Somewhat old, verging on old age. 2. Of or pertaining to an elderly person 1674. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>><Treading delicately on thin and slippery ice> >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Elderly and old certainly overlap but elderly is perhaps a little less >brutal. I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? As man gradually lives to an older age by aid of medical advances, middle-age will slowing creep up, but not nearly fast enough to matter, English usage-wise and otherwise, to the living. Off topic, but related to age: For argument's sake, put aside birth mortality and deaths from childhood diseases, they only confuse the statistics. If living a very long life is of paramount importance, a parent might plan to put off the start of life for her offspring, the freezing of this or that being one of several possibilities, 10000 years or so. But as things are going on this particular planet, quality of life will probably be the more important consideration. Now may be the best time, the options being admittedly dodgy. History may prove my year of 1945, as years are currently reckoned in western civilization, to be a pretty good starting point, barring escape by much-improved space transportation than currently available. I still pray, in the atheist sense, that, sooner of later, Earthman will have opportunities to ruin or improve additional planets, perhaps terraforming one in our own solar system before we move on. SignatureCharles Riggs >I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly >not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? I am greatly impressed with Ireland's health care system. They have evidently discovered a way to reverse the aging process. When you went into hospital, you were about my age. Now you are about my son's age. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL >>I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly >>not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > went into hospital, you were about my age. Now you are about my son's > age. Tony, you snipped badly there - Charles wrote the lines you appear to have attributed to me. And in the part that I *did* write, which you have snipped, I observed that I was 17 inside - I assume that this is the part to which Charles was responding and that he stopped at 37. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly >>>not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >have snipped, I observed that I was 17 inside - I assume that this is >the part to which Charles was responding and that he stopped at 37. Hmm. I had to read Charles's post twice. The first time I blinked because I'd thought, like Tony, that Charles was older than 37. The second time I substituted a notional colon for the first comma, and came out with the interpretation that Charles equates middle-aged with being about 37, which made more sense (apart from being too young). Now I've read it a third time, but the idea that Charles is 37 inside fails to leap out at me. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>>I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly >>>>not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Now I've read it a third time, but the idea that Charles is 37 inside > fails to leap out at me. YCBR. I only read (BCE: redd) each post once. If I re-read things, I can't keep up... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>I'm old, middle-aged, in the strict sense, being around 37 and elderly >>>not being in my working vocabulary. For elderly is a PC word, innit? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >have snipped, I observed that I was 17 inside - I assume that this is >the part to which Charles was responding and that he stopped at 37. Ahh...frankly, I wasn't paying much attention. Charles no longer rates careful reading on my part since he has become so mild and docile of late. I much preferred the irascible Charles. I was under no impression that you were ever under the care of Ireland's health care system. I have never tried to pin-point your age, and would not have questioned it had you placed it at 37. If I would have commented at all, I would have congratulated you for accomplishing so much in such a short span. obAue: I do understand that "would have" is considered quite unacceptable by some. However, that's my normal usage and I refuse to dress up for the occasion. SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL Tony Cooper wrote, in part: > If I would have commented at all, I would have congratulated you for > accomplishing so much in such a short span. > > obAue: I do understand that "would have" is considered quite > unacceptable by some. However, that's my normal usage and I refuse to > dress up for the occasion. "Would have" is fine, except when used as you used it. Once you get an "if" in there, the condition changes. Had I written the sentence, it would have begun with: "Had I commented at all..." or "If I had commented at all..." Your version, however, is ubiquitous* these days. *Someone -- Robert Benchley, I think, in the Algonquin Round Table days -- once gave an example of the word's usage by starting off with something about an Indian chief and his son. The ending line was "You big; quit us." SignatureMaria Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. There's only one 'n' in my email address, and it's not in my first name. >><Treading delicately on thin and slippery ice> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > surprised recently to see a man ten years my junior described in > a newspaper report as 'elderly'. My doctor - the one I've been going to for 21 years, tells me he's retiring at Xmas at age 65, and I'm older than that. "Elderly" is perhaps a state of mind: I'm convinced that some of the people I was at school with were already middle-aged in outlook. Then there are those, even older than I am, who pretend to be in their 20s, which I think is just as unappealing. What I notice most is in my Morris dancing group, where nearly all of us are now grey-haired and/or bald. SignatureRob Bannister > In old age I think that any extremes can be hard to cope with. We > haven't had a hard winter in the UK for quite a long time - brief cold > spells but nothing like the sustained snow and ice I remember from my > youth. I think that most of my elderly friends and family would find a > really bad winter very tough now, even though they grew up in the days > of coal fires and no heating in bedrooms. Precisely. I remember the winters of the 40s and early 60s in England, and I'll be happy if the only snow I ever see again is on Christmas cards; visits to the family in the Midlands brings memories of damp, cold, clammy sheets. As you say, it's the range of weather that's hardest to take. That's one reason I could never live in inland North America, or Australia for that matter. SignatureRob Bannister > As you say, it's the range of weather that's hardest to take. That's > one reason I could never live in inland North America, or Australia > for that matter. I presume you meant "[inland] Australia" there, but that's not the way I read it, causing me to wonder what someone who could never live in Australia was doing posting from a .au address. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |This gubblick contains many 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |nonsklarkish English flutzpahs, but Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the overall pluggandisp can be |glorked from context. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | (650)857-7572 | David Moser http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>As you say, it's the range of weather that's hardest to take. That's >>one reason I could never live in inland North America, or Australia [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I read it, causing me to wonder what someone who could never live in > Australia was doing posting from a .au address. Curses! I try to be careful when posting on aue, but that was, indeed, a slip. I think what made it worse was the comma, which I inserted later. SignatureRob Bannister >> Incidentally, and not limited to Ireland: Instead of "the Church," I would >> say "maniacal religious fanaticism." Instead of "drink," I would say [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >That's frightfully subjective. I actually dread British summers >because of the heat and humidity. I dread all Irish seasons save the one we're now experiencing. It might be reason enough for me to be back in Bangor, Maine if medical expenses in the US weren't so damn high. >Any temperature above 22°C >(72°F) is a trial ... my ideal is around 18°C (64°F) but only if >the humidity is low. As for the USA, well, Anchorage might do. > >Philip Eden As our planet warms, people may increasingly tend to agree with you; I already do. SignatureCharles Riggs > I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang > term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words > like "muff, minge and pussy". They'd never appear in a jingle or theme > for a program, but in the just-axed Glasshouse, at least 2 of these > appeared last night. But "crutch" for both males and females is heard occasionally. SignatureRob Bannister > > I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang > > term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But "crutch" for both males and females is heard occasionally. Hmmm "crotch" I believe. Crutches are things we lean on for support. TOF >>>I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang >>>term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Crutches are things we lean on for support. Agreed, but I've heard them used interchangeably for the between-legs part, including a number of jokes relying on the double meaning of crutch. SignatureRob Bannister >> I was wondering, apropos of the previous conversation, where a slang >> term for vulva would be used on Australian TV. I'm thinking of words [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >But "crutch" for both males and females is heard occasionally. Is "crutch/crotch" ever used to refer to the actual bits and bobs , though? I only ever hear it used to refer to (a) where the legs join in trousers, (b) where people get kicked, or (c) what hurts if you go horseriding or fall off a bicycle saddle onto the crossbar. Have you ever heard "hairy/shaved crutch", "hot, moist crutch" or other sexual rather than purely anatomical uses (i.e. where the legs join at the front -- roughly the lower-limb equivalent of "armpit")? SignatureRoss Howard >> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >"Fanny" in the US is a synonym for "butt", unlike in Australia where it >means "vagina". BrE too. "Verger, is that Fanny Green?" "No, Vicar - that's just the light from the stained-glass windows..." Cheers - Ian The Ian Noble entity posted thusly: >>> Is it bad to call some one an /arse/? :) >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >"Verger, is that Fanny Green?" >"No, Vicar - that's just the light from the stained-glass windows..." At a nudist resort: "Isn't that Dick Brown?" "Well yes. It's been out in the sun all summer." |
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