Tense Help Please

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Robert Binder - 03 Nov 2006 10:28 GMT

I've been trying to decide which, if either, of these sentences is
correct or preferrable:

"Jim, having found himself unable to perform the task himself, asked
Bob to help."

"Jim, finding himself unable to perform the task himself, asked Bob
for help."

Thanks.

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Matthew Huntbach - 03 Nov 2006 10:36 GMT

On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Robert wrote:

> I've been trying to decide which, if either, of these sentences is
> correct or preferrable:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "Jim, finding himself unable to perform the task himself, asked Bob
> for help."

There is a slight difference in meaning. The second sentence implies
Jim asked Bob immediately he found he could not perform the task.
The first sentence could mean there was some time between Jim finding
he could not perform the task and his asking Bob to help.

Matthew Huntbach

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Mark Brader - 03 Nov 2006 23:33 GMT

Robert Binder asks about:

> > "Jim, having found himself unable to perform the task himself, asked
> > Bob to help."
> >
> > "Jim, finding himself unable to perform the task himself, asked Bob
> > for help."

First, they're both correct and more or less equivalent. On thinking
about it, I would prefer a shorter version such as "Jim found he could
not perform the task himself [see below], and asked..."

Matthew Huntbach:

> There is a slight difference in meaning. The second sentence implies
> Jim asked Bob immediately he found he could not perform the task.
> The first sentence could mean there was some time between Jim finding
> he could not perform the task and his asking Bob to help.

Yeah, that's true. But it's only a mild suggestion.

(Matthew's use of "immediately" as a conjunction is British. We'd say
"immediately after" or some similar expression.)

I'm wondering about the second "himself", though: if Bob said yes, did
he then do the task alone, or did he and Jim do it together? If the
idea is that they'd do it together, then I would prefer "perform the
task alone" or "perform the task by himself", rather than "perform the
task himself". If Jim asked Bob to replace him, them "himself" is
correct, but not really needed.

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Mark Brader, Toronto | "The problem is that tax lawyers are
msb@vex.net | amazingly creative." -- David Sherman

My text in this article is in the public domain.

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Marius Hancu - 04 Nov 2006 00:06 GMT

> > > "Jim, having found himself unable to perform the task himself, asked
> > > Bob to help."
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Yeah, that's true. But it's only a mild suggestion.

I agree with that too.

Marius Hancu

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Adrian Bailey - 03 Nov 2006 20:58 GMT

Or, in my case, "Tense; help, please."

Adrian

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Eric Walker - 04 Nov 2006 00:02 GMT

[In both cases, the second "himself" would be much better as "alone" or
some such word.]

This is a matter of the under-discussed property of verbs called
"aspect". There are two aspects: terminate, which presents the action
as a completed whole, and progressive, which presents it as going on
(at the time).

"I worked in the garden yesterday." = terminate
"I was working in the garden yesterday." = progressive

In the examples posted, Sentence #1 exhibits terminate aspect, while
sentence #2 indicates progressive aspect.

The distinction in meaning in that particular pair would
be--roughly--this:

"Jim, having found himself unable to perform the task himself, asked
Bob to help." : Jim tried the task, realized he couldn't accomplish it,
considered his options, then went to Bob for help.

"Jim, finding himself unable to perform the task himself, asked Bob for
help." : Jim, in the midst of the process of realizing he could not
finish the job, saw Bob and asked him to pitch in.

In other words, the progressive "finding" suggests immediacy, a
recourse to Bob's aid right in the midst of trying and failing alone,
whereas the terminate "having found" suggests a definite pause between
the (completed act of) realizing and the subsequent asking for help.

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Robert Binder - 05 Nov 2006 12:39 GMT

Thanks a lot for all the great analyses, the last one in particular,
since it really got to the point.

Bob

>> I've been trying to decide which, if either, of these sentences is
>> correct or preferrable:
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>whereas the terminate "having found" suggests a definite pause between
>the (completed act of) realizing and the subsequent asking for help.

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006

Tense Help Please