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Bringing Dick Chambers up to date.

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Dick Chambers - 01 Nov 2006 19:07 GMT
I thank eveybody who contributed to the short "Poppers" thread. By your
help, I now understand what poppers are. There are a few other words that
have arrived on the scene recently, and I thought it would be a good idea to
use this opportunity to bring myself back into the 21st century by asking
what they actually mean.

Before I tell you what I want to learn about, I would like to suggest that
other contributors to aue might also like to use this thread to bring
themselves up to date with the new words that are bugging them.

My own questions, for the present, are:-

1.  What is (an) IPOD? What does it do? What do the letters stand for?

2.  What, precisely, does the verb "download" mean. Is this merely to call
up a website and view it? Or does one have to permanently store the contents
of the website on the hard disc before one could could be said to have
"downloaded" it. This always puzzles me every time there is an item on the
news about the arrest of another internet paedophile saddie, who has
"downloaded"  4,527 pictures of abused children.

3.  What is the difference between a worm and a trojan? What other types of
virus are there?

I shall add to this list as I think of new items. As I said above, I invite
other readers to do the same.

Richard Chambers        Leeds   UK.
the Omrud - 01 Nov 2006 19:20 GMT
Dick Chambers <richard.chambers7@ntlworld.com> had it:

> I thank eveybody who contributed to the short "Poppers" thread. By your
> help, I now understand what poppers are. There are a few other words that
> have arrived on the scene recently,

Recently?  Poppers have been around for decades.

> and I thought it would be a good idea to
> use this opportunity to bring myself back into the 21st century by asking
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> 1.  What is (an) IPOD? What does it do? What do the letters stand for?

An MP3 player made by Apple.  It's a brand name, written iPod but I
don't think it's an acronym.  It has given rise to the terms
"podcasting" and "podcast" which apply even where no iPod is
involved.

MP3, and others including WMA and Ogg Vorbis, are algorithms for
compressing audio and video so that they are still at acceptable
quality but take up far less space.  The iPod is an audio or video
device which plays these files from an internal hard disk or solid
state memory, usually through headphones, with a small screen for
videos.  This is what I have:
http://www.advancedmp3players.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?
products_id=784
http://tinyurl.com/en2e5
it has a 20 Gb hard drive.  I won't buy iPods because of the
proprietary way in which they tie you into their own software.  My
device will work with any PC or Mac and requires no special transfer
software.

Signature

David
=====

Buckwheat Soba - 01 Nov 2006 18:55 GMT
> Dick Chambers <richard.chambers7@ntlworld.com> had it:
>>
>> 1.  What is (an) IPOD? What does it do? What do the letters stand for?
>
> An MP3 player made by Apple.  It's a brand name, written iPod but I
> don't think it's an acronym.

Nor do I. I do think that the "i" is supposed to be taken from "Internet"
(cf. "iMac"), and I think the "pod" is due to the shape of the device, or
its original versions.

> I won't buy iPods because of the
> proprietary way in which they tie you into their own software.

Good man.  

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

Charles Riggs - 02 Nov 2006 17:20 GMT
>> Dick Chambers <richard.chambers7@ntlworld.com> had it:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Good man.  

Indeed. Apple tries to tie users to both their hardware and their
software. The reverse was the technical beauty, and the business
failing, of the IBM PCs.
Signature

Charles Riggs

Evan Kirshenbaum - 01 Nov 2006 19:30 GMT
> MP3, and others including WMA and Ogg Vorbis, are algorithms for
> compressing audio and video so that they are still at acceptable
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> device will work with any PC or Mac and requires no special transfer
> software.

I held off for a long time, but finally became convinced that this
wasn't actually true.  Aside from a single required use of iTunes when
you start up, you can completely disregard their software for transfer
(or any other reason).  It mounts as a disk, and I use Winamp to
manage my music and a backup program to give me an encrypted backup of
my more important files.  (I've gotten sufficiently frustrated with
the fact that I can't find synchronizing software that does things the
way I want that I'm currently looking into writing my own.  It doesn't
look difficult.)

