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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006He got a massage from a male prostitute
The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he "got a massage from a male prostitute." It isn't clear to me why the masseur's other job was mentioned, as if it had some bearing on the issue. Would they have mentioned if the evangelist had used the services of some car salesman who was a male prostitute? What if he had gotten a haircut from a male prostitute? How about if the evangelist got a massage from a bank robber, or an embezzler? What if some old lady gets a massage from a male prostitute. Should she care? I'm sure the radio wasn't implying that the masseur gave some service during the massage that involved his other job, or the radio would cetainly have made that clear. These are serious, objective journalists, after all. So, I don't know why they mentioned the two things together. It's not logical. >The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its >inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >made that clear. These are serious, objective journalists, after all. So, I >don't know why they mentioned the two things together. It's not logical. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4309575.html  SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL "Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> cited: > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4309575.html Yeah, I know all that. I was talking about what the radio said. >"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> cited: > >> http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4309575.html > >Yeah, I know all that. I was talking about what the radio said. What did you expect? There were no charges brought. There has not been a trial. How specific could the radio report be without setting themselves up for a lawsuit? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > What did you expect? There were no charges brought. There has not > been a trial. How specific could the radio report be without setting > themselves up for a lawsuit? You can't think of any way they could be less specific? I can. I can think of MILLIONS of ways they could have been less specific. Oh, maybe you meant MORE specific. Why would they want to do that? More specific about what? I still don't get it. Do you mean they were IMPLYING something? No, no. That couldn't be. That's not journalism. >> What did you expect? There were no charges brought. There has not >> been a trial. How specific could the radio report be without setting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >specific about what? I still don't get it. Do you mean they were IMPLYING >something? No, no. That couldn't be. That's not journalism. You said this was said on a "talk radio" show. Do you consider talk radio to be a form of journalism? SignatureTony Cooper Orlando, FL > You said this was said on a "talk radio" show. Do you consider talk > radio to be a form of journalism? Not a talk radio show, a talk station; that is, an all-news station. It was being presented as news. >Not a talk radio show, a talk station; that is, an all-news station. It was >being presented as news. That's a rather curious gloss on "talk station". In the business, "news" and "talk" are in opposition; a station that does both in approximately equal measure would be described as "news-talk". (The more-general category of "spoken word" as exists in Britain does not exist here,[1] but would be recognized.) -GAWollman [1] That's perhaps a bit too strong. Certainly there are stations which broadcast primarily spoken-word programming, but advertisers have not felt the need for a broader category. Anecdotally, there isn't a huge amount of overlap among "news" and "talk" audiences, and most sports formats emphasize talk. There isn't anything remotely comparable in the U.S. to Radio 4. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > about some evangelical > operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he "got a > massage from a male prostitute." Google-News is making this its lead-off story, with 1,494 different news links on it. None of the links that I've seen say that Haggard "got busted" -- in AmE, that's slang for "got arrested." Maybe the radio station figues that Haggard's resignation under exposure on this story is "getting busted." If so, I submit that's not the usual understanding of the phrase in the US (maybe in the UK). Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >> about some evangelical >> operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego At the levels of vulnerability to "bustedness" I am familiar with, "busted" means "caught at", "exposed as", "revealed in the act of". "Arrested" in my state involves a physical restraint. "Busted" need not have that physical dimension, although it may. Of course I could be wrong, and if someone could show that's the case, I'd be busted. Hola ~~~ Frank S ~~~ San Diego > At the levels of vulnerability to "bustedness" I am familiar with, > "busted" means "caught at", "exposed as", "revealed in the act of". NOAD2 (2d ed) lists two meanings for "bust, v.," the first, with several variations, relating to a breaking, splitting, or bursting; " the second meaning has three subsenses: (1) a raid or search of premises where illegal activity is suspected; (2) an arrest; and (3) a demotion to a lesser rank or position in a military or other organization. I don't see that Haggard's resignation fits very well into any of these senses because he denies criminal charges and was not involuntarily removed from his top position -- had the organization asked him to step down, then I agree the situation would come within one or more of the subsenses given. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >> about some evangelical >> operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he "got [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > story is "getting busted." If so, I submit that's not the usual > understanding of the phrase in the US (maybe in the UK). It's only used in the UK in the ways that we understand it to be used in the US. But that doesn't automatically mean "arrested". I recollect the film American Beauty where a woman drives through a fast food joint with her lover and her husband is serving. The husband's cow-orker tells her "You are SO busted". Urban Dictionary knows all about it. I would say I've heard it far more often (in US movies and TV shows) in this sense of "caught out doing something you shouldn't" than the "arrested" version. I've heard the latter meaning more commonly in a noun - eg "a drugs bust". SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > I would say I've heard it far more often (in US movies and TV shows) in this > sense of "caught out doing something you shouldn't" than the "arrested" > version. I replied to this viewpoint under Frank Ess's posting above -- NOAD2 doesn't have the "getting caught" subsense of "bust, v." When a wild horse is broken, it is common western US slang to use the word "busted," and it's not a big stretch to extend that sort of sense to a person in high position who gets humiliated -- I don't have a major shauri with your or Frank's posting. > When a wild > horse is broken, it is common western US slang to use the word > "busted," and it's not a big stretch to extend that sort of sense to a > person in high position who gets humiliated This update supports the position that Haggard was indeed "busted" from his high position: [excerpt from NYTimes' article:] In his letter, Haggard said "the accusations made against me are not all true but enough of them are that I was appropriately removed from his [sic] church leadership position." [end excerpt] http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/05wire-haggard.html?hp&ex=1162789200&en=59ca8 04685c884f4&ei=5094&partner=homepage > I've heard the latter meaning more commonly in a noun - eg "a drugs > bust". That would be "a _drug_ bust" in my corner of the world. What about elsewhere? SignatureMaria > That would be "a _drug_ bust" in my corner of the world. "Drug bust" is the example that NOAD2 uses for the sense "(1) a raid or search of premises where illegal activity is suspected;" in the US military, "busted" would mean "demoted in rank;" if a non-drug-user, non-military person were to say "I got busted," then I submit most USers would understand the person was admitting to having been arrested. Haggard was not involved in a drug bust per the NOAD2 definition. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >> That would be "a _drug_ bust" in my corner of the world. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > arrested. Haggard was not involved in a drug bust per the NOAD2 > definition. True. I was just commenting on John Dean's use of (BrE) "drugs bust" as compared to the (AmE) "drug bust." SignatureMaria > >> That would be "a _drug_ bust" in my corner of the world. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > True. I was just commenting on John Dean's use of (BrE) "drugs bust" as > compared to the (AmE) "drug bust." Ah... my bad. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > Google-News is making this its lead-off story, with 1,494 different > news links on it. The number of news links to this story (still Google-News lead story) is now up to 1,795. The Guardian's article about Rev. Ted Haggard has at the end: [excerpt] Backstory Jimmy Lee Swaggart: The pioneer of televangelism established the Assemblies of God in the 1970s. He admitted sinning against God and his wife on live TV in February 1988 after a prostitute claimed he visited her. Jim Bakker: The former Assemblies of God minister and his wife had one of the most successful televangelist programmes in the 80s and lived a life of luxury until it was revealed he had paid his secretary to keep quiet about their sexual liaison. He divorced and was jailed. Jim Whittington: In 1992 the head of the Fountain of Life TV was sentenced to 10 years for fraud after a widow was coerced into donating her home to his ministry. Whittington served two years. Luc Torres [end excerpt] [http://www.guardian.co.uk/midterms2006/story/0,,1939439,00.html] A little Googling revealed that "Luc Torres" is the Guardian's writer who provided the backstory, so his name is given as a way to clarify that Suzanne Goldenberg, who wrote the main article, didn't pen that appendage. On first reading, one might think that there was an Evangelist leader named Torres who had a scandal. One might add to the foregoing list of four of these scandalized Evangelists in the last 18 years, (5) Jerry Falwell and (6) Pat Robertson for recommending an illegal assassination of Venezula's Hugo Chavez, and (7) Reverend Jerry Vines, a past president of the Southern Baptist Convention (with strong ties to Shrub) for calling the Muslim prophet Muhammad a "demon-obsessed pedophile." [http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/spingola/061015] Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego >The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless [...] > >I'm sure the radio wasn't implying that the masseur gave some service during >the massage that involved his other job, or the radio would cetainly have >made that clear. These are serious, objective journalists, after all. So, I >don't know why they mentioned the two things together. It's not logical. Talk radio (or talk TV for that matter) is not journalism. The honest practitioners will tell you that themselves. (Hell, even the dishonest practitioners will often tell you that!) Talk radio is entertainment, not news. