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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2006Word Required
In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank of England note? Any suggestions would be gratefully received, as I have been wracking my brains with this for the last few days! > In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With > Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank of > England note? The history of the gold standard tells us this. When a currency was linked to a precious metal (gold or silver) the banknote promised to provide a determinate amoug of gold. Nowadays, all we can get for a ten-pound note is two notes for five pounds.  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With >> Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > all we can get for a ten-pound note is two notes > for five pounds. Thanks for your help Don. >> In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things >> With Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > provide a determinate amoug of gold. Nowadays, all we can get for a > ten-pound note is two notes for five pounds. Which boils down to saying that the world economy is based on an abstraction which can't be defined by reference to any concrete object. The entire structure is being held up by faith alone. If we all stopped believing that these pieces of paper meant anything, the economy would collapse. To make matters worse, the growth of credit (together with other hard-to-define factors) means that most of the "money" in circulation isn't even backed up by coins or pieces of paper. It exists only as bit patterns in computers. There is something weird going on here. The gold standard disappeared at roughly the same time as huge numbers of people, at least in the technologically advanced countries, stopped taking religion seriously. There seems to some sort of "conservation of superstition" law lurking behind this. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. > In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With > Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank of > England note? > > Any suggestions would be gratefully received, as I have been wracking my > brains with this for the last few days! covenant > covenant Thanks. I'll try that. >> covenant > >Thanks. I'll try that. You might receive the objection that a covenant is an agreement between two parties. "pledge" would work. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > You might receive the objection that a covenant is an agreement > between two parties. > > "pledge" would work. Hmm.. as a theologian in the Judeao-Christian tradition I would have to disagree. OTOH one might argue 'One party agrees to accept this tatty piece of paper instead of some gold, the other agrees to redeem the piece of paper for some real money. In its original meaning, anyway. >> You might receive the objection that a covenant is an agreement >> between two parties. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > piece of paper instead of some gold, the other agrees to redeem the > piece of paper for some real money. In its original meaning, anyway. Like "Here's a rainbow. From now on, I shall continue to crap on you as usual, but you can look at the pretty colours". SignatureRob Bannister >> You might receive the objection that a covenant is an agreement >> between two parties. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >piece of paper instead of some gold, the other agrees to redeem the >piece of paper for some real money. In its original meaning, anyway. This is not really a theological matter. Assorted dictionaries consulted via OneLook.com agree that one definition of "pledge" (noun) is (variously worded): a solemn promise or undertaking. a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear. A solemn binding promise to do, give, or refrain from doing something To me, the promise on a Bank of England Note fits nicely into that definition. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > This is not really a theological matter. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > To me, the promise on a Bank of England Note fits nicely into that > definition. Sorry, should have snipped differently. Of course pledge would work just as well as covenant I might even prefer it. I was disagreeing with the putative objection in the first sentence. >> This is not really a theological matter. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >as well as covenant I might even prefer it. I was disagreeing with the >putative objection in the first sentence. I understand. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With > Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank of > England note? > > Any suggestions would be gratefully received, as I have been wracking my > brains with this for the last few days! Hmm. This kind of thing brings out my essential simple-mindedness. You feel it isn't quite an illocutionary act? It seems suitably performative to me. In a way, it's also a true/false statement, of course: maybe the Bank does promise, and maybe the Bank doesn't promise. In that sense it seems a little different from "I name this child John" -- is that the difficulty? I'm not sure where to place "I swear allegiance to the Queen". (And assuming it's true, what exactly _is_ five pounds? But I don't suppose you want to chase that Will-o'-the-Wisp just now, if ever.) SignatureMike. > Hmm. This kind of thing brings out my essential simple-mindedness. You > feel it isn't quite an illocutionary act? It seems suitably [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > difficulty? I'm not sure where to place "I swear allegiance to the > Queen". That's what I'm thinking.........sort of:-) It's more of a proposal rather than a promise in the real sense. On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote > In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do > Things With Words", what word would you use to describe 'the > promise' found on a Bank of England note? > > Any suggestions would be gratefully received, as I have been > wracking my brains with this for the last few days! As far as I can tell, none of the resident pedants have oy'd"wracking my brains". So I will: Oy! SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So I will: Oy! I was rather proud of having restrained myself. But, to consider the usage, while I like the elegance of your apostrophism, surely the verb must have a capital? I don't think we "oy" in these parts, so much as "Oy". I'm less confident in a feeling that the exclamation mark should perhaps also be an inseparable part of the derived forms: "An Oy"? "An Oy!"? "I Oy", "thou Oyest", etc? Or "I Oy!", "thou Oy!est", etc?.. But I'd accept a majority ruling that inclusion of the exclamation mark would demand nested quotation marks: " An 'Oy!' ", "Dost 'Oy!' me, boy?"; but it could get tricky with " 'Oy!'est thou me, sirrah?" There was that scary moment in Shakespeare: "Do you 'Oy!' me, sir?" "I 'Oy!' you not, sir. But, sir, I 'Oy!' " _Romeo and Juliet_, I think it was. SignatureMike. On 05 Nov 2006, Mike Lyle wrote >> On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > surely the verb must have a capital? I don't think we "oy" in > these parts, so much as "Oy". Fair 'nuff. > I'm less confident in a feeling that the exclamation mark should > perhaps also be an inseparable part of the derived forms: "An > Oy"? "An Oy!"? "I Oy", "thou Oyest", etc? Or "I Oy!", "thou > Oy!est", etc?.. I hope not -- it rather rules out the possibility of Oying someone in a non-exclamatory fashion, which seems unseemly. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van >> On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > verb must have a capital? I don't think we "oy" in these parts, so > much as "Oy". I had always assumed that the capital "O" was attributable to the fact that the word is almost always seen as the first (and typically only) word in the sentence. If we verb the word, as we surely may, then I'd accept "oy" as the infinitive and "oyed" - sans the now-rare apostrophe - in the past tense. In a double "oy", must the second one be upper-cased? Oy, oy, oy, oy. Canta y no llores ; porque cantado se allegran, Cielito Lindo, los corazones. SignaturePeter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet address could disappear at any time. >On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >So I will: Oy! But is it Oy!able, strictly pedantically speaking? (OK, writing.) http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861714197/wrack.html transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle wracked, present participle wrack·ing, 3rd person present singular wracks) Definition: wreck or be wrecked: to wreck something, or be wrecked Normally we would ask the poster what was intended, but with Derek White having racked, wracked or raked his brain he might not be in a state to tell us. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 05 Nov 2006, Peter Duncanson wrote >> On 05 Nov 2006, Derek White wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > But is it Oy!able, strictly pedantically speaking? (OK, > writing.) -snip definition- I think it is, as I think it's a set phrase rather than a variable one. > Normally we would ask the poster what was intended, but with > Derek White having racked, wracked or raked his brain he might > not be in a state to tell us. AUE has that effect, sometimes. SignatureCheers, Harvey Canadian and British English, indiscriminately mixed For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van > > Normally we would ask the poster what was intended, but with > > Derek White having racked, wracked or raked his brain he might > > not be in a state to tell us. > > AUE has that effect, sometimes. Whacks my brain frequently. Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego > In terms of the argument found in J.L. Austin's "How To Do Things With > Words", what word would you use to describe 'the promise' found on a Bank > of England note? > > Any suggestions would be gratefully received, as I have been wracking my > brains with this for the last few days! Guarantee. |
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