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   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |to watch others repeat it.
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the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 09:45 GMT
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:

> I held off for a long time, but finally became convinced that this
> wasn't actually true.  Aside from a single required use of iTunes when
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> way I want that I'm currently looking into writing my own.  It doesn't
> look difficult.)

I nearly started to write my own as well, but I have discovered two
"near enough" solutions: Microsoft Synch Toy, and Allway Synch
(shareware with free use for low volume work).  And for a backup
solution with encryption, Polder Backup.

I also eschew iPods partly on the basis that they are too trendy.

Signature

David
=====

Evan Kirshenbaum - 02 Nov 2006 16:50 GMT
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> (shareware with free use for low volume work).  And for a backup
> solution with encryption, Polder Backup.

As near as I can tell, those just synchronize at the folder level.
That's easy.  The tricky parts are (1) correctly modifying the
iTunesDB file so that the iPod sees the files as music that can be
played and (2) picking the tracks to move over and the tracks to
remove when there is more on my computer than I have room for on my
iPod.  It's that last that's causing me to consider writing my own.

> I also eschew iPods partly on the basis that they are too trendy.

Just as the fact that you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to
get you, the fact that something's trendy doesn't mean that it isn't
really nice to have.  I've only had mine since August, but I find I
use it a lot.

One thing that made me decide to go with an iPod rather than another
type of MP3 player was that I could get an adaptor that let me plug it
into our car's stereo system for real (e.g., line level input so that
the volume control is on the stereo, pause and next track buttons
work) rather than using one of those FM transmitters or the like,
which don't work very well.  It's quite nice having a full range of
albums to choose from when in the car.  

Signature

Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
   HP Laboratories                    |Of course, over the first 10^-10
   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |seconds and 10^-30 cubic
   Palo Alto, CA  94304               |centimeters it averages out to
                                      |zero, but when you look in
   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com             |detail....
   (650)857-7572                      |            Philip Morrison

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the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 19:47 GMT
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:

> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> remove when there is more on my computer than I have room for on my
> iPod.  It's that last that's causing me to consider writing my own.

(1) isn't necessary on my Archos - you copy the files across and it
indexes them based on the tags.  I haven't hit (2) yet as I have 20
Gb, but I suppose it will come along.

> > I also eschew iPods partly on the basis that they are too trendy.
>
> Just as the fact that you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to
> get you, the fact that something's trendy doesn't mean that it isn't
> really nice to have.  I've only had mine since August, but I find I
> use it a lot.

Oh sure, I just want to retain my individuality.

> One thing that made me decide to go with an iPod rather than another
> type of MP3 player was that I could get an adaptor that let me plug it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> which don't work very well.  It's quite nice having a full range of
> albums to choose from when in the car.  

That might have given me some cause for consideration, but my car
doesn't have any type of input.  I have got an FM transmitter - they
are still illegal in the UK but the word is that they will be
legalised by January.

Signature

David
=====

Evan Kirshenbaum - 02 Nov 2006 21:50 GMT
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> That might have given me some cause for consideration, but my car
> doesn't have any type of input.

You might be surprised.  If there was an option to have a CD changer
in the trunk, the stereo probably has a jack in the back that you can
plug into.  That's what the iPod2car unit I installed does.  It
pretends to be a CD changer.

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Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
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   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |sing; it wastes your time and
   Palo Alto, CA  94304               |annoys the pig.
                                      |              Robert Heinlein
   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
   (650)857-7572

   http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 23:46 GMT
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:

> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> plug into.  That's what the iPod2car unit I installed does.  It
> pretends to be a CD changer.

Nope; the radio, sat nav and CD changer is a combined unit in the
dashboard.

Signature

David
=====

Evan Kirshenbaum - 02 Nov 2006 21:57 GMT
> Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> indexes them based on the tags.  I haven't hit (2) yet as I have 20
> Gb, but I suppose it will come along.

