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UC - 02 Nov 2006 01:03 GMT
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm

"a) The split infinitive. In English, the infinitive form of a verb
often includes the word 'to', as in 'to go', 'to bring', 'to dance' and
so on. It is not generally considered acceptable to place another word
(it would usually be an adverb) between the two parts of the
infinitive. It is therefore wrong to say 'to boldly go': you could
write 'boldly to go', or 'to go boldly' instead. You should also avoid
splitting infinitives in sentences where the negative is used: Hamlet
says 'to be or not to be', rather than 'to be or to not be'."
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 02 Nov 2006 01:24 GMT
> http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> splitting infinitives in sentences where the negative is used: Hamlet
> says 'to be or not to be', rather than 'to be or to not be'."

Thank you.  That page (dated 1999) has by far the latest prohibition of
split infinitives that I know about.  (Speaking of which, it also says
ending a sentence with a preposition is "considered weak".)

Indeed it's a rich source of English-usage material.  The two biggest
surprises for me were that the author says "The government are" is
"strictly speaking... grammatically incorrect" and uses "England" where
I'd have expected "Britain".  ("In England some words ending with a
hard 'g' sound have a silent 'ue' appended to them, such as 'catalogue'
or 'epilogue'."  I don't like that "or", by the way.)  Devotees of
Skitt's Law, I can save you some work: search for "effect".

Signature

Jerry Friedman

UC - 02 Nov 2006 17:33 GMT
> > http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> split infinitives that I know about.  (Speaking of which, it also says
> ending a sentence with a preposition is "considered weak".)

Pre-positions are supposed to go BEFORE the word to which they are
applied:

to Ipswich, etc.

> Indeed it's a rich source of English-usage material.  The two biggest
> surprises for me were that the author says "The government are" is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> or 'epilogue'."  I don't like that "or", by the way.)  Devotees of
> Skitt's Law, I can save you some work: search for "effect".
Django Cat - 02 Nov 2006 18:50 GMT
> > > http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> to Ipswich, etc.

Get away!
ceceliaarmstrong@yahoo.com - 02 Nov 2006 22:54 GMT
UC ha escrito:

> Pre-positions are supposed to go BEFORE the word to which they are
> applied:
>
> to Ipswich, etc.

Uh-huh.  Because "pre" is Latin for "before," yes?

Dominus tecum.

Cece
UC - 02 Nov 2006 22:59 GMT
ceceliaarmstr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> UC ha escrito:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Uh-huh.  Because "pre" is Latin for "before," yes?

Right.

Pre-position.

'Preposterous' means putting what normally comes after, before.

> Dominus tecum.
>
> Cece
Robert Bannister - 03 Nov 2006 01:08 GMT
> Indeed it's a rich source of English-usage material.  The two biggest
> surprises for me were that the author says "The government are" is
> "strictly speaking... grammatically incorrect" and uses "England" where
> I'd have expected "Britain".  ("In England some words ending with a
> hard 'g' sound have a silent 'ue' appended to them, such as 'catalogue'
> or 'epilogue'."

I'd bet that even Americans don't spell "tongue" without the ue.
Signature

Rob Bannister

Skitt - 02 Nov 2006 01:29 GMT
> http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> splitting infinitives in sentences where the negative is used: Hamlet
> says 'to be or not to be', rather than 'to be or to not be'."

Well, if I must, I must --

==================
The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English.  1996.

1. Grammar: Traditional Rules, Word Order, Agreement, and Case

§ 59. split infinitive

To boldly go where no one has gone before. This phrase, so familiar to Star
Trek fans, presents us with the dilemma of the split infinitive-an
infinitive that has an adverb between the to and the verb. Split infinitives
have been condemned as ungrammatical for nearly 200 years, but it is hard to
see what exactly is wrong with saying to boldly go. Its meaning is clear. It
has a strong rhythm than reinforces the meaning. And rearranging the phrase
only makes it less effective. We may also want to go boldly where no one has
gone before, but it doesn't sound as exciting. And certainly no one wants to
go where no one has gone before boldly. That is a different voyage entirely.

 In fact, the split infinitive is distinguished both by its length of use
and the greatness of its users. People have been splitting infinitives since
the 14th century, and some of the most noteworthy splitters include John
Donne, Samuel Pepys, Daniel Defoe, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Johnson,
William Wordsworth, Abraham Lincoln, George Eliot, Henry James, and Willa
Cather.

 The only rationale for condemning the construction is based on a false
analogy with Latin. The thinking is that because the Latin infinitive is a
single word, the English infinitive should be treated as if it were a single
unit. But English is not Latin, and people split infinitives all the time
without giving it a thought. Should we condemn compound infinitives, such as
I want to go and have a look, simply because the infinitive have has no to
next to it?