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness In our last episode, <xDS2h.69$sw6.64@trndny08>, the lovely and talented The Grammer Genious broadcast on alt.usage.english: > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its > inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical > operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he "got a > massage from a male prostitute." > It isn't clear to me why the masseur's other job was mentioned, Because the male prostitute alleges the reverend engaged his services as a prostitute (and also as a supplier of methamphetamine). > as if it had some bearing on the issue. Would they have mentioned if the > evangelist had used the services of some car salesman who was a male > prostitute? If the car salesmans had claimed the transaction was for sex. > What if he had gotten a haircut from a male prostitute? You seem to have come into the story late. First the prostitute says the evangelist engages his services *as* *a* *prostitute* several times over several months and also that the evangelist bought methamphetamine from him. That is the allegation that is made. Now the evangelist *admits* he bought the methamphetamine, but claims that he discarded it and did not use it. And he admits he engaged the man's services, but claims he did so for a massage, not for sex. > How about if the evangelist got a massage from a bank robber, or an > embezzler? > What if some old lady gets a massage from a male prostitute. Should she > care? > I'm sure the radio wasn't implying that the masseur gave some service during > the massage that involved his other job, No. They were telling you what the evangelist admits to. The prostitute claims he was engaged for sex several times over a period of months. There seem to be some voice mail message which if proven genuine should cast some light on whose version is nearer the truth. > or the radio would cetainly have > made that clear. These are serious, objective journalists, after all. So, I > don't know why they mentioned the two things together. It's not logical. It is perfectly logical considering the prostitute's claim. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> <http://myspace.com/larseighner> Writing became such a process of discovery that I couldn't wait to get to work in the morning: I wanted to know what I was going to say. --Sharon O'Brien > That is the allegation that is made. Now the evangelist *admits* > he bought the methamphetamine, but claims that he discarded it > and did not use it. And he admits he engaged the man's services, > but claims he did so for a massage, not for sex. These are the same twits that made such a to-do about Clinton's not inhaling. Compare: I smoked marijuana but didn't inhale vs: I paid for meth several times, but threw it away; I paid for a male prostitute but didn't have sex with him. >> That is the allegation that is made. Now the evangelist *admits* >> he bought the methamphetamine, but claims that he discarded it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > vs: I paid for meth several times, but threw it away; I paid for a > male prostitute but didn't have sex with him. Isn't "massage", as used in small ads and the like, usually a euphemism for sexual services of some kind? Alan Jones Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net>, the prostitute who solicits custom by knocking on doors, puked: > I paid for a male prostitute but didn't have sex with him. Kinky. Signaturealt.usenet.kooks - Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker: September 2005 and April 2006 "K-Man's particular genius, however, lies not merely in his humour, but his ability to make posters who had previously seemed reasonably well-balanced turn into foaming, frothing, death threat-uttering maniacs" - Snarky, Demon Lord of Confusion "If the truth be known, the only reason Osama is still on the loose is because he himself hasn't fallen victim to the K-Man." - Wog George Thou most unjust knave. Fiend, thou torments me ere I come to hell. >> <...> >> It isn't clear to me why the masseur's other job was mentioned, > > Because the male prostitute alleges the reverend engaged his > services as a prostitute (and also as a supplier of methamphetamine). > <...> But that's not what the radio said, so it's not relevant to the point. In fact, the point is that that was not mentioned or made relevant to what was said. That's the point. > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its > inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical > operative who got busted, it seems, because, the radio said, he "got a > massage from a male prostitute." I read fifteen posts in this thread before I realized you had said "mAssage." I thought it was "mEssage." Even when you went on to speak of masseurs. My font. About thirty years ago, I came across a very nice advertisement for an answering machine that said it "gave massages." I clipped it out and sent it to the New Yorker. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its > > inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > answering machine that said it "gave massages." I clipped it out and > sent it to the New Yorker. And now, here is a massage from the Swedish Prime Minister. SignatureDavid ===== > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > And now, here is a massage from the Swedish Prime Minister. Marshall McLuhan, famous for his slogan "The medium is the message" published a book _The Medium is the Massage_" in 1967. SignatureBob Lieblich "The Medium" is on NBC TV > Marshall McLuhan, famous for his slogan "The medium is the message" > published a book _The Medium is the Massage_" in 1967. A question and answer from: http://www.marshallmcluhan.com/faqs.html Why is the title of the book "The medium is the massage" and not "The medium is the message"? Actually, the title was a mistake. When the book came back from the typesetter's, it had on the cover "Massage" as it still does. The title was supposed to have read "The Medium is the Message" but the typesetter had made an error. When Marshall McLuhan saw the typo he exclaimed, "Leave it alone! It's great, and right on target!" Now there are possible four readings for the last word of the title, all of them accurate: "Message" and "Mess Age," "Massage" and "Mass Age." SignatureMaria, who vaguely remembers this message/massage thing being discussed way back when. > > Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> had it: [...] > > > I read fifteen posts in this thread before I realized you had said > > > "mAssage." I thought it was "mEssage." Even when you went on to speak of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Marshall McLuhan, famous for his slogan "The medium is the message" > published a book _The Medium is the Massage_" in 1967. I used to own a copy: a PC volunteer gave me his book locker. Massé is awfully messé: It brains the stars. SignatureMike. >I read fifteen posts in this thread before I realized you had said >"mAssage." I thought it was "mEssage." Even when you went on to speak of >masseurs. ObAUE: It seems like the common British pronunciation is /'m&s,saZ/, at least based on what I hear on the Wuld Suvice; here we would say /m@'sAZ/. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is > its inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > male prostitute? What if he had gotten a haircut from a male > prostitute? Your looking at it the wrong way. The question is whether they would have mentioned the occupation if he had gotten a massage from a car salesman or from a barber. The man's job was "prostitute", not "masseur". [snip] > I'm sure the radio wasn't implying that the masseur gave some > service during the massage that involved his other job, or the radio > would cetainly have made that clear. These are serious, objective > journalists, after all. So, I don't know why they mentioned the two > things together. It's not logical. Did they fail to mention that the prostitute in question "claims Haggard paid him for sex nearly every month for three years"? according to the Chron story Tony quoted. The point of the story isn't "He got a 'massage' <wink><wink>", it's "Yeah, the guy's a prostitute, but according to the reverend, he only gave him a massage". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If I am ever forced to make a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |choice between learning and using Palo Alto, CA 94304 |win32, or leaving the computer |industry, let me just say it was kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |nice knowing all of you. :-) (650)857-7572 | Randal Schwartz http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> had it: > > I'm sure the radio wasn't implying that the masseur gave some > > service during the massage that involved his other job, or the radio [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > prostitute, but according to the reverend, he only gave him a > massage". The man was on the radio in the UK this morning, repeating this claim. The pastor bloke claims that he bought some methamphetamine from him, but then threw it away. SignatureDavid ===== >> The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is >> its inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > prostitute, but according to the reverend, he only gave him a > massage". Maybe the massage had a "happy ending". SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/ > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its > inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > used the services of some car salesman who was a male prostitute? What if he > had gotten a haircut from a male prostitute? Does it make any difference to you if a prostitute gives you a massage or sells you a car? or cuts your hair, but not like Delillah? > What if some old lady gets a massage from a male prostitute. Should she > care? Probably, if she's only old, but not yet dead. > The talk station on the car radio today was all breathless (as is its > inexplicable wont about just about everything) about some evangelical [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > used the services of some car salesman who was a male prostitute? What if he > had gotten a haircut from a male prostitute? Because massage is a polite term for what he really recieved from the "male prostitute". It was the male prostitute who exposed{he he} the evangilist and he was very unsubtle about what "service" he provided. [...] > It was the male prostitute who exposed{he he} the evangilist and he > was very unsubtle about what "service" he provided. If that had been Aimee and Tallulah, would it have been "{hur hur}"? > [...] > > It was the male prostitute who exposed{he he} the evangilist and he > > was very unsubtle about what "service" he provided. > > If that had been Aimee and Tallulah, would it have been "{hur hur}"? ;-) |
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