There's something to be said for both approaches.  On the one hand,
it's nice that it does the indexing itself.  On the other hand, that
means that it needs to notice new files and extract the tags, which
could be expensive if a lot is moved at once, whereas with the index
file approach, it just has to read in one 5MB file that has (or
purports to have) all of the information it needs.

Not, of course, that Apple publishes the specification of that file,
but it's been sufficiently reverse engineered that writing
synchronizers that manage it is pretty straightforward.

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Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
   HP Laboratories                    |On a scale of one to ten...
   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |it sucked.
   Palo Alto, CA  94304

   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
   (650)857-7572

   http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 23:48 GMT
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:

> > Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> file approach, it just has to read in one 5MB file that has (or
> purports to have) all of the information it needs.

I agree, but they seem to have cracked it - it takes less than a
minute to index 2000 files, and it's bright enough only to index new
files (it waits until you pull out the USB cord) which usually takes
only five seconds or so.

Signature

David
=====

R H Draney - 02 Nov 2006 16:54 GMT
the Omrud filted:

>I also eschew iPods partly on the basis that they are too trendy.

The battle call of the neo-Luddite:  "I don't like them because everybody else
has one"....r

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"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 19:49 GMT
R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> had it:

> the Omrud filted:
> >
> >I also eschew iPods partly on the basis that they are too trendy.
>
> The battle call of the neo-Luddite:  "I don't like them because everybody else
> has one"....r

I am surely no form of Luddite, being in fact a gadget freak with
nerdy tendencies and a house and garage full of computers.  It's the
brand I object to.

Signature

David
=====

Eric Schwartz - 02 Nov 2006 01:36 GMT
> I won't buy iPods because of the proprietary way in which they tie
> you into their own software.  My device will work with any PC or Mac
> and requires no special transfer software.

As will my iPod.  Of course, you'll have to install Linux on that PC
or Mac first, but since I'd probably do that anyway, no great loss.

-=Eric
Evan Kirshenbaum - 02 Nov 2006 16:51 GMT
>> I won't buy iPods because of the proprietary way in which they tie
>> you into their own software.  My device will work with any PC or Mac
>> and requires no special transfer software.
>
> As will my iPod.  Of course, you'll have to install Linux on that PC
> or Mac first, but since I'd probably do that anyway, no great loss.

Actually, you don't.  I use Winamp

   http://www.winamp.com/

which is free and which is what I had been using to manage my music
files before I got my iPod.  It can do it by itself, but I also use a
plug-in

   http://www.mlipod.com/

that is a bit nicer.  I see that there's a new minor version that
promises "a lot of improvements of the sync process", so I should
probably check that out before writing my own synchronizer, although
it doesn't look tremendously difficult.

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   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com             |  named Leland did drop dead
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Sara Lorimer - 02 Nov 2006 19:51 GMT
> My
> device will work with any PC or Mac and requires no special transfer
> software.

I don't know if my iPod works on any other platforms (if that's the
right word), because I've never hooked it up to any computer other than
my own. Why would I? What am I missing?

Signature

SML

the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 20:03 GMT
Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it:

> > My
> > device will work with any PC or Mac and requires no special transfer
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> right word), because I've never hooked it up to any computer other than
> my own. Why would I? What am I missing?

Some MP3 players are just external drives as far as the PC or Mac is
concerned.  I can plug mine into any PC and use it like a flash/thumb
drive.

Signature

David
=====

Sara Lorimer - 02 Nov 2006 20:19 GMT
> Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> concerned.  I can plug mine into any PC and use it like a flash/thumb
> drive.

I see. That isn't something I would need to do, as far as I can tell --
I work on just the one computer.

Signature

SML

the Omrud - 02 Nov 2006 21:05 GMT
Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it:

> > Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I see. That isn't something I would need to do, as far as I can tell --
> I work on just the one computer.

Good grief, how do you manage?  I've got six or seven in the house, a
dozen in the garage in various stages of repair, and around 30,000 at
work.

Signature

David
=====

Sara Lorimer - 02 Nov 2006 21:56 GMT
> Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> had it:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> dozen in the garage in various stages of repair, and around 30,000 at
> work.