 Still, if you dislike infinitives split by adverbs, you can often avoid
them without difficulty. You can easily recast the sentence To better
understand the miners' plight, he went to live in their district as To
understand the miners' plight better, he went to live in their district. But
as we saw with the Star Trek example, you must be careful not to ruin the
rhythm of the sentence or create an unintended meaning by displacing an
adverb.

 If you plan on keeping your split infinitives, you should be wary of
constructions that have more than one word between to and the verb. The
Usage Panel splits down the middle on the one-adverb split infinitive. Fifty
percent accept it in the sentence The move allowed the company to legally
pay the employees severance payments that in some cases exceeded $30,000.
But only 23 percent of the panel accepts the split infinitive in this
sentence: We are seeking a plan to gradually, systematically, and
economically relieve the burden. The panel is more tolerant of constructions
in which the intervening words are intrinsic to the sense of the verb.
Eighty-seven percent of the panel accepts the sentence We expect our output
to more than double in a year.

 Remember too that infinitive phrases in which the adverb precedes a
participle, such as to be rapidly rising, to be clearly understood, and to
have been ruefully mistaken, are not split and should be acceptable to
everybody. And don't be deceived by to-constructions with a gerund, as in He
is committed to laboriously assembling all of the facts of the case. Here
what is split is not an infinitive but a prepositional phrase.

The American Heritage® Book of English Usage. Copyright © 1996 by Houghton
Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
======================
Signature

Skitt (in Hayward, California)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/

Robert Bannister - 03 Nov 2006 01:14 GMT
> Well, if I must, I must --
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> § 59. split infinitive

I must say that that is well written. I would find it very hard to
disagree with any of it. I hope those who wish to at any price and in
any place split infinitives will take the caveats to heart.
Signature

Rob Bannister

Eric Walker - 02 Nov 2006 01:39 GMT
> . . . The split infinitive . . .

Get a life.
Ray O'Hara - 02 Nov 2006 02:44 GMT
> http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> splitting infinitives in sentences where the negative is used: Hamlet
> says 'to be or not to be', rather than 'to be or to not be'."

The "prohibition" against split infitives is a strawman debate started by
latin influenced anal-retentive fools such as yourself.
Jeffrey Turner - 02 Nov 2006 03:47 GMT
> http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/music/studentinfo/guides/language.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> splitting infinitives in sentences where the negative is used: Hamlet
> says 'to be or not to be', rather than 'to be or to not be'."

To willfully and arbitrarily split an infinitive is something one should
take great pains to not do.  As for ending a sentence a preposition
with, Yoda, I'll leave that for someone else to deal with.

--Jeff

Signature

Often war is waged only in order to
show valor; thus an inner dignity is
ascribed to war itself, and even some
philosophers have praised it as an
ennoblement of humanity, forgetting the
pronouncement of the Greek who said,
"War is an evil in as much as it produces
more wicked men than it takes away."
--Immanuel Kant

dontbother - 02 Nov 2006 04:21 GMT
> UC wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> To willfully and arbitrarily split an infinitive is something
> one should take great pains to not do.

"not to do" sounds much better here.

> As for ending a sentence
> a preposition with, Yoda, I'll leave that for someone else to
> deal with.

"with" is not a preposition here but a particle attached to the
phrasal verb "deal with".

Signature

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Eric Walker - 02 Nov 2006 04:50 GMT
[...]

> "with" is not a preposition here but a particle attached to the
> phrasal verb "deal with".

I haven't had time to start a thread on that, but I wonder in passing
if there is *any* case of a verb followed by a preposition (or two)
that could *not* be considered at least a nonce phrasal verb.
dontbother - 02 Nov 2006 05:07 GMT
> dontbother wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> preposition (or two) that could *not* be considered at least a
> nonce phrasal verb.

I haven't done any serious research into phrasal verbs, but there
seems to be a significant difference between "to look up her
telephone number" and "to look up her skirt". If "look" is replaced
by "stare" or "gaze" or "peek", the meaning of "look" is essentially
retained in the latter verb phrase, but it becomes nonsense in the
former. That seems to be a significant test for phrasal verbs: they
make no sense without all of their components. I can't imagine a
context, other than computer language, where "go to" would be a
phrasal verb. Most instances of V+Prep are, undoubtedly, not phrasal
verbs.

Signature

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
Native speaker of American English; posting from Taiwan.
Unmunged email: /at/easypeasy.com
"Impatience is the mother of misery."

Robert Bannister - 03 Nov 2006 01:20 GMT
> [...]
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> if there is *any* case of a verb followed by a preposition (or two)
> that could *not* be considered at least a nonce phrasal verb.

I would have said that it includes a huge number of subordinate clauses
and questions:
Who are you speaking to?    The woman (who) you were speaking to.
Which table is it on?        The table that it's (lying) on.

I can't see that these are phrasal verbs.

Signature

Rob Bannister

 
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