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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Last Year and This Year in AmE Pronounciation
Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? Not in mine, but it wouldn't surprise me if you do. /sj/ often goes to /Sj/ or just /S/, as in "issue" and "tissue". And possibly "assure". > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". Same deal. That one you might even hear from me, from time to time, although it isn't phonemic.  SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Whatever it is that the government 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |does, sensible Americans would prefer Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that the government do it to somebody |else. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Same deal. That one you might even hear from me, from time to time, > although it isn't phonemic. Thank you, Evan.Ishould've been more specific: AmE pronounciation from the greater NY area. Today I was listening to the news on a few channels and it was for the first time I noticed Kathie Courick (sp?) talking about "thi sheer Haloween"; then I noticed all the other newspeople pronouncing the /Sj/ >channels and it was for the first time I noticed Kathie Courick (sp?) >talking about "thi sheer Haloween"; then I noticed all the other >newspeople pronouncing the /Sj/ Remember that none of the national newscasters have stereotypically "New York" accents. Couric is a native of the D.C. area and went to UVa; Brian Williams is from upstate New York but grew up in Monmouth County, New Jersey, before going to college in D.C.; Charlie Gibson is originally from Evanston, Ill. (a Chicago suburb) but spent his teenage years in D.C. and went to Princeton. I don't even know who is on CNN any more.[1] Jim Lehrer is a Kansan, but grew up in Texas and went to college in Missouri. I don't watch FNC or the Microsoft channel so I have no idea who their news anchors are. Before them, as is well known, Brokaw is from Yankton, S.D.; Rather and Schieffer are both Texans (although Rather is South and Schieffer is North). Woodruff is from Michigan and Vargas is from suburban New Jersey; Jennings was a Canadian and grew up in Ottawa. All three of the former "big three" anchors had very distinctive accents and verbal mannerisms. -GAWollman [1] I still miss Lynne Russell; apparently she is in Toronto and doing part-time work now for CBC Newsworld. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness ... } Remember that none of the national newscasters have stereotypically } "New York" accents. ... Al Roker is from St. Albans, was baptized in the same church I was baptized in, and went to the same college my parents and sister went to. He speaks Mainland English like other people wish they did. Signaturerjv > ... > } Remember that none of the national newscasters have stereotypically [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Al Roker is from St. Albans, was baptized in the same church I was > baptized in, and went to the same college my parents and sister went to. Right. Al Roker speaks something very close to Postwar New York Prestige Standard, which happens also to be my own accent. If he ever makes it to the national stage, watch out for Andy Siff (currently on WNBC). He was a high school (and college) classmate of mine, and his accent, too, is Postwar New York Prestige Standard (though I sense he's GenAmized it a fair amount). SignatureBuckwheat Soba > Remember that none of the national newscasters have stereotypically > "New York" accents. Couric is a native of the D.C. area and went to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > on CNN any more.[1] Jim Lehrer is a Kansan, but grew up in Texas and > went to college in Missouri. Of the ones you mention that I know from, Jim Lehrer has the strongest regional-sounding accent to me (to me it sounds like a slight Southern drawl). > Before them, as is well known, Brokaw is from Yankton, S.D.; Rather > and Schieffer are both Texans (although Rather is South and Schieffer > is North). Woodruff is from Michigan and Vargas is from suburban New > Jersey; Jennings was a Canadian and grew up in Ottawa. All three > of the former "big three" anchors had very distinctive accents and > verbal mannerisms. With, I'd say, Jennings having had the strongest regional-sounding accent (noticeably Canadian, though a highly-refined and, I suspect, semi-Americanized variety). SignatureBuckwheat Soba > Thank you, Evan.Ishould've been more specific: AmE pronounciation from > the greater NY area. Today I was listening to the news on a few > channels and it was for the first time I noticed Kathie Courick (sp?) > talking about "thi sheer Haloween"; then I noticed all the other > newspeople pronouncing the /Sj/ Couric is from northern Virginia, I believe. SignatureBuckwheat Soba It is correct North American pronunciation to link words. Certain phonemes when combined produce a new sound. It is common that when the final of one word and the initial of the following word are a pair that are commonly used in combination to produce yet another phoneme, that this sound is used in the linking. In such as case it is standard pronunciation to use either the individual phonemic sounds or the combined phonemic sound. In the examples you give above; however, the first link would result in an elongated vowel glide, and it is the glide moving from /t/ to the glide /y/ whihc moves through the articulation (position) of the affricate that you recognize as (sh) that you are hearing. This is standard, yet if articulated sloppily or with a regional dialect the affricate is exaggerated and lengthened, which is simple dialectical or sloppy. Again, it is standard when produced correctly. > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? > > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". >It is correct North American pronunciation to link words. Certain >phonemes when combined produce a new sound. It is common that when the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". As in "las tcheer" Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" "Jeet jet? "No. Jew? ************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" > >"Jeet jet? You know, it's been maybe twenty years since I first read about this, and I've still never encountered anyone who actually speaks that way. *Where* are people alleged to say this? -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > this, and I've still never encountered anyone who actually speaks > that way. *Where* are people alleged to say this? The "jet" may be uncommon, but "jeet" sounds perfectly normal to me. This presumably extends to the UK, based on "D'yer Maker" (which I didn't get until I was in my thirties, but more probably because of the "er"). SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Whatever it is that the government 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |does, sensible Americans would prefer Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that the government do it to somebody |else. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > >>Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > didn't get until I was in my thirties, but more probably because of > the "er"). Man, am I horribly ashamed to admit I didn't get it until just now. -=Eric, hiding his head in embarrassment Unfortunately many rural areas of the deep south have a horrible elongated and emphasized affricate sound between adn in and many words where it woudl not normally be. > >Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape > of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > Unfortunately many rural areas of the deep south have a horrible > elongated and emphasized affricate sound between adn in and many words > where it woudl not normally be. I think your fingers need to be resynchronized. Or something. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ >>Consider that famous invitiation to get something edible" >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >and I've still never encountered anyone who actually speaks that way. >*Where* are people alleged to say this? I haven't a clue. "Jeet yet?", on the other hand, is common in America. SignatureCharles Riggs A note on newscasters: regardless or their origins they all take required courses in which the become proficient speakers of standard North American English, which most closely approximates the mid-western regional pronunciation. Of course we are all human, and as such, their speech is not always perfect. > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? > > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". >> Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? >> >> I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". > A note on newscasters: regardless or their origins they all take > required courses in which the become proficient speakers of standard > North American English, which most closely approximates the > mid-western regional pronunciation. Of course we are all human, and > as such, their speech is not always perfect. No-one else has mentioned this but someone should. Please don't top-post. Type your response under the material you are responding to. This acts as a reminder to delete any material you aren't responding to, and makes it far easier for readers to follow the 'conversation'. Thanks. > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? Not if I'm speaking. > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". Not if I'm speaking. > > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? > Not if I'm speaking. > > > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". > > Not if I'm speaking. Then what about "next year"? > Do I hear a "sh" in "this year"? > > I'm sure I can hear a "tch" in "last year". cf. "tune" AmE = "toon" RP BrE = "t'yoon" Estuary BrE = "choon" Mike M |
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