Somehow we struggle along with just four in the house (and one on loan
to a friend). Poor little me...

Signature

SML

Garrett Wollman - 01 Nov 2006 19:23 GMT
>1.  What is (an) IPOD? What does it do? What do the letters stand for?

iPod is a trade name for Apple Computer's brand of portable music
player.  It does not stand for anything.

>2.  What, precisely, does the verb "download" mean.

Historically, to download was to copy, over a communications link, a
data file from a large computer to a smaller computer.  (In the
opposite direction the word would be "upload".)  Now, as with "log
on", the term has lost most vestiges of meaning.

>Is this merely to call up a website and view it? Or does one have to
>permanently store the contents of the website on the hard disc before
>one could could be said to have "downloaded" it.

In JournoE, either gloss is possible.

>3.  What is the difference between a worm and a trojan? What other types of
>virus are there?

Again, historic distinctions have been muddled by recent journalistic
sloppiness.  These are all instances of a category of software called
"malware".  A worm is an autonomous program which copies itself to
other systems; the first one to gain notoriety outside the computing
community was Robert Tappan Morris's back in the late 1980s.  Worms
require some sort of communications network to spread.  A virus, on
the other hand, is not autonomous: some sort of action on the part of
the user is required.  A trojan, more properly a Trojan horse, is a
program masquerading as something innocuous that actually causes
damage to a system.  Modern malware often incorporates elements of all
three of these: one program I had reason to investigate about five
years ago spread itself by sending a screen saver (i.e., a trojan) to
everyone in an infected user's address book, which of course depends
on the recipients opening the email to actually propagate (making it a
virus); it would also scan networks for known Windows vulnerabilities
and propagate autonomously (making it a worm).

(It was actually quite a clever implementation in a number of ways.)

-GAWollman

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Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

Evan Kirshenbaum - 01 Nov 2006 21:10 GMT
>>1.  What is (an) IPOD? What does it do? What do the letters stand for?
>
> iPod is a trade name for Apple Computer's brand of portable music
> player.  It does not stand for anything.

Although the "i" historically comes from "iMac", for which it stood
for "Internet".  As for the "pod",

   The iPod name was offered up by Vinnie Chieco, a freelance
   copywriter who lives in San Francisco. Chieco was recruited by
   Apple to be part of a small team tasked with helping figure out
   how to introduce the new player to the general public, not just
   computer geeks.

   During the process, Jobs had settled on the player's descriptive
   tag line -- "1,000 songs in your pocket" -- so the name was freed
   up from having to be descriptive. It didn't have to reference
   music or songs.

   While describing the player, Jobs constantly referred to Apple's
   digital hub strategy: The Mac is a hub, or central connection
   point, for a host of gadgets. This prompted Chieco to start
   thinking about hubs: objects that other things connect to.

   The ultimate hub, Chieco figured, would be a spaceship. You could
   leave the spaceship in a smaller vessel, a pod, but you'd have to
   return to the mother ship to refuel and get food. Then Chieco was
   shown a prototype iPod, with its stark white plastic front.

   "As soon as I saw the white iPod, I thought 2001," said
   Chieco. "Open the pod bay door, Hal!"

   Then it was just a matter of adding the "i" prefix, as in "iMac."

   Chieco declined to mention any of the alternative names that were
   considered. A source at Apple confirmed Chieco's story.

   Athol Foden, a naming expert and president of Brighter Naming of
   Mountain View, California, noted that Apple had already
   trademarked the iPod name for an internet kiosk, a project that
   never saw the light of day. On July 24, 2000, Apple registered the
   iPod name for "a public internet kiosk enclosure containing
   computer equipment," according to the filing.

   Chieco said the internet kiosk is probably a coincidence. He
   suggested that maybe another team at Apple registered the name for
   a different project, but because of the company's penchant for
   secrecy, his team wasn't aware what the other had done. And
   neither, apparently, was Steve Jobs. Chieco said neither Jobs --
   nor anyone else -- seemed aware that the company had already
   registered the iPod trademark.

   "The name 'iPod' makes much more sense for an internet kiosk,
   which is a pod for a human, than a music player," said Foden.

   "They discovered in their tool chest of registered names they had
   'iPod,'" he added. "If you think about the product, it doesn't
   really fit. But it doesn't matter. It's short and sweet."

   Foden said the name is a stroke of genius: It is simple, memorable
   and, crucially, it doesn't describe the device, so it can still be
   used as the technology evolves, even if the device's function
   changes. He noted the "i" prefix has a double meaning: It can mean
   "internet," as in "iMac," or it can denote the first person: "I,"
   as in me.

        http://tinyurl.com/whcs7
        <URL:http://www.wired.com/news/columns/cultofmac/
         0,71956-2.html?tw=wn_story_page_next2>

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Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
   HP Laboratories                    |Of course, over the first 10^-10
   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |seconds and 10^-30 cubic
   Palo Alto, CA  94304               |centimeters it averages out to
                                      |zero, but when you look in
   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com             |detail....
   (650)857-7572                      |            Philip Morrison

   http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

Eric Schwartz - 02 Nov 2006 01:49 GMT
> Worms require some sort of communications network to spread.

While I generally agree with you, I'm not sure this is necessarily so.
I'm thinking of a virus I heard of that will automatically copy itself
(along with some porn, to induce the user to open it and install the
virus) to a USB device when it's inserted into an infected computer.
It doesn't take a huge leap of imagination to extend that to
full-fledged worm status, where the worm is automatically installed to
any computer the device is plugged into.

I suppose in that case you could argue the communications network is
'sneakernet'[0], but that might be stretching it a bit even for some
technically-inclined readers.

-=Eric

[0] A common pun on the word 'ethernet', which describes a set of
   computer networking technologies.  'Sneakernet' uses sneakers,
   i.e., people walking around, to move information from one point to
   another.  By analogy, 'ethernet' should use 'ether', and arguably
   with the advent of the 802.11 family of standards, it does[1].

[1] Here's a quote from the memo where Bob Metcalfe describes how he
   coined the name 'ethernet':

         The word ether came from lumeniferous ether -- the
         omnipresent passive medium once theorized to carry
         electromagnetic waves through space, in particular light
         from the Sun to the Earth.  Around the time of Einstein's
         Theory of Relativity, the light-bearing ether was proven not
         to exist.  So, looking to name our LAN's omnipresent passive
         medium, then a coaxial cable, which would propagate
         electromagnetic waves, namely data packets, I chose to
         recycle ether.  Hence, Ethernet.
Garrett Wollman - 02 Nov 2006 20:52 GMT
>> Worms require some sort of communications network to spread.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>full-fledged worm status, where the worm is automatically installed to
>any computer the device is plugged into.

That's pretty much the definition of the classic MacOS floppy virus.
Back in the days of yore (we're talking System 5 here), Macintosh
disks could contain code resources which were automatically loaded and
executed whenever the disk was inserted.  (Similar in concept to the
evil Windows AUTORUN.INI, only even more automated and with no means
of disablement.)  A common sort of virus on the Mac at that time would
start from an infected floppy, make itself permanently resident, and
then copy itself to every disk inserted into the machine.  This
doesn't meet the definition of a worm because the worm can only spread
when user inserts an uninfected disk into an infected machine -- it's
not autonomous.

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

Don Phillipson - 01 Nov 2006 19:32 GMT
> 2.  What, precisely, does the verb "download" mean. Is this merely to call
> up a website and view it? Or does one have to permanently store the contents
> of the website on the hard disc before one could could be said to have
> "downloaded" it. This always puzzles me every time there is an item on the
> news about the arrest of another internet paedophile saddie, who has
> "downloaded"  4,527 pictures of abused children.

Upload and Download were coined when the most
common computers were "main frames" with multiple
terminals.  When you sent a file from your terminal to
the main frame (modern server) you uploaded it: ad
when you had a file sent to you you downloaded it.

This usage was extended to the Interet.  You at your
standalone home PC upload files to the Internet (or
to another computer) and download material (say
pirated music or dirty pictures) to your private collection.

> 3.  What is the difference between a worm and a trojan? What other types of
> virus are there?

Definitions now have grown fuzzy because new or
modern "malware" often combines two or more
harmful functions.   Originally a Trojan was a
programme disguised as something else (cf. the
Trojan Horse, a vehicle for non-apparent harm.)
A worm was a programme that would take up
residence in your computer, perhaps remain
dormant for a period, and then start causing
damage (like a parasite eating its host.)

Wikipedia and computer  magazines aside,
vendors of antivirus software have more information
than any user could possibly want.

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Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Robert Bannister - 02 Nov 2006 01:25 GMT
> This usage was extended to the Interet.  You at your
> standalone home PC upload files to the Internet (or
> to another computer) and download material (say
> pirated music or dirty pictures) to your private collection.

I suspect that where it becomes confusing for some is when "downloading"
is used for receiving an html image on one's screen. Obviously, it is
downloading in a way, but it's not quite the same thing as saving text
or images to one's disk.

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Rob Bannister

R H Draney - 02 Nov 2006 03:30 GMT
Robert Bannister filted:

>> This usage was extended to the Interet.  You at your
>> standalone home PC upload files to the Internet (or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>downloading in a way, but it's not quite the same thing as saving text
>or images to one's disk.

But it's exactly the same thing...if you don't believe me, have a look through
your cache files....r

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"Keep your eye on the Bishop.  I want to know when
he makes his move", said the Inspector, obliquely.

dontbother - 02 Nov 2006 04:19 GMT
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> But it's exactly the same thing...if you don't believe me, have
> a look through your cache files....r

Functionally, yes, it's the same thing, but there isn't necessarily
any intent to download and keep a copy of the files cached by a
browser on one's HDD. And not only can one delete all cached browser
files whenever the browser is open, there are plenty of programs that
can be set to clean a browser's cache on shutdown or startup. That
lack of intent cuts no ice with the intellectual property police,
however, so I guess it doesn't cut any ice with the "religious
police" (a generic term taken from Islamic countries where the
religious police actively seek out sinners, e.g., women who drive,
women who don't cover their heads, women who talk to or shake hands
with men not related to them by blood or marriage, men and women who
wear religious symbols, etc.) either.

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Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Robert Bannister - 03 Nov 2006 00:58 GMT
> Robert Bannister filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> But it's exactly the same thing...if you don't believe me, have a look through
> your cache files....r

Hmm. I'm still not convinced it is exactly the same, at least from a
user's point of view. True, I currently have my cache set to 200 MB, but
that is a lot larger than the default, and anyway, many sites are set to
rearrange themselves every day, so that the page is read anew, rather
than from cache. I do know that a number of access problems can often be
fixed by erasing the cache.

Somehow, I've gone off track. What I mean is, from a user's point of
view downloading is saving something deliberately to a specific
location, whereas websites go to a place I rarely look at and are
overwritten regularly. So, if for example I view a video clip, I am
undoubtedly downloading something in an electronic sense to my computer,
but it's not quite the same as clicking "Save target as", "Save image
as" or similar.

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Rob Bannister

T.H. Entity - 02 Nov 2006 13:41 GMT
>> This usage was extended to the Interet.  You at your
>> standalone home PC upload files to the Internet (or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>downloading in a way, but it's not quite the same thing as saving text
>or images to one's disk.

Isn't that definition of downloading was what got Pete Townshend in
trouble (and ultimately got him off)?  IIRC, the supposed images that
he had "downloaded" and "stored" on his computer were actually, along
with lots of other junk, just pics that had been on websites --
including nasty unsolicited pop-ups from sites in former Soviet
republics (which can happen, er, or so I've been told) -- that he had
no idea were buried away in his never-cleaned IE cache.

This sort of thing reminds me of someone I know who was charged with
drug trafficking after the police found "13.5 kilos" of marijuana at
his house -- they weighed the plant pots and soil too.

Signature

Ross Howard

teddysnips@hotmail.com - 02 Nov 2006 13:08 GMT
[...]
> Definitions now have grown fuzzy because new or
> modern "malware" often combines two or more
> harmful functions.   Originally a Trojan was a
> programme disguised as something else

In BrE (at least my dialect of geek-speek) a computer program is spelt
"program".  TV, theatres, events etc. have "programmes".

Will.
Buckwheat Soba - 03 Nov 2006 00:31 GMT
> In BrE (at least my dialect of geek-speek) a computer program is spelt
> "program".  

Truly, that is no doubt the preference, though I have seen "[computer]
programme" in some BrE publications.

Signature

Buckwheat Soba

Peter Duncanson - 01 Nov 2006 21:21 GMT
>2.  What, precisely, does the verb "download" mean. Is this merely to call
>up a website and view it? Or does one have to permanently store the contents
>of the website on the hard disc before one could could be said to have
>"downloaded" it. This always puzzles me every time there is an item on the
>news about the arrest of another internet paedophile saddie, who has
>"downloaded"  4,527 pictures of abused children.

Definitions of computing terms can be found at FOLDOC:
http://foldoc.org/

This one of the dictionaries used by OneLook.com

In this case:
http://foldoc.org/?download

   download
   
   <jargon> To transfer data from one computer to another.
   Downloading usually refers to transfer from a larger "host"
   system (especially a server or mainframe) to a smaller "client"
   system, especially a microcomputer or specialised peripheral,
   and "upload" usually means from small to large.
   
   Others hold that, technically, download means "receive" and
   upload means "send", irrespective of the size of the systems
   involved.
   
   Note that in communications between ground and space,
   space-to-earth transmission is always "down" and the reverse
   "up", regardless of size. So far the in-space machines have
   invariably been smaller; thus the upload/download distinction
   has been reversed from its usual sense.

>3.  What is the difference between a worm and a trojan? What other types of
>virus are there?

Try FOLDOC, starting at:
http://foldoc.org/?query=virus

   virus
   
   <security> (By analogy with biological viruses, via SF) A
   program or piece of code written by a cracker that "infects" one
   or more other programs by embedding a copy of itself in them, so
   that they become Trojan horses. When these programs are
   executed, the embedded virus is executed too, thus propagating
   the "infection". This normally happens invisibly to the user.
   
   A virus has an "engine" - code that enables it to propagate and
   optionally a "payload" - what it does apart from propagating. It
   needs a "host" - the particular hardware and software
   environment on which it can run and a "trigger" - the event that
   starts it running.
   
   Unlike a worm, a virus cannot infect other computers without
   assistance. It is propagated by vectors such as humans trading
   programs with their friends (see SEX). The virus may do nothing
   but propagate itself and then allow the program to run normally.
   Usually, however, after propagating silently for a while, it
   starts doing things like writing "cute" messages on the terminal
   or playing strange tricks with the display (some viruses include
   display hacks). Viruses written by particularly antisocial
   crackers may do irreversible damage, like deleting files.
   See boot virus, phage. Compare back door.
       
http://foldoc.org/?query=back+door

   back door
   
   <security> (Or "trap door", "wormhole"). A hole in the security
   of a system deliberately left in place by designers or
   maintainers. The motivation for such holes is not always
   sinister; some operating systems, for example, come out of the
   box with privileged accounts intended for use by field service
   technicians or the vendor's maintenance programmers.
   See also iron box, cracker, worm, logic bomb.

http://foldoc.org/?query=worm

   worm
   
   <networking, security> (From "Tapeworm" in John Brunner's novel
   "The Shockwave Rider", via XEROX PARC) A program that propagates
   itself over a network, reproducing itself as it goes. Compare
   virus. Nowadays the term has negative connotations, as it is
   assumed that only crackers write worms.
   
   Perhaps the best-known example was the Great Worm.
   
   Compare Trojan horse.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

 
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